HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,619
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 21
kland 9
Daryl 4
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
dedication
dedication
Canada
Posts: 6,438
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
5 registered members (dedication, Karen Y, Nadi, 2 invisible), 3,409 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Did the ancient Mystery Religions get picked up as 'Tradition'? [Re: Rick H] #155271
08/21/13 04:40 PM
08/21/13 04:40 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
Lets take a look at the next connection, the worship of Mithra and Anahita, the virgin mother of Mithra.

".. Dr. Badi Badiozamani says that a "person" named "Mehr" or Mithra was "born of a virgin named Nahid Anahita ('immaculate')" and that "the worship of Mithra and Anahita, the virgin mother of Mithra, was well-known in the Achaemenian period [558-330 BCE]..." (Badiozamani, 96) Philosophy professor Dr. Mohammed Ali Amir-Moezzi states: "In Mithraism, as in popular Mazdaism, Anahid, the mother of Mithra, is a virgin." (Amir-Moezzi, 78-79) Comparing the rock birth with that of the virgin mother, Dr. Amir-Moezzi also says:...so there is analogy between the rock, a symbol of incorruptibility, giving birth to the Iranian god and the mother of that (same) one, Anahid, eternally virgin and young.

In Mithraic Iconography and Ideology (78), Dr. Leroy A. Campbell calls Anahita the "great goddess of virgin purity," and Religious History professor Dr. Claas J. Bleeker says, "In the Avestan religion she is the typical virgin." (Bleeker (1963), 100)

One modern writer ("Mithraism and Christianity") portrays the Mithra myth thus:

According to Persian mythology, Mithras was born of a virgin given the title "Mother of God."

The Parthian princes of Armenia were all priests of Mithras, and an entire district of this land was dedicated to the Virgin Mother Anahita. Many Mithraeums, or Mithraic temples, were built in Armenia, which remained one of the last strongholds of Mithraism. The largest near-eastern Mithraeum was built in western Persia at Kangavar, dedicated to "Anahita, the Immaculate Virgin Mother of the Lord Mithras."....Moreover, concerning Mithra Schaff-Herzog says, "The Achaemenidae worshiped him as making the great triad with Ahura and Anahita." Ostensibly, this "triad" was the same as God the Father, the Virgin and Jesus, which would tend to confirm the assertion that Anahita was Mithra's virgin mother. That Anahita was closely associated with Mithra at least five centuries before the common era is evident from the equation made by Herodotus (1.131) in naming "Mitra" as the Persian counterpart of the Near and Middle Eastern goddesses Alilat and Mylitta. (de Jong, 269-270)

Moreover, Mithra's prototype, the Indian Mitra, was likewise born of a female, Aditi, the "mother of the gods," the inviolable or virgin dawn. Hence, we would expect an earlier form of Mithra also to possess this virgin-mother motif, which seems to have been lost or deliberately severed in the all-male Roman Mithraism.

Early Church Fathers on Mithraism

Mithraism was so popular in the Roman Empire and so similar in important aspects to Christianity that several Church fathers were compelled to address it, disparagingly of course. These fathers included Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Julius Firmicus Maternus and Augustine, all of whom attributed these striking correspondences to the prescient devil. In other words, anticipating Christ, the devil set about to fool the Pagans by imitating the coming messiah. In reality, the testimony of these Church fathers confirms that these various motifs, characteristics, traditions and myths predated Christianity.

Concerning this "devil did it" argument, in The Worship of Nature Sir James G. Frazer remarks:

If the Mithraic mysteries were indeed a Satanic copy of a divine original, we are driven to conclude that Christianity took a leaf out of the devil's book when it fixed the birth of the Saviour on the twenty-fifth of December; for there can be no doubt that the day in question was celebrated as the birthday of the Sun by the heathen before the Church, by an afterthought, arbitrarily transferred the Nativity of its Founder from the sixth of January to the twenty-fifth of December.

In response to a question about Tertullian's discussion of the purported Mithraic forehead mark, Dr. Richard Gordon says:

In general, in studying Mithras, and the other Greco-oriental mystery cults, it is good practice to steer clear of all information provided by Christian writers: they are not "sources," they are violent apologists, and one does best not to believe a word they say, however tempting it is to supplement our ignorance with such stuff. (Gordon, "FAQ")....It is obvious from the remarks of the Church fathers and from the literary and archaeological record that Mithraism in some form preceded Christianity by centuries. The fact is that there is no Christian archaeological evidence earlier than the earliest Roman Mithraic archaeological evidence and that the preponderance of evidence points to Christianity being formulated during the second century, not based on a "historical" personage of the early first century. As one important example, the canonical gospels as we have them do not show up clearly in the literary record until the end of the second century.

Mithra's pre-Christian roots are attested in the Vedic and Avestan texts, as well as by historians such as Herodotus (1.131) and Xenophon (Cyrop. viii. 5, 53 and c. iv. 24), among others. Nor is it likely that the Roman Mithras is not essentially the same as the Indian sun god Mitra and the Persian, Armenian and Phrygian Mithra in his major attributes, as well as some of his most pertinent rites.

Moreover, it is erroneously asserted that because Mithraism was a "mystery cult" it did not leave any written record. In reality, much evidence of Mithra worship has been destroyed, including not only monuments, iconography and other artifacts, but also numerous books by ancient authors. The existence of written evidence is indicated by the Egyptian cloth "manuscript" from the first century BCE called, "Mummy Funerary Inscription of the Priest of Mithras, Ornouphios, Son fo Artemis" or MS 247.

"Regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first."...Nevertheless, the god Mithra was revered for centuries prior to the Christian era, and the germane elements of Mithraism are known to have preceded Christianity by hundreds to thousands of years. Thus, regardless of attempts to make Mithraism the plagiarist of Christianity, the fact will remain that Mithraism was first, well established in the West decades before Christianity had any significant influence...."

