Three things:

1. The latter has already occurred.
2. The USA will never establish a national Sunday law
3. The 8th King of Rev. 17 has already passed away.

///

The US will never establish a Sunday Law?

When it does happen I hope you are able to apologize.

Well, I know it will never happen because the direct opposite has been prophesied in the Scriptures. Jesus, Paul and John spoke of the coming of THE Antichrist.

///

James Peterson,

I may end up splitting this into a thread of its own, but right now I have a question.

Who do you think is/will be this "THE Anti-Christ"?

John is the only one who uses the term (four times):

1. "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many Antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour." (1 John 2:18)

2. "Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is Antichrist who denies the Father and the Son." (1 John 2:22)

3. "every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world." (1 John 4:3)

4. "many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an Antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

It is self-evident that Christians are NOT Antichrist: whether of SDA or their long-running self-appointed nemesis, the Catholics. The Antichrist arises from the non-Christian sector of society. Christ is of no value to him. Jesus, Paul and John speak of him as a character strongly resembling Pharaoh Ramses of Egypt, best epitomized by his own words, "Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord, nor will I let Israel go." (Exodus 5:2) This is the future of Christianity, surrounded and cut down on every side by ruthless secularism. There is no national Sunday Law to come in the USA.

///

Are Sunday Laws and Antichrist separate issues? I think not.

The issue presented here is a doctrine that the enemy of souls loves to get people to believe.

Satan likes people to think of him as some beastly, dumb creature with a pitch fork and hooves that is always recognized as distinctly evil.

Yes, he is distinctly evil BUT --

2 Cor. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

In fact if you've been exposed to any "New Age" stuff you realize that one of the "masters" (which are fallen angels) calls himself "Jesus".

The religious world is looking for an evil "antichrist" and someone may present himself as such, but the whole world will fall for the real antichrist because it will manifest itself as AN ANGEL OF LIGHT or as Jesus Himself, or Christ's representative. (We'll probably see a combination of all three)

What about the whole "mary" mythology.
If Mary was Immaculate -- did she give birth to someone in true flesh?

And where is the emphases --
Jesus as God's Son?
Or Mary as the mother of God?

Well it seems you differ from what John said :
"AV 1Jn 2:18 . Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

"us" here are believers. Scriptures talks about two types of believers (or servants) faithful beleivers and wicked believers.


Ramses was an unbeliever. He doesn't fit the description of the antichrists that John was refering to.

I would suggest to first get the Biblical definition of the word "antichrist" and work our way from there.

Indeed, and here it is: "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus (of Nazareth) is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." (1 John 2:22-23)

As I said, it is self-evident that the Antichrist arises from the non-Christian sector of society. Many Christians were, are and will continue to be drawn away by him. That is what John meant when he said, "They (many antichrists) went out from us but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out (to follow THE Antichrist) that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (v. 19)

To suggest the the Papacy is THE Antichrist is like burying your head in the sand and shouting, "La-la-la-la-la-la!!!!!!!!" The Biblical definition lends itself rather to someone more in the vein of Josef Stalin, as in ancient times, Pharaoh Rameses: "Who is the Lord, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not The Lord, neither will I let Israel go." (Exod. 5:2)

///

You misapply and misinterpret the words of Paul, pulling 2 Cor. 11:14-15 completely out of its context. There, Paul was contrasting his labour of love for the Corinthians with the "fine and dandy Christian missionaries" coming after him and seeking to exploit their naivety. Earlier, he said, "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." (v. 2-3)

Even SDA fall for these ministers who travel about wanting to conduct seminars for thousands of dollars a pop and peddling CD and DVD and books and other paraphernalia.

///

It may be the purpose of Paul's discourse, but in comparing the "fine and dandy Christian missionaries coming after him", he does say "Did not even Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light?"

I would take this to mean that Satan marvelously transforms himself into an angel of light, no?

As which followed:
"Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works."

I would conclude dedication did not misapply and misinterpret the words.

That's why I said the part you left out, "Even SDA fall for these ministers who travel about wanting to conduct seminars for thousands of dollars a pop and peddling CD and DVD and books and other paraphernalia." Consider verse 7 (2 Cor. 11) and be wise, "Did I commit sin in humbling myself that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you free of charge?"

These ministers are only interested in licking their finger, lifting it up to feel where the wind is blowing, then ranting and raving in that direction. Paul concludes, "But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works." (v. 12-15)

BUT WHO IS THE ANTICHRIST?

