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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: asygo]
#168535
09/30/14 02:46 PM
09/30/14 02:46 PM
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SDA
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We are not ready for more light unless we follow the light we already have. | Killing vs. Murder |
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| Killing | Text | Murder | Text |
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| Killing "any person at unawares" | Numbers 35:11 | Killing "with an instrument of iron" | Numbers 35:16 | | As the "revenger of blood," killing the murderer "when he meeteth him," without hatred, lying in wait, etc. | Numbers 35:19-21 | Killing by "throwing a stone wherewith he may die" | Numbers 35:17 | | Killing a neighbor ignorantly, such as when the ax head slips off the handle and strikes him while cutting wood | Deuteronomy 19:4-5 | "But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities: Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. | Deuteronomy 19:11-12 |
Given just that, can a reasonable person conclude that the Bible makes a distinction between different types of killing? In which column does Stoning belong, left or right?
Last edited by Green Cochoa; 10/01/14 04:22 AM. Reason: Enabled HTML in post
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#168537
09/30/14 03:28 PM
09/30/14 03:28 PM
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asygo, I see you repeated Green's examples which he has now refuted as relating to the topic thread.
Can you specify the principle given in your examples for distinguishing between murder and killing?
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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: APL]
#168538
09/30/14 03:35 PM
09/30/14 03:35 PM
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In which column does Stoning belong, left or right? Well...uh, those are just examples.... uh... you are putting too much stock into.... uh, and uh.... focusing too much on.... you need to more, uh, focus on... just making stuff up because we all just "know" what is murder and what is killing, because, uh..... it's based upon, uh..., whether we are doing it or someone else. Yeah, that's it... The underlying principle: me doing it, or you doing it!
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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: APL]
#168544
09/30/14 05:42 PM
09/30/14 05:42 PM
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Active Member 2023
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We are not ready for more light unless we follow the light we already have. | Killing vs. Murder |
|---|
| Killing | Text | Murder | Text |
|---|
| Killing "any person at unawares" | Numbers 35:11 | Killing "with an instrument of iron" | Numbers 35:16 | | As the "revenger of blood," killing the murderer "when he meeteth him," without hatred, lying in wait, etc. | Numbers 35:19-21 | Killing by "throwing a stone wherewith he may die" | Numbers 35:17 | | Killing a neighbor ignorantly, such as when the ax head slips off the handle and strikes him while cutting wood | Deuteronomy 19:4-5 | "But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities: Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. | Deuteronomy 19:11-12 |
Given just that, can a reasonable person conclude that the Bible makes a distinction between different types of killing? In which column does Stoning belong, left or right? You're jumping ahead. Let's address this first: is there a Biblical distinction between the left and the right columns?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: kland]
#168545
09/30/14 05:54 PM
09/30/14 05:54 PM
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asygo, I see you repeated Green's examples which he has now refuted as relating to the topic thread.
Can you specify the principle given in your examples for distinguishing between murder and killing? Before we ask how, we need to specify what we are talking about. Let's address this first: is there a Biblical distinction between the left and the right columns? BTW, I don't think GC authored those texts.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#168562
10/01/14 02:46 PM
10/01/14 02:46 PM
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Posts: 6,425
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No. It isn't addressing any distinction between murder and killing.
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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: kland]
#168565
10/01/14 03:48 PM
10/01/14 03:48 PM
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SDA
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No. It isn't addressing any distinction between murder and killing. Deuteronomy 19:4-6 This is the provision for the manslayer, who by fleeing there may save his life. If anyone kills his neighbor unintentionally without having hated him in the past--as when someone goes into the forest with his neighbor to cut wood, and his hand swings the axe to cut down a tree, and the head slips from the handle and strikes his neighbor so that he dies--he may flee to one of these cities and live, lest the avenger of blood in hot anger pursue the manslayer and overtake him, because the way is long, and strike him fatally, though the man did not deserve to die, since he had not hated his neighbor in the past. Deuteronomy 19:11-13 But if anyone hates his neighbor and lies in wait for him and attacks him and strikes him fatally so that he dies, and he flees into one of these cities, then the elders of his city shall send and take him from there, and hand him over to the avenger of blood, so that he may die. Your eye shall not pity him, but you shall purge the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, so that it may be well with you. Here's what I see: Case 1 - flee to the city and live Case 2 - if he flees to the city, kick him out to die If you can't see any distinction in the Biblical instructions regarding those two cases, there really is no point in asking someone to explain the distinction to you. It would be like asking someone to explain how it is possible for a negative number to have a square root - no point explaining how until everyone agrees it exists.