"Gerald Berry, Religions of the World

"Mithra or Mitra is...worshipped as Itu (Mitra-Mitu-Itu) in every house of the Hindus in India. Itu (derivative of Mitu or Mitra) is considered as the Vegetation-deity. This Mithra or Mitra (Sun-God) is believed to be a Mediator between God and man, between the Sky and the Earth. It is said that Mithra or [the] Sun took birth in the Cave on December 25th. It is also the belief of the Christian world that Mithra or the Sun-God was born of [a] Virgin. He travelled far and wide. He has twelve satellites, which are taken as the Sun's disciples.... [The Sun's] great festivals are observed in the Winter Solstice and the Vernal Equinox—Christmas and Easter. His symbol is the Lamb...."
http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Last edited by Rick H; 08/21/13 04:53 PM.
Re: Did the ancient Mystery Religions get picked up as 'Tradition'? [Re: Rick H] #155297
08/22/13 10:48 AM
08/22/13 10:48 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
Now although Constantine did enact laws in connection to Sunday, the system of worship which came all the way from Ancient Babylon was already there in the pagan religion of Rome, he just facilitated the combining of it with Christianity. Constantine did not create or bring in the rites, ceremonies, festivals or system of worship, it already existed and was slowly being finding its way into the church at Rome as pagans were allow into the church unconverted. Now it was being instituted beyond the boundaries of Rome as the pagan worship of Mithra was spread throughout the Roman Empire. Mithra or Mithras, as he began to be known in the Greco-Roman world—was called "the divine Sun, the Unconquered Sun."

"..Mithra in the Roman Empire

Subsequent to the military campaign of Alexander the Great in the fourth century BCE, Mithra became the "favorite deity" of Asia Minor. Christian writers Dr. Samuel Jackson and George W. Gilmore, editors of The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (VII, 420), remark:
It was probably at this period, 250-100 b.c., that the Mithraic system of ritual and doctrine took the form which it afterward retained. Here it came into contact with the mysteries, of which there were many varieties, among which the most notable were those of Cybele.

According to the Roman historian Plutarch (c. 46-120 AD/CE), Mithraism began to be absorbed by the Romans during Pompey's military campaign against Cilician pirates around 70 BCE. The religion eventually migrated from Asia Minor through the soldiers, many of whom had been citizens of the region, into Rome and the far reaches of the Empire. Syrian merchants brought Mithraism to the major cities, such as Alexandria, Rome and Carthage, while captives carried it to the countryside. By the third century AD/CE Mithraism and its mysteries permeated the Roman Empire...."

"It reached a peak during the second and third centuries, before largely expiring at the end of the fourth/beginning of fifth centuries. Among its members during this period were emperors, politicians and businessmen."

So by the time of Emperor Constantine, we see it reaching beyond the common people and soldiers and to the upper classes and even the Roman Emperors..
http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

In A.D. 330 Emperor Constantine set up Constantinople as his capital and pagan sun worship was already replacing the true worship of God in Rome, and next Constantine as Roman Emperor, enacted laws on the civil observance of Sunday. He held the title Pontifex Maximus which was the title of the high priest of paganism. So its clear that Constantine's form of Christianity was actually a modified version of mystery religion. The Sunday law of Constantine had nothing to do with his 'conversion' to Christianity, it was just a political move in keeping with the 'Byzantine' mode as placing oneself in the most advantageous position.

Interestingly, Constantine mad the laws of the observance of Sunday, and forbade the public desecration of Sunday, not from anything based on the Christianity or its beliefs but clearly from paganism as he used the heathen title, Dies Solis. This familiar to all the people of the Roman Empire, so that the law was as applicable to the worshippers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, but it also affect the worship of and applied to the Christians. There is no reference whatsoever in his law either to the fourth commandment or to the resurrection of Christ, and yet we see no direct confrontation to the Constantine's Law as one would expect from Christians, so pagan worship must have already entered the church and Rome was still seen as the center even with Constantinople as the new capital.

Now lets look closer at the sun worship aspect..

"...In Babylon, Mithra was identified with Shamash, the sun god, and he is also Bel, the Mesopotamian and Canaanite/ Phoenician solar deity, who is likewise Marduk, the Babylonian god who represented both the planet Jupiter and the sun. According to Pseudo-Clement of Rome's debate with Appion (Homily VI, ch. X), Mithra is also Apollo...

As Francis Legge says in Forerunners and Rivals in Christianity:
The Vedic Mitra was originally the material sun itself, and the many hundreds of votive inscriptions left by the worshippers of Mithras to "the unconquered Sun Mithras," to the unconquered solar divinity (numen) Mithras, to the unconquered Sun-God (deus) Mithra, and allusions in them to priests (sacerdotes), worshippers (cultores), and temples (templum) of the same deity leave no doubt open that he was in Roman times a sun-god. (Legge, II, 240)"http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Constantine worshipped all the gods especially the god of the sun Mithra/Apollo. The Mystery of Iniquity of paganism that had been at work since the time of Babel and here it manifested itself on a large scale throughout the Roman Empire backed by its laws.

This same system of worship, characterized by the shrouding of truth in secrecy and the manipulation of the truth in order to achieve it’s ends, reached a level in which it had the power of the Emperor to combine paganism with Christianity. So we see it partially accomplished through the proclamation 321 A.D. of Constantine, stating:" All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon The Venerable Day of the Sun", but there was still the full implementation of this system of worship which did meet resistance and so had to be brought in slowly, and put in place by church councils not the emperor.

Shortly after he made his sun-day proclamation, Constantine ordered his wife and eldest son murdered and had a bronze statue of himself set atop a tall column as Apollo, the sun god.

Last edited by Rick H; 08/22/13 11:34 AM.
Re: Did the ancient Mystery Religions get picked up as 'Tradition'? [Re: Rick H] #155300
08/22/13 11:40 AM
08/22/13 11:40 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
Now lets focus on what was entering the church of Rome, we find the festivals were one of the first things used to bring paganism into the church. The Christians at Rome had been faithful at first as they were persecuted for many years but as they became accepted and persecution stop, another challenge faced them. In Rome the old beliefs and festivals were still followed by the Romans and many Christian and leaders began to fall into its lure and didnt see a problem with it. The first issue began when disputes arose as the bishop of Rome allowed the celebration of the Pasch or Passover to continue till the following Sunday so Christians could also celebrate Spring Equinox festival as they had done before. Now the danger of allowing the Christians to join in pagan solistice celebrations was overlooked as the new pagan 'converts' joined the church and swelled the numbers under the bishop of Rome. But other Christian leaders saw the danger of worship according to the old pagan festivals and tried to stop it in what came to be known as Paschal/Easter controversies. The first recorded such controversy came to be known as the Quartodeciman controversy.

