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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #159037
12/06/13 03:48 PM
12/06/13 03:48 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL, please answer GC's question. Would you, like Moses, obey Jesus' command to execute capital punishment and kill enemy combatants? Or, would you, like King Saul, refuse to comply with Jesus' command? Would you obey or disobey?

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #159039
12/06/13 06:37 PM
12/06/13 06:37 PM
APL  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
APL, please answer GC's question. Would you, like Moses, obey Jesus' command to execute capital punishment and kill enemy combatants? Or, would you, like King Saul, refuse to comply with Jesus' command? Would you obey or disobey?
MM - I answered the question. Shall I quote my answer? How does God talk to us? By His word. That is what I will do by the power of God, because in me, I can do nothing.

What did the children of Israel say that they would do? Exodus 19:8 "And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD has spoken we will do." This was Israel saying that THEY would do the work. It was a law of works. It could not save them, and it was a testimony against them. You are asking me to give an answer to repeat the problem the children of Israel had. Of myself, I can do nothing. The question is a misleading question, in that none of us can keep any part of the law (God's commands) by ourselves. Only by faith are we saved (justified/sanctified/...)


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: APL] #159043
12/07/13 03:16 AM
12/07/13 03:16 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL, the question is very simple. You didn't answer it. You went off on a tangent.

Quote:
"And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do." This covenant is of just as much force today as it was when the Lord made it with ancient Israel. This is the pledge that God's people are to make in these last days." {1BC 1103}

If Jesus commanded you to kill criminals and combatants would you, like Moses, obey? Or, would you, like King Saul, disobey?

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #159044
12/07/13 03:18 AM
12/07/13 03:18 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: APL
M: Jesus commanded His chosen people to "smite" and "utterly destroy" His enemies. Those who obeyed He blessed. And those who disobeyed He cursed and killed.

A: No question! BUT - was this plan A? Nope. Does this prove that this is how God handles all such situations? Nope. This was God's permissive will, not His ideal will. Just as God gave instructions on how to handle adultery via polygamy and divorce. God's permissive will, not His ideal will.

Jesus did not permit the Hebrews to "utterly destroy" His enemies - He commanded them to do it. Jesus does not command people to sin. Plan A involved Jesus using hornets and Hebrews to kill the men, women, and children in the Promised Land. Ideal? Of course not. Ideally A&E would have refused to disobey. Didn't happen. Ideally the Canaanites would have embraced Jesus as their Saviour. Didn't happen.

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #159045
12/07/13 03:18 AM
12/07/13 03:18 AM
APL  Offline OP
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Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
APL, the question is very simple. You didn't answer it. You went off on a tangent.

Quote:
"And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do." This covenant is of just as much force today as it was when the Lord made it with ancient Israel. This is the pledge that God's people are to make in these last days." {1BC 1103}

If Jesus commanded you to kill criminals and combatants would you, like Moses, obey? Or, would you, like King Saul, disobey?
I have given you my answer. Move on.

As for "And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do", what did Israel almost immediately do?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #159051
12/07/13 03:47 AM
12/07/13 03:47 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: APL
M: Jesus commanded His chosen people to "smite" and "utterly destroy" His enemies. Those who obeyed He blessed. And those who disobeyed He cursed and killed.

A: No question! BUT - was this plan A? Nope. Does this prove that this is how God handles all such situations? Nope. This was God's permissive will, not His ideal will. Just as God gave instructions on how to handle adultery via polygamy and divorce. God's permissive will, not His ideal will.

Jesus did not permit the Hebrews to "utterly destroy" His enemies - He commanded them to do it. Jesus does not command people to sin. Plan A involved Jesus using hornets and Hebrews to kill the men, women, and children in the Promised Land. Ideal? Of course not. Ideally A&E would have refused to disobey. Didn't happen. Ideally the Canaanites would have embraced Jesus as their Saviour. Didn't happen.

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #159052
12/07/13 03:52 AM
12/07/13 03:52 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
M: If Jesus commanded you to kill criminals and combatants would you, like Moses, obey? Or, would you, like King Saul, disobey?

A: I have given you my answer. Move on.

Are you suggesting you would say, "All that the Lord hath said I will do" and immediately thereafter worship a golden calf?

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #159053
12/07/13 04:08 AM
12/07/13 04:08 AM
APL  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: mm
Are you suggesting you would say, "All that the Lord hath said I will do" and immediately thereafter worship a golden calf?
cry This is what the children of Israel did. They refused to follow God. God continued to work with them, even when they did fight. But they were never supposed to fight.

"All that the Lord hath spoken we will do" Exodus 19:8. Obey My voice. Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart" Jeremiah 11:7-8.

The people did not fulfill their promise, and they therefore did not receive the blessings God wished to bestow on them. By following their own impulses, they pursued a course that disqualified them for being recognized as God's peculiar treasure.

"But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be My people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all My servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them" Jeremiah 7:23-25. [Q]


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: APL] #159057
12/07/13 03:08 PM
12/07/13 03:08 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
APL,

I'll be happy to answer after you answer my question. This is your favorite avoidance tactic--ask a question in return. I've taken the bait before, only to never get an answer from you. I asked first, so you first.

"If God asked you to do something that you believed was not His "Plan A," but rather His "Plan B," would you do it?"

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
I answered the question.


Then I'll also answer yours in like manner.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: APL] #159062
12/07/13 03:52 PM
12/07/13 03:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: APL
M: Are you suggesting you would say, "All that the Lord hath said I will do" and immediately thereafter worship a golden calf?

A: This is what the children of Israel did. They refused to follow God. God continued to work with them, even when they did fight. But they were never supposed to fight.

I'm still trying to discern your answer to GC's question. For the life of me I cannot figure out how you answered his question. If Jesus commanded you to kill criminals and combatants would you obey? Perhaps you believe Jesus would never command you to do such a thing? However, for the sake of discussion, put yourself in Moses' shoes. Would you obey like Moses did? Or, would you try to plead with Jesus to rescind His command (like Moses did when Jesus threatened to wipe out the Jews and start over with Moses)?

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