I came across this article that EGW wrote, and it struck me that this was related to the conclusion of the Investigate Judgement, how most in the world would carelessly get stuck in their rejection and refuse to go forward with the light being shown by Christ.....

In February, 1845, I had a vision of events commencing with the Midnight Cry.

I saw a throne and on it sat the Father and the Son. I gazed on Jesus' countenance and admired his lovely person. The Father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered him.

I asked Jesus if his Father had a form like himself. He said he had, but I could not behold it, for said he if you should once behold the glory of his person you would cease to exist.

Before the throne I saw the Advent people, the church, and the world. I saw a company, bowed down before the throne, deeply interested, while the most of them stood up disinterested and careless. Those who were bowed before the throne would offer up their prayers and look to Jesus; then he would look to his Father, and appeared to be pleading with Him.

A light would come from the Father to the Son, and from the Son to the praying company. Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from the Father to the Son, and from the Son it waved over the people before the throne. But few would receive this great light; many came out from under it and immediately resisted it; others were careless and did not cherish the light, and it moved off from them; some cherished it, and went and
bowed down with the little praying company. This company all received the light, and rejoiced in it, as their countenances shone with its glory.

And I saw the Father rise from the throne, and in a flaming Chariot go into the Holy of Holies, within the veil, and did sit. There I saw thrones that I had never seen before. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him; and I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after he arose, and they were left in perfect darkness.

Those who rose up when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm and we heard his lovely voice saying, "Wait here--I am going to my Father to receive the Kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to myself."
And I saw a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, and Angels were all around it as it came where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the Holiest where the Father sat.

There I beheld Jesus, as He was standing before the Father, a great High Priest. On the hem of His garment was a bell and pomegranate.

Then Jesus shew me the difference between faith and feeling. And I saw those who rose up with Jesus send up their faith to Him in the Holiest, and pray--my Father give us thy Spirit. Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost.

In the breath was light, power, and much love, joy and peace.


Then I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it.— Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God; I saw them look up to the throne and pray, my Father give us thy Spirit; then Satan would breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy and peace.

Satan's object was to keep them deceived, and to draw back and deceive God's children. I saw one after another leave the company who were praying to Jesus in the Holiest, and go and join those before the throne, and they at once received the unholy influence of Satan.

About four months since I had a vision of events all in the future. I saw the time of trouble, such as never was. Jesus told me it was the time of Jacob's trouble, and that we should be delivered out of it by the voice of God.

Then I saw the four angels cease to hold the four winds. And I saw famine, pestilence and sword--nation rose against nation, and the whole world was in confusion. Then we cried to God day and night for deliverance, until we began to hear the bells on Jesus' garment.

And I saw Jesus rise up in the Holiest, and as he came out we heard the tinkling of the bells and knew that our High Priest was coming out. Then we heard the voice of God which shook the heavens and the earth, and gave the 144,000 the day and hour of Jesus coming. Then the saints were free, united, and full of the glory of God, for he has turned their captivity.

And I saw a flaming cloud come where Jesus' stood. Then Jesus laid off his priestly garment and put on his Kingly robe, and took his place on the cloud which carried him to the East, where it first appeared to the saints on earth— a small black cloud which was the sign of the Son of Man.

While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the East, which took a number of days, the synagogue of Satan worshipped at the saint's feet.....Early Writings, pp. 55, 56

How does everyone see this EGW vision?

This is a very important vision with warnings to all Christians. Satan is doing his part to the very end. How?

EGW sees in this vision the Midnight Cry (the 1844 movement) and events related to it (all this was in the past and present at the time she had the vision). Then she says, "About four months since I had a vision of events all in the future." Then she narrates future events beginning with the time of trouble. So, in the first part she is speaking about the beginning of the investigative judgment, not about its end.

Can you explain more Rick?

Thank you for sharing that Brother. The Midnight Cry parallels the Loud Cry of Rev. 18 which closes the Investigative Judgment and also parallels Daniel 7 and 8. Notice in the vision from EW above that when the Father enters the Most Holy Place she sees thrones she has “never seen before.” The reason they are new is that they are newly placed – judgment is about to issue in favor of the saints who are being martyred and trampled by the little horn and we know from scripture this is at the close of the IJ. In Daniel 7 it says:

Adventist doctrine places this scene of the opening of the judgment in 1844 and this is correct, but the primary application is at the close of the IJ when the little horn resumes it’s powers and speaks great words and thinks to change times and laws. Daniel 7 does not end in 1798 or 1844. It clearly takes us down to the very end of the Great Controversy and close of the Investigative Judgment. Praise the Lord we’ve been given a clear road map for the extremely dangerous and trying times ahead.

The reason she sees thrones she has “never seen before” is that this vision occurs only about two months after her first vision, and it reveals to her the opening of the IJ. Notice that both Christ and the Father are not in the Most Holy Place at the beginning of the vision. Do you think they will leave the Most Holy Place and go back there again?

No, you're right that Christ's ministry has been in the Holiest since 1844. We know He will not leave the Holiest until His work there is finished because He says to the church of Philadelphia that He has opened a door, the door of the Holiest, that no man can shut. In my view, the Father sits on a throne and Christ as high priest ministers standing before it. (Although in Psalms the Father says to Christ "Sit at my right hand until I make thine enemies a stool for thy feet". So we have both pictures of Christ - as mediator and king.) But in Revelation 4 and 5 and Daniel 7 we see multiple thrones - 24 in Revelation and an unspecified number in Daniel 7. These I believe are the ones that are occupied by the 24 elders who participate in the Investigative Judgment and at the end of IJ issue concurring judgment in favor of the saints. There is more in Daniel 7 and other places that supports that view. I'll comment on those texts when I have time - soon hopefully.