Eusebius of Caesarea (Church History, V, xxiii) wrote:
"A question of no small importance arose at that time [i.e. the time of Pope Victor I, about A.D. 190]. The dioceses of all Asia, according to an ancient tradition, held that the fourteenth day of the moon [of Nisan], on which day the Jews were commanded to sacrifice the lamb, should always be observed as the feast of the life-giving pasch (epi tes tou soteriou Pascha heortes), contending that the fast ought to end on that day, whatever day of the week it might happen to be. However it was not the custom of the churches in the rest of the world to end it at this point, as they observed the practice, which from Apostolic tradition has prevailed to the present time, of terminating the fast on no other day than on that of the Resurrection of our Saviour." So the bishop of Rome began the practice of fixing the celebration of Passover for Christians on Sunday and it spread through the old areas of the Empire.Polycarp the disciple of John the Apostle who was now the bishop of Smyrna, came and confronted Anicetus, the Bishop of Rome who had allow the changes in the Passover and other changes to bring in converts.According to Irenaeus, around the 150s or 160, Polycarp visited Rome to discuss the differences that existed between the other centers of Christianity in Asia and Rome "with regard to certain things" and especially about the time of the Pasch or Passover which in Rome were now the Easter festivals. Irenaeus says that Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna, observed the fourteenth day of the moon, whatever day of the week that might be, following therein the tradition which he derived from John the Apostle. Irenaeus said that on certain things the two bishops speedily came to an understanding, while as to the time of the Pasch and the change to Easter, each adhered to his own custom. Polycarp following the eastern practice of celebrating Passover on the 14th of Nisan, the day of the Jewish Passover, regardless of what day of the week it fell while the bishop of Rome let it be observed on Sunday.

So the Bishop of Rome ignore the warning and continued to allow the Passover to be observed on Sunday at the pagan Spring Equinox festival connected to the goddess Eostre the "goddess of sunrise" so this is how the Pasch was change to the festival of Easter. But not only was it just the festival as more pagan converts came in, they were allowed to worship on the pagan day of worship which they were used to, while Christians continued to worship on Sabbath. When Polycarp was martyrd for standing against the pagan worship, the Smyrnaean letter known as the Martyrdom of Polycarp states that Polycarp was taken on the day of the Sabbath and killed on the Great Sabbath, so we see that he observed the Sabbath.Scholar William Cave wrote, "...the Sabbath or Saturday (for so the word sabbatum is constantly used in the writings of the fathers, when speaking of it as it relates to Christians) was held by them in great veneration, and especially in the Eastern parts honoured with all the public solemnities of religion. But in the Western part of the Empire, Sunday had entered in through the back door celebration of the Pasch or Passover.

But it gets even worse, as later, one of the bishops of Rome, around 195, which some call Pope Victor I attempted to excommunicate the Christians who continued correctly to celebrate the the Pasch or Passover, turning the divergence of practice into a full-blown ecclesiastical controversy. According to Eusebius, synods were convened and letters were exchanged, but in the end, having over-stepped his mark Pope Victor was rebuked and backed down.

Eusebius of Caesarea (Church History, V, xxiv) notes:
"But this did not please all the bishops. And they besought him to consider the things of peace, and of neighborly unity and love. Words of theirs are extant, sharply rebuking Victor. Among them was Irenæus, who, sending letters in the name of the brethren in Gaul over whom he presided, maintained that the mystery of the resurrection of the Lord should be observed only on the Lord’s day. He fittingly admonishes Victor that he should not cut off whole churches of God which observed the tradition of an ancient custom."

So now you see where the 'Lord’s day' comes in and it wasnt from the disciple of John the Apostle or John himself.

Re: Did the ancient Mystery Religions get picked up as 'Tradition'? [Re: Rick H] #155343
08/23/13 07:15 AM
08/23/13 07:15 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
Now Sunday was not the only thing that was brought in from the pagan ancient religions, it was just a one aspect. So we see many rites, rituals, sacraments and practices that got picked up and brought into the church, and even festivals and ceremonies coming in slowly as pagans and Christian worship was combined. So lets see if we can find further connections to Mithra or Mithras.

We see from history that the Vatican was built upon the grounds previously devoted to the worship of Mithra (600 B.C.). The Christian hierarchy basically brought in the Mithraic version of worship, and virtually all of the elements of Orthodox Christian rituals, from miter, wafer, water baptism, alter, and doxology, were adopted from the Mithra and earlier pagan mystery religions, so it would be stretch of the imagination to think it was all by accident.

God in His Commandments clearly says not to have other gods, or graven images, and not to worship them...

Exodus 20:3-5
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The worship of Mithra or Mithras and the 'traditions' of it in the rites, rituals, sacraments and practices from the ancient Babylonian system of worship to other gods and has essentially been maintained even till today, and was and still is hidden as mysterys or ceremonies. The ancient Chaldeans worshipped male and female gods representing the sun god and there were largely three aspects in this system of sun worship, representing the father, mother, and the son and their rituals are of the sun god descended from Mithras, Baal, and for the Greeks Apollo.

We find the Persians worshipped the sun god Baal under the name of "Mithra" or "Mithras," and we also find the god Mithras or Baal or Bel or Merodach, Ninus the son, who was also worshipped as Tammuz, and the female goddess Rhea who was also worshipped as Ishtar, Astarte, or Beltis representing the mother. She was also referred to as the ‘Queen of Heaven’, and according to Persian mythology, Mithras was born of a virgin given the title 'Mother of God'. The Mithra religion also had a Eucharist and Mithra had his principal festival on what was essentianlly Easter, at which time he was resurrected. Mithra was born on December 25th as an offspring of the Sun. Mithras followers held to the belief that he was the source of life, and could also redeem the souls of the dead into the better world. The ceremonies of Mithras included a form of baptism, a anointing, and a sacred meal of bread and water, with a consecrated wine.