He is not one who masquerades as or genuinely represents Christ. John says plainly that he is one who denounces and repudiates Jesus of Nazareth and denies that Jesus is Christ. (1 John 2:22) Here is your opportunity to pick him out from one of these: first and foremost, the Jews; or the Muslims; or the Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, etc.; or the Atheists; or any one of the many non-Christian affiliations.

///

Deception -- the antichrist is about deception.
2 Thess. 2

This isn't just about a tyrant, but about deception.

The Reformers didn't have their heads in the sand singing La la --
They knew who the antichrist was.
They stood against him at the very peril of their lives, hundreds being burned at the stake or suffering other tortuous deaths due to the papal inquisitions and crusades.
Thanks to the reformers valiant courage the western world emerged out of the dark ages controlled by the "antichrist", and the light of Christ's righteousness began to shine once again, the truth of the Bible became available to people.

You think "denying Christ" is only those who openly say they don't believe in Him.
There are other ways to deny Christ?

People can still give lip service to their belief in Christ, while denying Christ in their actions and life purpose.
People can "use" the name of Christ, to further their own oppressive and tyrannical purposes.

What did the major Protestant Reformers teach about the Antichrist? Whether you agree with them or not, it is important to realize what they actually taught.

They KNEW what the papal power was all about. They experienced it first hand.
And don't think it won't be like that again once the power of the state is in the hands of the papacy.

Martin Luther (1483-1546)





John Calvin (1509-1564)

American Bible Commentator, Ralph Woodrow, reminds us,

"There are two great truths that stand out in the preaching that brought about the Protestant Reformation, The just shall live by faith, not by the works of Romanism and the Papacy is the Antichrist of Scripture.'

It was a message for Christ and against Antichrist. The entire Reformation rests upon this twofold testimony'"

Do you appeal to Martin Luther, John Calvin and Ralph Woodrow on questions about the Sabbath as well? Or do you recognize that scriptural understanding is progressive and that greater light shines now than in their day?

Consider 1 John 4:3, "every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: AND THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

All non-Christians deny that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ; and from thence comes THE Antichrist.

///

But you in no way addressed what I pointed out.

And asking who the antichrist is distracts from what I pointed out.

But I did address it.

You pointed out that “[Satan’s] ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness.” And I concurred by saying, "Even SDA fall for these ministers who travel about wanting to conduct seminars for thousands of dollars a pop and peddling CD and DVD and books and other paraphernalia;" whereas Paul ministered to the Corinthians free of charge (2 Cor. 11:7).

Then I asked about THE Antichrist, the topic of this thread.

Hope this helps; and we can move on to discussing the matter at hand, RE: "every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. AND THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF THE ANTICHRIST, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world." (1 John 4:3)

///

Not only coming in the flesh, but coming in the likeness of sinful flesh...

I answered your post here: "What did Christ come to save us from".
This thread deals with another matter: "Biblical predictions of Antichrist and Sunday laws". Do you have anything to share about the matter?

///

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bore our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live to righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.

Romans 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Who do you believe is THE Antichrist?

///

THE Antichrist (being of non-Christian persuasion, see 1 John 4:3) will become a heavy burden on the Church. Many will fall on him and be broken (i.e. led astray to become like him) or crushed (that is brutally persecuted).

This falling away of the Church is what Jesus was warning against to the Laodiceans. He said:

"I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing' — and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked — I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent."

This will be the state of the Church when Jesus comes, just as it was in the days of Noah and of Lot. There will be no national Sunday Law, just nominal religion and an emphasis on living in the here and now without regard to eternal things. Already, the time is upon us.

///

"THE Antichrist (being of non-Christian persuasion..."

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who calls me ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven—only those who do the will of my Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to me at the day of judgment, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name and drive out demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’ 23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Leave me, you people who practice wickedness!’*

Jesus was not speaking of THE Antichrist. See 1 John 4:3. It says, "every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:and this is that spirit of antichrist,"

Those who "prophesy in your name and drive out demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name" celebrate the Incarnation, unlike the Antichrist.

///

The antichrist is described in 2 Thess. 2
There he is called "the man of sin".



Verse 3.
A falling away --- apostasy.
The falling away here is religious.
This falling away within the Christian community precedes the rise of the "man of sin"; the apostasy is the cause of his appearance.



