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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#161969
02/17/14 09:20 PM
02/17/14 09:20 PM
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It is clear that God's commands on divorce, polygamy, etc. do not represent His will. They accommodate the hardness of the hearts of people, like Jesus said. It is clear that Pr. Johann is not a safe spiritual guide. What God commands, we best follow--for sooner than the command leaves His lips, it is His will that it be carried out. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: APL]
#161971
02/17/14 11:32 PM
02/17/14 11:32 PM
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What is God's Will? Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and [from] our Lord Jesus Christ,
1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: God's will is to deliver us from this present evil world. Col 4:12 that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.
1 Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification
1 Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven! Look to heaven to see what it is to be part of God'sperfect will. No sin, no death, no fighting or strife, perfect harmony, peace, love, joy, gentleness, trust. But God's will is not being done on earth, yet it is His will that "he might deliver us from this present evil world," In order to do this He must meet us where we are and lead us forward. A lot of things that were done in OT times are not examples of God's perfect will for mankind, but they are examples of God's will to deliver mankind from this present evil world. There is a difference. God does not "will" thousands to be lost. He didn't 'will" for the Canaanites to fall deeper and deeper into gross iniquity. He sent them Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to testify of Him, He allowed them to know of His deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt. They had 400 some years to repent and turn from their sins. But when their cup of iniquity was full, and their thoughts were to do evil continually, it was God's will to destroy them, not because He has the mentality of a "destroyer" but because it is His Will to deliver people from this present evil world. Thus we do see in the OT that God outlines procedures that can't possible represent His perfect will for a perfect world. Rather it represents his Will make it possible for people to learn truth, and to teach and move people along the path of deliverance from this present evil world. In the constant warfare between Israel and the idolaters around them, I am sure it was never God's will that there should be all this warfare and killing. It should have been a quick conquest and then Israel was to be a light set on a hill shining God's will to the world. But of course it didn't work that way -- Israel was constantly distrusting God, and being drawn into idolatry and other practices of the heathen, so God let the heathen oppress them, till they called upon God for help, and He would help them win against their enemies, but then they would fall back, and the cycle repeated itself over and over and over again. A lot of the laws given by God for the civil judges of Israel to follow were given to put limits on evil, they were not God's perfect will for a perfect world. That does not mean it wasn't His will to put those limits on evil, for it was His will, but that should not be confused with God's will for a perfect life or a perfect world.
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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: dedication]
#161973
02/18/14 01:37 AM
02/18/14 01:37 AM
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When they sinned in Heaven God kicked them out. Obey and stay. Disobey and go away.
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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: APL]
#161975
02/18/14 02:04 AM
02/18/14 02:04 AM
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M: Where in the Bible did Jesus command divorce? He commanded capital punishment multiple times (a point you have not confessed).
A: He commanded the people to spy out the land, which was not His will. 1. Where in the Bible did Jesus command divorce? 2. You refuse to confess Jesus commanded capital punishment. 3. Where in inspiration does it say it wasn't God's will to send out spies? God sent them into the land for a special purpose, but the spies brought back an evil report, full of unbelief and complaint. {RH, October 3, 1893 par. 6}
Here it was proposed by the people that spies be sent up to survey the country. The matter was presented before the Lord by Moses, and permission was granted, with the direction that one of the rulers of each tribe should be selected for this purpose. {PP 387.1}
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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#161980
02/18/14 03:15 AM
02/18/14 03:15 AM
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MM - you questions are not on topic. Does God give commands in situations which are not His will? YES.
Who proposed to send in spies? God? Nope.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: APL]
#161983
02/18/14 03:50 AM
02/18/14 03:50 AM
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By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: dedication]
#161996
02/18/14 02:38 PM
02/18/14 02:38 PM
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God does not "will" thousands to be lost. He didn't 'will" for the Canaanites to fall deeper and deeper into gross iniquity. He sent them Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to testify of Him, He allowed them to know of His deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt. They had 400 some years to repent and turn from their sins.
But when their cup of iniquity was full, and their thoughts were to do evil continually, it was God's will to destroy them, not because He has the mentality of a "destroyer" but because it is His Will to deliver people from this present evil world.
Careful. You are coming close to making a Greenism! God destroys, because it is His will to deliver them? You said so many good things, but then this. What does that mean? God is not the destroyer because He destroys to deliver?
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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#161998
02/18/14 03:00 PM
02/18/14 03:00 PM
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Here are some more good statements. Those who have genuine love for God will manifest an earnest desire to know His will and to do it. Says the apostle John, whose epistles treat so fully upon love, "This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments" (1 John 5:3).
In order to keep God's commandments, we must have an intelligent knowledge of the Scriptures. We can not obey God until we know what His commands are. It was that we might understand His will that God gave us the Bible. By a study of its teachings, we learn to deny self and to conform our lives to its requirements. Obviously, it is God's will that we obey His commands. The contrapositive must also be true, to wit, God's commands show us His will. Given your distinction between murder and killing, if God commands people to kill those who have not murdered, does that mean He commands people to murder and therefore it is His will that people murder?
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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: kland]
#162003
02/18/14 03:45 PM
02/18/14 03:45 PM
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Given your distinction between murder and killing, if God commands people to kill those who have not murdered, does that mean He commands people to murder and therefore it is His will that people murder? You have misrepresented my position and the Biblical distinction. Murder was not the only offense to incur capital punishment. Other offenses, as you may recall, that required capital punishment included: willful Sabbath-breaking, rebellion against parental authority, rape, adultery, and failing to restrain one's dangerous animal to the point where it killed someone (this list is not intended to be exhaustive, merely descriptive). In the end, any sin, however small, requires capital punishment of the offender. The only way for each of us to obtain mercy and pardon, is to accept Jesus' substitutionary payment of our penalty in our place. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Do God's Commands Represent His Will?
[Re: asygo]
#162004
02/18/14 03:45 PM
02/18/14 03:45 PM
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What should you do if God commands you to do something that is against His will? Arnold, God never commands against His will. If He commands, it is His will as of that moment, if not before. Therefore, I do not know how to answer your poll. The phraseology of the question forces it to be in error. There could be but one of three errors involved: 1) I am mistaken in identifying God's voice; or 2) I am mistaken in understanding God's will; or 3) Satan is commanding me to do God's will. Those are the only three possibilities I see from your poll question. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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