So we know the Roman Catholic church brought in Mary as the 'Queen of Heaven' and its well documented, but much more beliefs were also brought in to the church and it was related to Mitras, here is more on the connection and notice the source:

As early as 67 b. c., Mithraism, the sun cult of Persia, was being introduced into Italy by Cicilian pirates captured by Pompey. ("Plu­tarch's Lives," Pompey, chap. 21.)1 Its principal missionaries, however, were the merchants, traders, and soldiers returning from campaigns in the Orient. In the first century there were Mithraic centers at Aquinum and Aquilea.

"It is certain at least that the Fifteenth [Legion], which served in the Parthian wars of Nero and was transferred by Vespasian to the Danube, brought the cult of Mithras to its camp at Carnuntum in 71 A. D."—Hastings' Encyclo­pedia of Religion and Ethics, art. "Mitliraism."

In the reign of Antonius Pius (138-161 A. D.) the Roman people were well acquainted with the Mithraic mysteries. Commodus (180-192 A. D.) was personally initiated into them. Mithra finally became the "Invincible Sun" of the armies, the "Protector and Companion" of the emperors, and his cult the official religion of the Roman state. It was the great pagan rival to Christianity until the conversion of Constan­tine (312 A. D.). In the meantime the Persian religion and philosophy gave a strong coloring to the Gnostic melting pot of Eastern and West­ern thought, particularly at Alexandria, Egypt, the great center of science and learning in those days.

In Mithraism "the seven planets, which pre­side over the days of the week and which were the object of a very special worship," formed a prominent part, according to Dr. Franz Cumont, the celebrated authority on that cult. He also says:

"He [the worshiper] should also recite the traditional prayers, for example, in honor of the planets on their sacred dYs, and carry out the sacrifices, of which the character seems to have been very variable." (See Dr. Curaont's article, "Mithra," in the Dictionaire des An­tiquites Grecques et Romaines [Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities], Paris, 1877.)

The learned doctor says in another work:

"Each day of the week the planet to which the day was sacred was invoked in a fixed spot in the crypt; and Sunday, over which the sun presided, was especially holy."—"The Mysteries of Mithraisni," p. 197, Chicago, 1903.

The Encyclopedia Britannica (14th edition) not only mentions "the sanctification of Sunday and of the 25th of December" as special fea­tures of Mithraism, but adds: "Each day of the week was marked by the adoration of a special planet, the sun being the most sacred of all." —Art., "Mithras."

And the Chambers' Encyclopedia (1925 edi­tion) says:

"Parallels to Christianity in Mithraic legend, in Mithraic ceremony, and in Mithraic belief will have been apparent, and other resem­blances, as the sanctification of Sunday and of the 25th of December, the birthday of Mithra." —Art. "Mithra."

...Justin Martyr addressed his "First Apology" to the heathen Romans in the person of the emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161 A. D.), and shows that they were well acquainted with the Mithraic cult:

"Which thing indeed the demons have taught to be done out of mimicry in the mysteries and initiatory rites of Mithra. For in these a cup of water and bread are set out, with the addi­tion of certain words, in the sacrifice or act of worship of the person about to be initiated, a thing which ye either know by personal expe­rience or may learn by inquiry."—Chapter 66.8

Justin was writing about the Lord's supper, and adds:

"On that called the day of the sun an assem­bly is had of all those dwelling in the cities and rural districts. . . . And the day of the sun we make an assembling of all together, because it is the first day, on which God, having changed the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour rose from the dead on the same day. For on the [day] before that of Saturn they crucified Him; and on that after the [day] of Saturn, which is the day of the sun, having appeared to His apostles and dis­ciples, He taught these things just as we have submitted to you for consideration."—"First Apology," chap. 67.8

Although Justin refers twice to Mithraism in his "Dialogue With Trypho the Jew" (chaps. 70, 78), he never speaks of the days by their planetary titles. There he repeatedly calls the seventh day "the Sabbath;" and of the first day he wrote: "For the first day of the week,' hav­ing continued the first of all the days of the cycle, is called the eighth,' and remains being the first."'

What are we to gather from this? It must be that in each case Justin adapted his language to the class of readers whom he addressed, and that to the pagans the terms "day of the sun" and "day of Saturn" were familiar designations of the first and the seventh day of the week. And what could the term "day of the sun" mean, unless that day was dedicated to the solar god?

https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1935/12/pagan-week,-day-of-the-sun,-and-calendar

Last edited by Rick H; 08/23/13 07:20 AM.
Re: Did the ancient Mystery Religions get picked up as 'Tradition'? [Re: Rick H] #155344
08/23/13 07:38 AM
08/23/13 07:38 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
Now look at what I came across which gives us more on the connection:

Irenaeus condemned the gnostic Marcus who had been acquainted with the heretic Valentinus. Irenaeus also condemned Marcus for coming up with some type of a "eucharistic-like" mystery, which may be similar to that still practiced by the Roman and Orthodox Churches. Irenaeus wrote the following:

1. In the first book, which immediately precedes this, exposing "knowledge falsely so called," I showed thee, my very dear friend, that the whole system devised, in many and opposite ways, by those who are of the school of Valentinus, was false and baseless. I also set forth the tenets of their predecessors, proving that they not only differed among themselves, but had long previously swerved from the truth itself. I further explained, with all diligence, the doctrine as well as practice of Marcus the magician, since he, too, belongs to these persons.(Irenaeus. Adversus haereses, Book II, Preface, Verse 1)

1. But there is another among these heretics, Marcus by name, who boasts himself as having improved upon his master...

2. Pretending to consecrate cups mixed with wine, and protracting to great length the word of invocation, he contrives to give them a purple and reddish colour, so that Charis, who is one of those that are superior to all things, should be thought to drop her own blood into that cup through means of his invocation, and that thus those who are present should be led to rejoice to taste of that cup, in order that, by so doing, the Charis, who is set forth by this magician, may also flow into them. Again, handing mixed cups to the women, he bids them consecrate these in his presence.(Irenaeus. Adversus haereses, Book I, Chapter 13)