Last edited by asygo; 10/01/14 04:55 PM. Reason: Added verse that was left out
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: asygo]
#168574
10/02/14 02:44 AM
10/02/14 02:44 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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If you can't see any distinction in the Biblical instructions regarding those two cases, there really is no point in asking someone to explain the distinction to you. There are none so blind as they who will not see. Pride of opinion blinds many eyes. It is human nature. But it is something which we need to overcome if we wish to follow Jesus and His light. The Bible is plain on this and many other issues which people might wish in today's culture were not so plain. If we bow to our culture and modern mores, we yield the truth. If we wish to know the truth more fully, we must be ready to give up our own preconceived opinions. This process, while hurtful to our pride, is not optional if we would draw nearer to Jesus. The more I study, the more I am brought to understand the importance of having a proper discernment of every Bible truth. These truths impact our understanding of other truths. In the case of murder vs. killing, the ripple effect from this belief touches many other beliefs, including, most importantly, one's understanding of the nature of God Himself--such as whether or not He will punish the sinner. Less importantly, it touches on Bible translations and versions, church authority, and obedience to God in spite of not understanding His commands--not to say that these things are unimportant. Any one of these things may affect one's salvation. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#168582
10/02/14 03:04 PM
10/02/14 03:04 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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There are none so blind as they who will not see. Pride of opinion blinds many eyes. It is human nature. But it is something which we need to overcome if we wish to follow Jesus and His light. AMEN! Jesus is the Truth. We need to know the Truth as it is in Jesus. Jesus is the best testimony and through which unlocks the truths in the Old Testament. Jesus gave us the keys with which to understand the stories of the Old Testament. The stories of the conquests of Canaan, the priesthood, the sacrifices, divine anger and punishment, etc. Jesus gives us the key! The hermeneutic "it was not so in the beginning" unlocks it all. Yet will our pride of opinion continue to blind us to the Truth as it is in Jesus? Will we continue to discount the Truth that Jesus gave?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Biblical Distinction Between Killing and Murder
[Re: APL]
#168583
10/02/14 03:22 PM
10/02/14 03:22 PM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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"The slumbering faculties of the Jewish people are to be aroused. . . . Souls will be saved from the Jewish nation, as the doors of the New Testament are unlocked with the key of the Old Testament. . . . Many of the Jewish people will by faith receive Christ as their Redeemer." {PUR, March 23, 1905 par. 1}
The same night he revealed himself to the disciples assembled at Jerusalem. He did not point to the mighty works which he had done, to awaken their faith in him as the promised Redeemer. But he went back to Moses and the prophets and explained the scriptures concerning himself. The Old Testament, the "sure word of prophecy," is the only key that will unlock the New Testament Scriptures, and show that Jesus Christ revealed in the gospel is the Son of God, the long-expected Messiah. {RH, September 14, 1886 par. 16} The New Testament truths are unlocked by the key of the Old Testament. Properly understanding the Old Testament truths is important. Have you an answer for Arnold? He posted the following: Let's address this first: is there a Biblical distinction between the left and the right columns?
...
If you can't see any distinction in the Biblical instructions regarding those two cases, there really is no point in asking someone to explain the distinction to you. It would be like asking someone to explain how it is possible for a negative number to have a square root - no point explaining how until everyone agrees it exists. Use the Old Testament key. The answer for this question is not so easily discovered in the New Testament. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
Last edited by Green Cochoa; 10/02/14 03:35 PM. Reason: Added to the quote
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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