HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,619
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 21
kland 9
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
ProdigalOne
ProdigalOne
Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,185
Joined: June 2015
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
5 registered members (Karen Y, dedication, Nadi, 2 invisible), 3,500 guests, and 16 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 8 of 73 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 72 73
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164738
05/04/14 04:35 PM
05/04/14 04:35 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Born-again believers duplicate Jesus' righteousness and true holiness while they are abiding in Him. ... They stand before God as did Jesus.
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Nevertheless, the righteous fruit of abiding in Jesus must be sweetened with the perfume of Jesus' blood and righteousness to be spotless and acceptable to our heavenly Father. Not because it is sinful.

Let's say I agree with your interpretation of 1SM 344 - that true believers' fruit is not sinful, but neither is it spotless and acceptable without Jesus adding His Blue Bonnet. You say that true believers "stand before God as did Jesus." If so, who added Blue Bonnet to Christ's good works? Who perfumed His righteous fruits so they could BECOME spotless and acceptable?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164739
05/04/14 05:01 PM
05/04/14 05:01 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Let's say I agree with your interpretation of 1SM 344 - that true believers' fruit is not sinful, but neither is it spotless and acceptable without Jesus adding His Blue Bonnet. You say that true believers "stand before God as did Jesus." If so, who added Blue Bonnet to Christ's good works? Who perfumed His righteous fruits so they could BECOME spotless and acceptable?

This is called the plan of redemption.

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bore our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live to righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, [purged them from where?] sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

The law requires righteousness,--a righteous life, a perfect character; and this man has not to give. He cannot meet the claims of God's holy law. But Christ, coming to the earth as man, lived a holy life, and developed a perfect character. These He offers as a free gift to all who will receive them. His life stands for the life of men. Thus they have remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. More than this, Christ imbues men with the attributes of God. He builds up the human character after the similitude of the divine character, a goodly fabric of spiritual strength and beauty. Thus the very righteousness of the law is fulfilled in the believer in Christ. God can "be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Romans 3:26. {DA 762.2}

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164740
05/04/14 05:02 PM
05/04/14 05:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The fruit Jesus produced while abiding in the Father ascended in spotless purity. It needed no additives to make it acceptable. It didn't have anything to do with the fact He never sinned. Believers live without sinning, too, while abiding in Jesus. I believe it is because He is God.

If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned. {SC 62.2}

More than this, Christ changes the heart. He abides in your heart by faith. You are to maintain this connection with Christ by faith and the continual surrender of your will to Him; and so long as you do this, He will work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. So you may say, "The life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20. So Jesus said to His disciples, "It is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." Matthew 10:20. Then with Christ working in you, you will manifest the same spirit and do the same good works --works of righteousness, obedience. {SC 62.3}

Yes, the same spirit, the same good works. Nevertheless, Jesus must add His light and love to make it acceptable to our heavenly Father.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164742
05/04/14 05:47 PM
05/04/14 05:47 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Did a short search on the phrase "acceptable to God". Although she doesn't always say so, the fruit of faith is acceptable to our heavenly Father only after Jesus mixes in His love and light.

Quote:
The silent, fervent prayer of the soul will rise like holy incense to the throne of grace and will be as acceptable to God as if offered in the sanctuary. {AH 212.4}

It is not the length of time we labor but our willingness and fidelity in the work that makes it acceptable to God. {COL 402.3}

As we thus contemplate heavenly themes, our faith and love will grow stronger, and our prayers will be more and more acceptable to God, because they will be more and more mixed with faith and love. {CE 57.2}

Repentance, true humility, a broken heart, and a contrite spirit, alone will be acceptable to God. {CS 153.1}

Physical and mental effort, wisely combined, will keep the whole man in a condition that makes him acceptable to God. {DG 162.3}

By the Spirit every sincere prayer is indited, and such prayer is acceptable to God. {DA 189.2}

Music is acceptable to God only when the heart is sanctified and made soft and holy by its facilities. {Ev 512.1}

Through faith in Him, Christ will make all our imperfect efforts acceptable to God. {FW 48.3}

All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin; but that which is wrought through faith is acceptable to God. {FW 94.1}

The incense, ascending with the prayers of Israel, represents the merits and intercession of Christ, His perfect righteousness, which through faith is imputed to His people, and which can alone make the worship of sinful beings acceptable to God. {FLB 197.4}

It is not the greatness of the gift that makes the offering acceptable to God; it is the purpose of the heart, the spirit of gratitude and love that it expresses. {FLB 245.5}

Neither prayer nor almsgiving has any virtue in itself to recommend the sinner to God; the grace of Christ, through His atoning sacrifice, can alone renew the heart and make our service acceptable to God. {AG 86.4}