Here is a larger list of some non-original doctrines that mainstream "Christianity" "share" with Mithraism:

Birthdays
Christmas (and the birth in a cave)
Confirmation (within Catholicism mainly)
Dress of the clergy (mainly the Roman and Orthodox clergy)
Father being a name for the clergy (mainly the Roman and Orthodox clergy)
Heaven as a reward of the saved
Idols and icons
Immortality of the soul
Liturgy (mainly parts of the Roman and Orthodox liturgy)
Military service
Mystical Eucharist
Monks
A Roman pope (the Roman Church only, with some similarities within the Orthodox groups)
Seven sacraments
Sunday
A form of Trinitarianism

The Catholic Encyclopedia reported:

Mithraism A pagan religion consisting mainly of the cult of the ancient Indo-Iranian Sun-god Mithra. It entered Europe from Asia Minor after Alexander's conquest, spread rapidly over the whole Roman Empire at the beginning of our era...The origin of the cult of Mithra dates from the time that the Hindus and Persians still formed one people, for the god Mithra occurs in the religion and the sacred books of both races , i.e. in the Vedas and in the Avesta. In Vedic hymns he is frequently mentioned and is nearly always coupled with Varuna, but beyond the bare occurrence of his name, little is known of him (Rigveda, III, 59). It is conjectured (Oldenberg, "Die "Religion des Veda," Berlin , 1894) that Mithra was the rising sun, Varuna the setting sun; or, Mithra, the sky at daytime, Varuna, the sky at night; or, the one the sun, the other the moon. In any case Mithra is a light or solar deity of some sort

Helios Mithras is one god...Sunday was kept holy in honour of Mithra...The 25 December was observed as his birthday, the natalis invicti, the rebirth of the winter-sun, unconquered by the rigours of the season...

Its foremost apostles were the legionaries; hence it spread first to the frontier stations of the Roman army.

Mithraism was emphatically a soldier religion...

(Arendzen J.P. Transcribed by John Looby. Mithraism. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume X. Published 1911. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, October 1, 1911. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York )

...it is easy to understand that many of the emperors yielded to the delusion that they could unite all their subjects in the adoration of the one sun-god who combined in himself the Father-God of the Christians and the much-worshipped Mithras; thus the empire could be founded anew on unity of religion. Even Constantine, as will be shown farther on, for a time cherished this mistaken belief…it was especially in the western part of the empire that the veneration of Mithras predominated. Would it not be possible to gather all the different nationalities around his altars? Could not Sol Deus Invictus, to whom even Constantine dedicated his coins for a long time, or Sol Mithras Deus Invictus, venerated by Diocletian and Galerius, become the supreme god of the empire? Constantine may have pondered over this. Nor had he absolutely rejected the thought even after a miraculous event had strongly influenced him in favour of the God of the Christians…As pontifex maximus he watched over the heathen worship and protected its rights…It is true that the believers in Mithras also observed Sunday as well as Christmas. Consequently Constantine speaks not of the day of the Lord, but of the everlasting day of the sun.

(Herbermann, Charles, and Georg Grupp. Constantine the Great. The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 4. Nihil Obstat. Remy Lafort, Censor. Imprimatur. +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1908. 1 Sept. 2008 <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04295c.htm>)

The Catholic scholar Aiken noted:

To attain to a life of happiness in heaven, the rites proper to Mithraism were held to be of exceptional efficacy and importance...Of the Mithraic priesthood, but little is known. The higher grades of initiates seem each to have had their respective priests, the highest in dignity being the priests of the grade of Fathers. They were presided over by a high priest, styled in the inscriptions Father of Fathers, Pater Patrum, or Pater Patratus.

...and if my memory still serves me right, Mithra there puts a mark on the forehead of his soldiers. (Aiken C.F., Mithraism, p. 264)

The 20th and 19th century writers Manly Hall and Albert Pike wrote respectively:

Candidates who successfully passed the Mithraic initiations were called Lions and were marked upon their foreheads with the Egyptian cross. (Manly P. Hall Manly P. Hall (Author), J. Augustus Knapp (Illustrator) The Secret Teachings of all Ages. Originally published 1926, reprint Wilder Publications, 2009, p. 45)

Mithras signed his soldiers on the forehead with a Cross. X is the mark of 600, the mysterious cycle of the Incarnations. (Pike A. Morals and dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. First published 1871. Forgotten Books, 1962, p. 246)

The Catholic scholar Arendzen noted:

Mithraism...reached its zenith during the third century, and vanished under the repressive regulations of Theodosius at the end of the fourth century...There were seven degrees of initiation into the mithraic mysteries…The fathers conducted the worship. The chief of the fathers, a sort of pope, who always lived at Rome, was called "Pater Patrum" or Pater Patratus." (Arendzen, J.P. Mithraism.)

http://www.cogwriter.com/christianity-mithraism.htm

Last edited by Rick H; 08/23/13 07:47 AM.
Re: Did the ancient Mystery Religions get picked up as 'Tradition'? [Re: Rick H] #155345
08/23/13 07:52 AM
08/23/13 07:52 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
Next we look at Infant Baptism, there is no scriptural evidence sanctioning or for the authorization of Infant Baptism, Christ says nothing about Infant Baptism. The Apostles say nothing about Infant Baptism. The early Church did not have Infant Baptism so were did it come from, again we find the connection to mystery religions.

"The sudden rise of Infant Baptism is not hard to account for if we look for a moment the mystic rites of the mystery religions. In the mystery religions of antiquity in Egypt, Chaldea and Babylon, we learn that the power of the priests was claimed so great that they held the eternal destiny of human souls in their grasp. Infants who died without the mystic rites of the mystery religions having been performed over them, were denied entrance into the "Elysian Fields," the paradise of the Pagans. The system of infant baptism from the earliest time was an initiation ceremony of the mystery religions and cults and interestingly, infants in paganism have Original Sin..