Verse 4. - He opposes -- what does he oppose?
The object of opposition is not so much believers, as opposing Christ; for he is antichrist, the opponent of Christ.

But he is NOT Satan, for 2 Thessalonians 2:9 shows he is the instrument of Satan.

How does he oppose Christ? Not by denying Him. No, but by elevating himself above Christ!

And "exalteth himself above all that is called God".
Not only is he against the heathen gods, outlawing paganism, but also against the true God (comp. Daniel 7:25; Daniel 11:36).
Or that is worshipped;
he places himself above everything that is worshipped. The same word that is used in Acts 17:23,

So that he as God.
He claims the full authority to speak as the ultimate voice of God.

Sitteth in the temple of God.

Paul to compares believers in particular, or the Church in general, to the temple of God (see 1 Corinthians 3:17; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 2:20-22).
Thus this antichrist "sits" (or is enthroned) in the Christian church.


Showing - exhibiting - himself that he is God.

NOT like the Roman emperors to be acknowledged as one of many gods, but he claims for himself to be the very voice of God.


Assuming to himself all power in heaven and in earth, taking upon himself the authority to get rid of God's law (the 2nd commandment) or change God's law (the fourth commandment) and to make new ones.

He opposes Christ in his priestly office, by pretending to offer him up again in the sacrifice of the mass, and even thinking to create Christ within the wafer.


He opposes Christ in his priestly office by making dead people saints and intercessors and advocates.


And yes, he also denies that Jesus came in human flesh.
The whole fabricated doctrine of Mary's immaculate conception ---that is Mary by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, supposedly did not inherit the sinful nature common to all Adam's descendants.
Therefore she could pass on to Jesus a perfect nature unlike that of any other human.

Beware lest pride goeth before the fall!

Here is a quick summary:

Revelation 17 has a beast with 7 heads

5 are fallen (Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, and John-Paul I)

1 is which was John-Paul II

one is to come for a short space (Benedict XVI)

7 is the number of completeness for the church until the end of time.

the 7th head was Benedict. He continued for a short space. His ascension year began April 2005.
His first year was 2006 and for him to fulfill this prophecy, he could not remain in office beyond March 29, 2013 because:

Revelation 17 is about Babylon (papal Babylon)

Babylon's kings counted their rule from New Year's Day to New Year's Day (probably around 29 March on the Gregorian Calendar)

If Benedict had remained in office beyond 29 March 2013, his tenure would have exceeded the number of completeness. By leaving in February, his tenure was a "short space"

The judgment hour of the dead commenced 22 October 1844 at which time the papacy was DEAD having received its deadly wound 10 February 1798.

Revelation 18:6 states "reward her double"
The reward is determined the judgment hour.

Sin is limited to 6,000-years followed by a 1000-year Sabbath. God made the earth in 6-days and rested the Sabbath. Satan's creation (sin) does likewise in the context that a day with the LORD is as 1000-years.

On a 1000-year continuum an hour is 83-years 4-months

The judgment of the dead began on 22 October 1844 -- thus the dead papacy was judged for 83-years 4 months through 22 February 1928.

Then Mussolini restored the kingdom the Pope Pius XI in 1929. Thus the judgment of the living papacy began on the Day of atonement 14 October 1929 and it continued for 83-years 4-months to end 14 February 2013.

Benedict XVI's short space ended when the prophetic hour of Revelation 17 ended. The restored papacy with one head/pope at a time ended at that time as well.

Revelation is the supplement of the book of Daniel. Much of the history in Daniel will be repeated.

Ancient Babylon had two kings when it fell: Belshazzar and Nabonidus.

Moments before Cyrus entered the banqueting chamber, Daniel was declared the third ruler in the kingdom.

There are now 2 popes: the head of the beast and false prophet. Satan (the dragon) will appear immediately before Christ comes. His appearing as Pope John-Paul II will completed the unholy trinity (dragon, beast, false prophet).

The last events will be rapid ones. Some will have much to unlearn and learn again to be prepared for Jesus' Return.

Benedict is in his 90's. God is not going to take long to wrap up the sin problem.

If you want the Bible verses and Spirit of Prophecy references, it is in my newest book.

