Is the meaning of Philippians 4:13 that obscure that you can't see who "him" is? NO! How much better to point out who "him" is to the one that reads the NIV than to destroy all faith of the brother. Was the real name of the son of God on earth, Jesus? NO. What was it? Where does the name Jesus come from? In the OT, were there many names for God? Does that also nauseate you?

The KJV in the book of Daniel, the phrase "daily sacrifice" is used 5 times. BUT, the word sacrifice was added, just as the word "Christ" was added in Philippians 4:13. Are you nauseated by that? John 12:32 KJV "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." The word men is added. Does this not confuse the meaning of this verse, particularly for those that have the Great Controversy view?

How much better would it be to point out the issue and carry on, just as EGW did in her day. Would it nauseate you to try to convince of JW of the divinity of Christ from the NWT?

As the Bible would ask, don't you know, haven't you heard, hasn't anybody ever told you?



God chose the name for Himself. While it may be true that some people say the Old Testament form of the word was "Joshua," this is not the Old Testament. This was the Greek word. Where does Mrs. White ever call Jesus Joshua? She doesn't. Do you name your children "Jesus?" I don't appreciate the Catholic custom of doing this sort of thing. To me it takes His name in vain. His name is special. Acts 4:12 tells us it's the only name that will save us.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The Son of God never heard His name as JESUS when He walked the earth. The word JESUS is not even Greek! Some feel we should use His REAL name, not the ENGLISH name, perhaps Jehoshua, or Joshua, meaning "Jehovah is salvation".

Will Swahili speaker who does not use the name JESUS not be saved because she used the wrong name? Will and English speaker not be saved because they used the name Jesus instead of His real Hebrew name? In the Bible, the name meant the character. Taking the name of God in vain is claiming to be His follower, and misrepresenting Him to others by our actions, claiming to be a Christian and not acting like one. That is taking the NAME of God in vain. The Jews used the utmost care when saying the name of God, so much so that we don't know how to even say it. But, their character did not fit God, they took the name of God in vain.

The texts in question, we know what they mean. By our attitudes, we can do great harm to cause of God. Move on to real issues.

APL,

These are "real issues." For example, in this next piece, note the usage of "worship" (or lack thereof, as the case may be). Keep in mind that one can "bow down" for many reasons other than "worship." While those who worship may certainly bow, it does not mean that everyone who bows worships.