Rick, regarding your observation, here are a few more thoughts: The passage from Daniel 7 below, indicates the little horn power will be speaking “great things” at the time that the thrones are set in place. (Verses 8 and 9). In 1844 the little horn was quite mute, so the passage doesn’t appear to apply primarily there. In 1844 Christ did come to the Ancient of Days and the IJ began but to me it seems that the multiple thrones mentioned here and in Revelation 4 and 5 have a future application when the IJ enters its final phase. What is that final phase? When the little horn resumes it’s powers and again speaks “great things”.

The idea of a two phased IJ with the first starting when Christ entered the Holiest in 1844 then later the final intense/global phase when He’s joined by the 24 elders is a new thought to me. I’m still studying it out but what I said regarding the timing and phases of the IJ above in verses 8 to 11 seems to be reinforced by the interpretation Daniel is given by one of the holy ones in verses 25 to 27: We have the same picture of the little horn speaking great words against the Most High and oppressing the saints up until the close of the IJ when judgment issues in favor of the saints. Verse 26 says the judgment shall sit at that time when oppression by the little horn is renewed. This must be after 1844. This phase begins when the daily is finally removed or taken away and ends with the abomination of desolation when Babylon receives the plagues at the close of the IJ and the Kingdoms of earth are given to Christ and ‘the people of the saints of the Most High’.

To me it’s an awesome thought that not only angels will be active participants in the final drama but that God will be joined by the 24 elders (I'll comment on who they are in my next post) in His care and final work of judgment for the saints. So Rick, in my view, what Ellen White does with the Midnight Cry and IJ is the same thing Daniel does with IJ in Daniel 7, 8 and 11 and 12. They both combine events that cover the time from 1844 to the very end in the same way Christ combined the final elements of human history with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Regarding the 24 elders, these have an important role in end time events because they're mentioned many times in Revelation in the final scenes of human history. The 24 elders are not mentioned directly in any other scripture. They only appear in Revelation but their presence is throughout the book. They're introduced at that time just before the Lamb takes the seven sealed book from the hand of the Father. Ellen White indicates that Revelation is both a sealed and opened book. In saying this she indicates that parts of it are open but parts remain sealed. Revelation 4 and 5 indicate that the 24 elders come to the forefront when the final unsealing of the scroll occurs.

More on this later, Lord willing. For now here are all the passages in Revelation where the elders appear:

The two phases of Investigative Judgment can also be delineated in terms of the latter rain - pre-latter rain phase and latter rain phase. From 1844 until now we’ve been in the pre-latter rain corporately but when the latter rain is given, then the final events will be rapid. Above I suggested that Revelation 4 and 5 indicate that the 24 elders come to the forefront when the final unsealing of the scroll occurs. But the unsealing of the scroll, Revelation 6, the final ripening or sealing of the 12 spiritual tribes composing the church, Revelation 7, the final warning message sounding in the trumpets, the final warning message of the Mighty Angel and the Two Witnesses, Revelation 10 and 11, the final warning message of the three angel’s and amplified in the Loud Cry, Revelation 14 and 18 all point to the mighty work of God under the latter rain.

In the picture of the sealing of the 12 tribes we have a picture of the ripening of the harvest under the latter rain. The sealing and the ripening are pictures of the same event - the establishment of the New Covenant in the hearts and minds of the saints. The 24 crowned elders are prominent here because the elders are those who have been through the same process and obtained victory during their lifetime and therefore with Christ know how to encourage and strengthen the children of God in their hour of peril.

The two however, are related, it is only the length of the IJ which is in question. But this part, "Then I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it.— Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God; I saw them look up to the throne and pray, my Father give us thy Spirit; then Satan would breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy and peace...Satan's object was to keep them deceived, and to draw back and deceive God's children. I saw one after another leave the company who were praying to Jesus in the Holiest, and go and join those before the throne, and they at once received the unholy influence of Satan..." has been in effect and the results we are seeing now. In my opinion Ellen White felt it was but a short time from that to the end thus she puts them together, but we shall see.

Spiritual formation and the occult clothed in Christian dress is an ancient phenomena but will become acute at the end. Should we be surprised that the intensity of all these things is increasing inside and outside of the church? We can't let it become our focus.

That said, sorry my friend for monopolizing your thread. I thought you were referring to some of the things I mentioned. Now that I've said them though, if you're inclined to answer here or in another/new thread, what are your thoughts on the timing of the opening of the books in Daniel 7:8-11 and 25-27 and my suggestion that these passages apply secondarily to 1844 but primarily to the future.

Don't worry its a difficult subject, very hard to get a handle on. So its good to get input and see what we can learn and what understanding God has for us.

If you are speaking of "former rain" and "latter rain" in terms of a Pentecostal experience, you are really hoping in vain. The agricultural imagery has been lost on our highly urban civilization. Here is how James put it (James 5:7-8):

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#1. Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

#2. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

#3. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

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In other words, it is not the rain that is the principal subject of the allusion, but the HOPE of the harvest. Just as how the farmer prays for and waits patiently for the rain, so we ought to patiently hope for the coming of the Lord in redemption. The "rain" is actually the Lord, and the harvest our salvation.

The rain will come! It will come! And the harvest will be bountiful! Indeed, in modern parlance, the same can be rendered, "My Dad will come! He will come! And I will finally get my iPad!"

Speaking to an agrarian culture, "the rain" is the LORD. But we abusing agricultural imagery by misappropriating it to Pentecostal experiences.