The Elysian Fields (Ancient Greek: &#7976;&#955;&#973;&#963;&#953;&#959;&#957; &#960;&#949;&#948;&#943;&#959;&#957;, &#274;lýsion pedíon) was a conception of the afterlife that evolved and maintained by certain Greek religious and philosophical sects and cults. In mythology, Aeneas, like Heracles and Odysseus before him, travels to the underworld and we read of the visit of Aeneas to the infernal regions. There he found the unhappy souls of infants who had died without receiving the rites of paganism, “before the gates the cries of babes new-born, whom fate had from their tender mothers torn, assault his ears”..cambridgecitycoc.org.uk/OriginalSin.doc&#8206;

The earliest mention of infant baptism was by Tertullian around A.D. 220. Tertullian mentions the practice in conjunction with sponsors who would aid in the child’s spiritual training (as Godparents today). But overwhelmingly, the doctrine of baptism during the first three centuries of the church was adult believers’ baptism only. Infants simply cannot comply: infants cannot be converted, infants cannot repent and believe and in reality, do not need repentance, having not yet committed any actual transgression....Infant baptism is not a Scriptural doctrine. It is not found anywhere in the Bible. There is not one example in the Bible of one single baby ever being baptized and it’s origins are largely pagan." http://www.wisconsinchristiannews.com/view.php?sid=4125

Here we have a good explanation by Walter Veith...

Baptism is a symbol of our willingness to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a conscious decision and proclamation.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Mark 16:16).
Infants cannot make a conscious decision. Therefore, to baptize them defeats the whole purpose of the ceremony. Also, infant baptism is never taught in the Scriptures.

The doctrine of infant baptism is of pagan origin and was brought into the Church by Roman Catholicism. As with most Catholic doctrines, infant baptism has its origins in the Babylonian mysteries....In Babylon, new birth was conferred by baptism of infants. European pagans sprinkled their newborns or immersed them, and to this day the "holy water" used for baptism in some circles is still prepared according to the pagan custom of plunging a torch from the altar into the water. Having introduced infant baptism, the Roman Catholic Church was opposed to adults being baptized and even issued the following decree: "Let him be accursed who says adults must be baptized."i

In Acts 8, the King James Version gives a full description of the baptism of the eunuch. The eunuch was a high official from Ethiopia (Acts 8:27) and had come to worship in Jerusalem. He was reading the book of Isaiah when Philip was sent to him and explained to him the passages pertaining to the Messiah.
When he had grasped their significance and recognized Jesus Christ in these verses, he was ready to be baptized (Acts 8:27-35). The KJV continues with the following verses:

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water. And the eunuch said, 'See, here is water. What doth hinder me to be baptized?' And Philip said, 'If thou believest with all thine heart, thou may.' And he answered and said, 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.' And he commanded the chariot to stand still. And they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him (Acts 8:36-38).

The question of the eunuch, "What doth hinder me to be baptized?" is answered by Phillip in verse 37:

If thou believeth with all thine heart, thou mayest.

Modern translations leave out verse 37, and the eunuch is thus denied his answer. It is stated in these translations that certain manuscripts do no contain this verse, and therefore the verse should not be included.

However, these modern translations do not do justice to the chiastic structure of the passage in question. The passage is written in question-answer chiasm and leaving out verse 37 would destroy this literary structure.

Omission of the verse is however convenient for those who propagate infant baptism, because the condition for baptism mentioned in this verse—believing with one’s whole heart—cannot be met by infants. Both infant baptism and baptism by pouring have been introduced by Roman Catholicism into the Church, but they find no support in the Scriptures..."

http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception-infant-baptism-believer

Last edited by Rick H; 08/23/13 07:54 AM.
Re: Did the ancient Mystery Religions get picked up as 'Tradition'? [Re: Rick H] #155346
08/23/13 07:57 AM
08/23/13 07:57 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
So we see that the Roman Catholic church became expert in taking various ideas and mysteries or traditions and mixing them together into its system of religion, and it does not deny it. The statues of Venus were renamed and called them Mary, and the statues of Jupiter were renamed and said they were Peter, and the Babylonian statues of Semiramis and Tammuz were renamed and called Mary and baby Jesus, and the numerous gods of other religions were simply given cover as 'saints'.

"In order to attach to Christianity great attraction in the eyes of the nobility, the priests adopted the outer garments and adornments which were used in pagan cults." -Life of Constantine, Eusabius, cited in Altai-Nimalaya, p. 94

"The Church did everything it couldto stamp out such 'pagan' rites, but had to capitualet and allow the rites to continue with only the name of the local diety changed to some Christian saint's name." -Religious Tradition and Myth. Dr. Edwin Goodenough, Professor of Religion, Harvard University. p. 56, 57

It is interesting to note how often our Church has availed herself of practices which were in common use among pagans...Thus it is true, in a certain sense, that some Catholic rites and ceremonies are a reproduction of those of pagan creeds...." (The Externals of the Catholic Church, Her Government, Ceremonies, Festivals, Sacramentals and Devotions, by John F. Sullivan, p 156, published by P.J. Kennedy, NY, 1942)

Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.” — An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry “Cardinal Newman” p.373.

Interesting, "sanctified by their adoption into the Church", but how if the church was transformed into the very thing it was 'adopting'.

The ancient mystery religions of Babylon was combined into a state religion in of sun worship in Rome, and we see the Emperors supporting it and taking over and used it to build up their own cult of emperor worship as kings/priests of pagan worship, and then enact laws concerning worship and bring Christianity under its pagan system of sun worship.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2bab029.htm
http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/...an_part_1.aspx
http://www.focalpointpublications.co...ligion2-1.html
http://www.keithhunt.com/Midages8.html
http://focusonjerusalem.com/queen.html


Last edited by Rick H; 08/23/13 08:04 AM.
Re: Did the ancient Mystery Religions get picked up as 'Tradition'? [Re: Rick H] #155351
08/23/13 10:37 AM
08/23/13 10:37 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Next we look at Infant Baptism, there is no scriptural evidence sanctioning or for the authorization of Infant Baptism, Christ says nothing about Infant Baptism. The Apostles say nothing about Infant Baptism. The early Church did not have Infant Baptism so were did it come from, again we find the connection to mystery religions.