But are good works of no real value? Is the sinner who commits sin every day with impunity, regarded of God with the same favor as the one who through faith in Christ tries to work in his integrity? The Scripture answers, "We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." In His divine arrangement, through His unmerited favor, the Lord has ordained that good works shall be rewarded. We are accepted through Christ's merit alone; and the acts of mercy, the deeds of charity, which we perform, are the fruits of faith; and they become a blessing to us; for men are to be rewarded according to their works. It is the fragrance of the merit of Christ that makes our good works acceptable to God, and it is grace that enables us to do the works for which He rewards us. Our works in and of themselves have no merit. When we have done all that it is possible for us to do, we are to count ourselves as unprofitable servants. We deserve no thanks from God. We have only done what it was our duty to do, and our works could not have been performed in the strength of our own sinful natures. {AG 331.3}

It requires earnest efforts to present ourselves a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God. It takes the entire being, complete consecration, entire submission. There must be no chamber of the mind where Satan can hold sway, and carry out his devices. Self must be crucified. Sacrifices must be made that will seem like taking the very life-blood from the heart. {GW92 470.2}

In the lives of those who are partakers of the divine nature there is a crucifixion of the haughty, self-sufficient spirit that leads to self-exaltation. In its place the Spirit of Christ abides, and in the life the fruits of the Spirit appear. Having the mind of Christ, His followers reveal the graces of His character. Nothing short of this will make men acceptable to God. Nothing short of this will give them the pure, holy character that those must have who are admitted to heaven. As soon as a man puts on Christ, an evidence of the change wrought in him is seen in spirit and word and act. A heavenly atmosphere surrounds his soul; for Christ is abiding within. {LHU 301.4}

However complete may have been our consecration at conversion, it will avail us nothing unless it be renewed daily, but a consecration that embraces the actual present is fresh, genuine, and acceptable to God. {OFC 125.5}

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164746
05/04/14 08:12 PM
05/04/14 08:12 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The fruit Jesus produced while abiding in the Father ascended in spotless purity. It needed no additives to make it acceptable.

But true believers' fruit needs additives. So they are NOT the same as Christ. One needs additives to be spotless, the other one is spotless as-is, so they CANNOT be the same. Agreed?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164749
05/04/14 09:50 PM
05/04/14 09:50 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Did a short search on the phrase "acceptable to God". Although she doesn't always say so, the fruit of faith is acceptable to our heavenly Father only after Jesus mixes in His love and light.


So how could that be if inside of Jesus had the old man sin rumbling around in His sinful flesh?

By your own words you say that our prayers are only acceptable by God if Jesus mixes in His love and light, but does that include His sinful torments of the flesh? That would seem to be a flawed example.

That would mean by dwelling in Christ we could never get rid of the sinful flesh because the perfect example also had sinful flesh so His level of perfection would be flawed, making it impossible to ever be perfected from sin which you say is demanded of.

You cant have it both ways.

Either Jesus had sinful flesh making His example imperfect or
He had unfallen flesh making His soul the perfect refuge to gain the perfect example.

I pledge my life to the latter example and He rewards me for doing so.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164751
05/04/14 10:17 PM
05/04/14 10:17 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
No, they are the "same". Ellen White says so in explicit terms. There is another reason why the fruit Jesus bore needed no additives. I believe it is because Jesus is God.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164753
05/04/14 10:46 PM
05/04/14 10:46 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
No, they are the "same". Ellen White says so in explicit terms. There is another reason why the fruit Jesus bore needed no additives. I believe it is because Jesus is God.


But you said He came in the sinful flesh, how could He not need any spiritual additives if He was struggling with the old man sinful flesh?

The fact is He was in the flesh not OF the flesh.

How can He be God and have sinful desires that He needed to overcome? And since Jesus and the Father are "one" wouldn't that mean the Father would have those sinful desires?

The Father dwelt in the Son through the Holy Spirit. When we are in Christ like He was in the Father that over rules our sinful flesh, but how could He also be in the sinful flesh and have the Father in Him?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164756
05/05/14 12:12 AM
05/05/14 12:12 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
No, they are the "same". Ellen White says so in explicit terms. There is another reason why the fruit Jesus bore needed no additives. I believe it is because Jesus is God.

We might not be in agreement on what "same" means.

Jesus prays, and it's spotless and acceptable. MM prays, and it's defiled and unacceptable. That's not the same.

It's the same problem I have with people who say Jesus had an identical nature as us except for ________. It's a use of "identical" with which I am not familiar.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #164758
05/05/14 02:13 AM
05/05/14 02:13 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Arnold, the fruit of abiding in Jesus is righteousness and true holiness. Not sin. Defiled, yes! Requiring the love and light of Jesus, yes! Sinful, no! "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." Believers do what they do because God does what He does. The result is His good pleasure. Just because Jesus must mix in His love and light, it doesn't mean the original is sinful. Jesus is not in the business of making sin acceptable to God. No amount of His love and light can transform sin into something acceptable to God. Sin will perish with Satan in the lake of fire.

Again, I believe the fruit of Jesus abiding in the Father required no additional love and light for the simple fact He is God.

Page 8 of 73 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 72 73

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 05/05/24 05:39 AM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/03/24 02:55 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 04/30/24 10:34 PM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by dedication. 05/05/24 05:07 AM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by dedication. 04/22/24 06:04 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1