WHAT WAS THAT?
	King James Version	NIV
Genesis 24:52	And it came to pass, that, when Abraham's servant heard their words, he worshipped the LORD, bowing himself to the earth.	When Abraham's servant heard what they said, he bowed down to the ground before the Lord.
Exodus 32:8	They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.	They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’
Deuteronomy 26:10	And now, behold, I have brought the firstfruits of the land, which thou, O LORD, hast given me. And thou shalt set it before the LORD thy God, and worship before the LORD thy God:	and now I bring the firstfruits of the soil that you, O Lord, have given me.” Place the basket before the Lord your God and bow down before him.
Joshua 5:14	And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?	“Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, “What message does my Lord have for his servant?”
2 Kings 5:18	In this thing the LORD pardon thy servant, that when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the LORD pardon thy servant in this thing.	But may the Lord forgive your servant for this one thing: When my master enters the temple of Rimmon to bow down and he is leaning on my arm and I bow there also—when I bow down in the temple of Rimmon, may the Lord forgive your servant for this.”
2 Kings 10:19	Now therefore call unto me all the prophets of Baal, all his servants, and all his priests; let none be wanting: for I have a great sacrifice to do to Baal; whosoever shall be wanting, he shall not live. But Jehu did it in subtilty, to the intent that he might destroy the worshippers of Baal.	Now summon all the prophets of Baal, all his ministers and all his priests. See that no one is missing, because I am going to hold a great sacrifice for Baal. Anyone who fails to come will no longer live.” But Jehu was acting deceptively in order to destroy the ministers of Baal.
2 Kings 10:21	And Jehu sent through all Israel: and all the worshippers of Baal came, so that there was not a man left that came not. And they came into the house of Baal; and the house of Baal was full from one end to another.	Then he sent word throughout Israel, and all the ministers of Baal came; not one stayed away. They crowded into the temple of Baal until it was full from one end to the other.
2 Kings 10:22	And he said unto him that was over the vestry, Bring forth vestments for all the worshippers of Baal. And he brought them forth vestments.	And Jehu said to the keeper of the wardrobe, “Bring robes for all the ministers of Baal.” So he brought out robes for them.
2 Kings 10:23	And Jehu went, and Jehonadab the son of Rechab, into the house of Baal, and said unto the worshippers of Baal, Search, and look that there be here with you none of the servants of the LORD, but the worshippers of Baal only.	Then Jehu and Jehonadab son of Recab went into the temple of Baal. Jehu said to the ministers of Baal, “Look around and see that no servants of the Lord are here with you—only ministers of Baal.”
1 Chronicles 29:20	And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.	Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the Lord your God.” So they all praised the Lord, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the Lord and the king.
Psalms 5:7	But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.	But I, by your great mercy, will come into your house; in reverence will I bow down toward your holy temple.
Psalms 22:27	All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.	All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,
Psalms 45:11	So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.	The king is enthralled by your beauty; honor him, for he is your lord.
Psalms 66:4	All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah.	All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing praise to your name.” Selah
Psalms 81:9	There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god.	You shall have no foreign god among you; you shall not bow down to an alien god.
Psalms 138:2	I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.	I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.
Isaiah 2:8	Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:	Their land is full of idols; they bow down to the work of their hands, to what their fingers have made.
Isaiah 49:7	Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.	This is what the Lord says— the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel— to him who was despised and abhorred by the nation, to the servant of rulers: “Kings will see you and rise up, princes will see and bow down, because of the Lord, who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen you.”
Isaiah 66:23	And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.	From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.
Jeremiah 44:19	And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?	The women added, “When we burned incense to the Queen of Heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did not our husbands know that we were making cakes like her image and pouring out drink offerings to her?”
Ezekiel 8:16	And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.	He then brought me into the inner court of the house of the LORD, and there at the entrance to the temple, between the portico and the altar, were about twenty-five men. With their backs toward the temple of the LORD and their faces toward the east, they were bowing down to the sun in the east.
Daniel 2:46	Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.	Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell prostrate before Daniel and paid him honor and ordered that an offering and incense be presented to him.
Micah 5:13	Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.	I will destroy your carved images and your sacred stones from among you; you will no longer bow down to the work of your hands.
Matthew 8:2	And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.	A man with leprosy came and knelt before him and said, “Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.”
Matthew 9:18	While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.	While he was saying this, a ruler came and knelt before him and said, “My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live.”
Matthew 15:25	Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.	The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
Matthew 18:26	The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.	“The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’
Matthew 20:20	Then came to him the mother of Zebedees children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.	Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him.
Mark 5:6	But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,	When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him.
Mark 15:19	And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.	Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him. Falling on their knees, they paid homage to him.
Luke 14:10	But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.	But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all your fellow guests.
John 9:31	Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.	We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.
Acts 10:25	And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.	As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.
Acts 17:25	Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;	And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
Acts 19:35	And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Jupiter?	The city clerk quieted the crowd and said: “Men of Ephesus, doesn't all the world know that the city of Ephesus is the guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of her image, which fell from heaven?
Revelation 3:9	Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.	I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars–I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

This is a matter of "worship." Satan does not want us to worship God. Satan will one day acknowledge God, and bow down before Him. He will admit that God's way was best. But Satan will never worship God. He would like us to think that just "bowing" is good enough. But it isn't. We need to worship, not merely assent or acknowledge or respect.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

This is a difficult question for people who lack the ability to

Another problem we meet here is that even the "pure" Greek text uses a word that means "bow down" which the tranlators appointed by King James translated "worship". Were they more inspired than the original writers of the WORD?

Green - could you prove the divinity of Christ to a JW using their Bible translation, the NWT? They are not going to want to use all those other "corrupt" versions...

APL,

That's a good question. I don't think I can answer it. First, I do not have one of their Bibles at my disposal and have never read one. Second, JW's are not the people to whom God has called me. There are no JW's anywhere near me.

Do I believe that God can reach them? Certainly. Do I believe that God will use error to reach people? No. But I believe that God will reach people in spite of error, and that this occurs routinely. Remember, Martin Luther was brought to his full understanding of God's redemption plan whilst on a mission of penance up the steps in Rome. It was then that he heard, as it were an audible voice, telling him "the just shall live by faith."



God can reach any true seeker. Any pretended seeker will find what he or she wants to find--and not the truth. There will always be an excuse to doubt or to reject God.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Perhaps the error is in making an issue where there is none, or making a idol of particular English words. The words are not sacred. Is it really that obscure if one translation has "worship" and another has "bow down"? Which is an accurage translation of the original?

So, when we translate those words, since it was not the "words" that were inspired, we can just pick any word we like? If so, why does God bother to give the "copyright" for the Book in its last chapter?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.