"The sudden rise of Infant Baptism is not hard to account for if we look for a moment the mystic rites of the mystery religions. In the mystery religions of antiquity in Egypt, Chaldea and Babylon, we learn that the power of the priests was claimed so great that they held the eternal destiny of human souls in their grasp.
This priesthood idea was transmitted into the Catholic church and seems infiltrated into many Christian churches.
Quote:
Infants who died without the mystic rites of the mystery religions having been performed over them, were denied entrance into the "Elysian Fields," the paradise of the Pagans. The system of infant baptism from the earliest time was an initiation ceremony of the mystery religions and cults and interestingly, infants in paganism have Original Sin..

The Elysian Fields (Ancient Greek: &#7976;&#955;&#973;&#963;&#953;&#959;&#957; &#960;&#949;&#948;&#943;&#959;&#957;, &#274;lýsion pedíon) was a conception of the afterlife that evolved and maintained by certain Greek religious and philosophical sects and cults. In mythology, Aeneas, like Heracles and Odysseus before him, travels to the underworld and we read of the visit of Aeneas to the infernal regions. There he found the unhappy souls of infants who had died without receiving the rites of paganism, “before the gates the cries of babes new-born, whom fate had from their tender mothers torn, assault his ears”..cambridgecitycoc.org.uk/OriginalSin.doc&#8206;

The earliest mention of infant baptism was by Tertullian around A.D. 220. Tertullian mentions the practice in conjunction with sponsors who would aid in the child’s spiritual training (as Godparents today). But overwhelmingly, the doctrine of baptism during the first three centuries of the church was adult believers’ baptism only. Infants simply cannot comply: infants cannot be converted, infants cannot repent and believe and in reality, do not need repentance, having not yet committed any actual transgression....Infant baptism is not a Scriptural doctrine. It is not found anywhere in the Bible. There is not one example in the Bible of one single baby ever being baptized and it’s origins are largely pagan." http://www.wisconsinchristiannews.com/view.php?sid=4125


Elsewhere I have stated how Aurelius Augustinus discovered that there was lacking a Christian theology covering infant baptism and monasticism, including the celibate priesthood. So he based his new theology of original sin on Psalm 51:5. He claimed this text teaches that sin is transmitted through intercourse, and just as you say, the original sin was washed away in infant baptism. Then in order to keep away from sin the person should live in a monastery. And it was also important for the male priest to stay away from sin.

Augustine taught that it was important for couples not to enjoy the intercourse, because then the sin was not as grievous. They could then have the excess of good works transferred from monks, nuns, priests and saints and obtain forgiveness.

Later the pope started selling letters of transfers from the bank of good works to finance the building of the large church in the Vatican. Then Protestantism was initiated by Martin Luther with his protest against these sales, which he found unBiblical.
Quote:





Infants cannot make a conscious decision. Therefore, to baptize them defeats the whole purpose of the ceremony. Also, infant baptism is never taught in the Scriptures.

The doctrine of infant baptism is of pagan origin and was brought into the Church by Roman Catholicism. As with most Catholic doctrines, infant baptism has its origins in the Babylonian mysteries....In Babylon, new birth was conferred by baptism of infants. European pagans sprinkled their newborns or immersed them, and to this day the "holy water" used for baptism in some circles is still prepared according to the pagan custom of plunging a torch from the altar into the water. Having introduced infant baptism, the Roman Catholic Church was opposed to adults being baptized and even issued the following decree: "Let him be accursed who says adults must be baptized."i

In Acts 8, the King James Version gives a full description of the baptism of the eunuch. The eunuch was a high official from Ethiopia (Acts 8:27) and had come to worship in Jerusalem. He was reading the book of Isaiah when Philip was sent to him and explained to him the passages pertaining to the Messiah.
When he had grasped their significance and recognized Jesus Christ in these verses, he was ready to be baptized (Acts 8:27-35). The KJV continues with the following verses:

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water. And the eunuch said, 'See, here is water. What doth hinder me to be baptized?' And Philip said, 'If thou believest with all thine heart, thou may.' And he answered and said, 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.' And he commanded the chariot to stand still. And they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him (Acts 8:36-38).

The question of the eunuch, "What doth hinder me to be baptized?" is answered by Phillip in verse 37:

If thou believeth with all thine heart, thou mayest.

Modern translations leave out verse 37, and the eunuch is thus denied his answer. It is stated in these translations that certain manuscripts do no contain this verse, and therefore the verse should not be included.

However, these modern translations do not do justice to the chiastic structure of the passage in question. The passage is written in question-answer chiasm and leaving out verse 37 would destroy this literary structure.

Omission of the verse is however convenient for those who propagate infant baptism, because the condition for baptism mentioned in this verse—believing with one’s whole heart—cannot be met by infants. Both infant baptism and baptism by pouring have been introduced by Roman Catholicism into the Church, but they find no support in the Scriptures..."

http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception-infant-baptism-believer


Be careful with such general terms as "Modern translations" because they can be just as deceitful as what you are saying about the Roman Catholic church.

I hold in my hand a very modern translation from 2007. This Bible is authorized for use in the State Church of my country. This Bible does not leave out verse 37. So be careful with such general statements if you want to state the "truth".

Now I hold in my hand a standard authorized Norwegian Bible from 1985. It has Acts 8:37. Since then a new translation came in 2011 which I find on the net. Here I also find Acts 8:37.

Again: Try to be trustworthy in your sweeping statements about the WORD of GOD, Rick.

Last edited by Johann; 08/23/13 10:41 AM.

"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Did the ancient Mystery Religions get picked up as 'Tradition'? [Re: Johann] #155352
08/23/13 11:14 AM
08/23/13 11:14 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Johann
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Next we look at Infant Baptism, there is no scriptural evidence sanctioning or for the authorization of Infant Baptism, Christ says nothing about Infant Baptism. The Apostles say nothing about Infant Baptism. The early Church did not have Infant Baptism so were did it come from, again we find the connection to mystery religions.

"The sudden rise of Infant Baptism is not hard to account for if we look for a moment the mystic rites of the mystery religions. In the mystery religions of antiquity in Egypt, Chaldea and Babylon, we learn that the power of the priests was claimed so great that they held the eternal destiny of human souls in their grasp.
This priesthood idea was transmitted into the Catholic church and seems infiltrated into many Christian churches.
Quote:
Infants who died without the mystic rites of the mystery religions having been performed over them, were denied entrance into the "Elysian Fields," the paradise of the Pagans. The system of infant baptism from the earliest time was an initiation ceremony of the mystery religions and cults and interestingly, infants in paganism have Original Sin..

The Elysian Fields (Ancient Greek: &#7976;&#955;&#973;&#963;&#953;&#959;&#957; &#960;&#949;&#948;&#943;&#959;&#957;, &#274;lýsion pedíon) was a conception of the afterlife that evolved and maintained by certain Greek religious and philosophical sects and cults. In mythology, Aeneas, like Heracles and Odysseus before him, travels to the underworld and we read of the visit of Aeneas to the infernal regions. There he found the unhappy souls of infants who had died without receiving the rites of paganism, “before the gates the cries of babes new-born, whom fate had from their tender mothers torn, assault his ears”..cambridgecitycoc.org.uk/OriginalSin.doc&#8206;

The earliest mention of infant baptism was by Tertullian around A.D. 220. Tertullian mentions the practice in conjunction with sponsors who would aid in the child’s spiritual training (as Godparents today). But overwhelmingly, the doctrine of baptism during the first three centuries of the church was adult believers’ baptism only. Infants simply cannot comply: infants cannot be converted, infants cannot repent and believe and in reality, do not need repentance, having not yet committed any actual transgression....Infant baptism is not a Scriptural doctrine. It is not found anywhere in the Bible. There is not one example in the Bible of one single baby ever being baptized and it’s origins are largely pagan." http://www.wisconsinchristiannews.com/view.php?sid=4125


Elsewhere I have stated how Aurelius Augustinus discovered that there was lacking a Christian theology covering infant baptism and monasticism, including the celibate priesthood. So he based his new theology of original sin on Psalm 51:5. He claimed this text teaches that sin is transmitted through intercourse, and just as you say, the original sin was washed away in infant baptism. Then in order to keep away from sin the person should live in a monastery. And it was also important for the male priest to stay away from sin.

Augustine taught that it was important for couples not to enjoy the intercourse, because then the sin was not as grievous. They could then have the excess of good works transferred from monks, nuns, priests and saints and obtain forgiveness.

Later the pope started selling letters of transfers from the bank of good works to finance the building of the large church in the Vatican. Then Protestantism was initiated by Martin Luther with his protest against these sales, which he found unBiblical.
Quote:





Infants cannot make a conscious decision. Therefore, to baptize them defeats the whole purpose of the ceremony. Also, infant baptism is never taught in the Scriptures.

The doctrine of infant baptism is of pagan origin and was brought into the Church by Roman Catholicism. As with most Catholic doctrines, infant baptism has its origins in the Babylonian mysteries....In Babylon, new birth was conferred by baptism of infants. European pagans sprinkled their newborns or immersed them, and to this day the "holy water" used for baptism in some circles is still prepared according to the pagan custom of plunging a torch from the altar into the water. Having introduced infant baptism, the Roman Catholic Church was opposed to adults being baptized and even issued the following decree: "Let him be accursed who says adults must be baptized."i

In Acts 8, the King James Version gives a full description of the baptism of the eunuch. The eunuch was a high official from Ethiopia (Acts 8:27) and had come to worship in Jerusalem. He was reading the book of Isaiah when Philip was sent to him and explained to him the passages pertaining to the Messiah.
When he had grasped their significance and recognized Jesus Christ in these verses, he was ready to be baptized (Acts 8:27-35). The KJV continues with the following verses:

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water. And the eunuch said, 'See, here is water. What doth hinder me to be baptized?' And Philip said, 'If thou believest with all thine heart, thou may.' And he answered and said, 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.' And he commanded the chariot to stand still. And they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him (Acts 8:36-38).

The question of the eunuch, "What doth hinder me to be baptized?" is answered by Phillip in verse 37:

If thou believeth with all thine heart, thou mayest.

Modern translations leave out verse 37, and the eunuch is thus denied his answer. It is stated in these translations that certain manuscripts do no contain this verse, and therefore the verse should not be included.

However, these modern translations do not do justice to the chiastic structure of the passage in question. The passage is written in question-answer chiasm and leaving out verse 37 would destroy this literary structure.

Omission of the verse is however convenient for those who propagate infant baptism, because the condition for baptism mentioned in this verse—believing with one’s whole heart—cannot be met by infants. Both infant baptism and baptism by pouring have been introduced by Roman Catholicism into the Church, but they find no support in the Scriptures..."

http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception-infant-baptism-believer


Be careful with such general terms as "Modern translations" because they can be just as deceitful as what you are saying about the Roman Catholic church.

I hold in my hand a very modern translation from 2007. This Bible is authorized for use in the State Church of my country. This Bible does not leave out verse 37. So be careful with such general statements if you want to state the "truth".

Now I hold in my hand a standard authorized Norwegian Bible from 1985. It has Acts 8:37. Since then a new translation came in 2011 which I find on the net. Here I also find Acts 8:37.

Again: Try to be trustworthy in your sweeping statements about the WORD of GOD, Rick.
Check what its based on, and when you find its source, its clear which is corrupted and which is not.

Also if you look closely you see this is Walter Veith speaking or giving his view.

Last edited by Rick H; 08/23/13 11:16 AM.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 05/05/24 05:39 AM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/03/24 02:55 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 04/30/24 10:34 PM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by dedication. 05/05/24 05:07 AM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by dedication. 04/22/24 06:04 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1