His Child, thank for stating your position in such a succinct way. The fact you can do so speaks volumes. It must be thrilling to believe Jesus will return before Pope Benedict passes - a shot time, indeed. Do you also believe Jesus will return while President Obama is in office?

I have a hard time believing Jesus could not return before 1929 or 2013. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your 83.4 year application?

I believe the "little horn," the "man of sin," the "antichrist," and the "beast" symbolize the same church-state coalition that will enforce the "mark of the beast" during the "time of trouble". The entire world will be divided into two groups: 1) the minority who live in harmony with the seal of God, and 2) the majority who live harmony with the mark of the beast.

What does it mean to deny that Christ came in the flesh? That is what we need to know.

One way is to deny that Christ ever came, that the whole thing was a farce. However many do admit that He came, that He was a good man, but was not divine, that He was not the Son of God. These people deny that Christ came in the flesh and are therefore deceived by the spirit of antichrist. Another way to deny that Christ came in the flesh is to deny some essential port of His work, while still professing to believe on Him. This is the Matthew 7:21-23 class of people, and may be the most insidious of all!!!

John 1 says that Christ was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God, and that the word was made flesh and dwelt among us and was full of grace. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, 2 Corinthians 5:19. Christ came to save sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15. The grace of Christ brings salvation, Titus 2:11. In Him dwelt the fullness of God bodily (in the flesh), Colossians 2:9. In His favor (grace) is life, Psalms 30:5. In Him was life and the life was the light of men, John 1:4. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten sin, that whosever beliveth in Him shall not parish, but have everlasting life, John 3:16.

If Christ had not come, all men would have perished. He that believes on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son shall not see life, John 3:36. 1 John 5:10-12 He that believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself: he that believes not God has made him a liar; because he believes not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life. John 10:9-10 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

These text proved that Christ was manifested for the purpose of giving life. Therefore those that deny that Christ alone gives life, that man has life in himself, that man is immortal, is denying that Christ came in the flesh and has the spirit of antichrist, for they are denying the essential port of Christ's work. Denying the very thing that he was manifested in the flesh to do! The doctrine of hell is one such denial. And who teaches that?

Hypocritical Christians deny Jesus. They say but do not. "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." Matthew 23:3. This is a spirit (attitude) of antichrist - one of many.

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Dear Mountain Man,

It has been a long time.

You have asked me about Christ returning while Obama is President before.

I don't know if I answered it directly before of side stepped.

In the 1800's, it was not possible to say that Christ would return within 5-years or 20.

But now that the prophecies have fulfilled and Revelation is explaining Daniel by their fulfillment, as I currently read prophecy -- unless something not yet understood comes to light-- Christ can come while Obama is in office or within the first year of his successor. But I would suspect while Obama is in office.

I'm sorry; but that is your high and exalted opinion to cover your prophet. The Bible says otherwise about the Antichrist. Four times the word is mentioned and ONLY by John in his epistles:

• 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
• 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
• 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
• 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

It is evident, comparing scripture with like-scripture (the right thing to do), that:


... something which only non-Christians do. For refusing to make such confession is made with the mouth as Pharaoh Ramses, "Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord, nor will I let Israel go." (Exod. 5:2) Secondly, John said that the spirit of the Antichrist was present in his day and that his was "the last hour", i.e. the time of the fall of Jerusalem. Read Acts 12.

///

James P. why are you narrowing and seeing with only tunnel vision things in order to avoid the many references to the "man of sin" the "antichrist" the "beast" etc etc.
God has given amble evidence that mankind need not be deceived on this matter.


If anti-Christ is merely someone who refuses to acknowledge that there was a historical Jesus Who is the Christ, then there were and are millions of anti-christs in the world and it means absolutely nothing as far as believers are concerned, except that they failed to spread the gospel effectively.

If you narrow it all down to those four verses then what is there to worry about? There's no threat to Christians.

But I doubt that you yourself narrow it down to those four verses, because you seem to believe an antichrist is yet coming after the nature of Stalin. How do you get that out of those four verses? They say nothing about a dictator or a persecutor.

This "tunnelling" is simply a ploy to blindfold people to the descriptions of the great deception that will sweep so many into perdition and loss of eternal life, because the DECEPTION is within Christianity.

Incorrect. Read Acts 12, the entire chapter.

///

Thank you for answering my question. I hear you saying Jesus will return within President Obama's term which includes the first year of the next president.

James, did you overlook this post?

Did I quote any prophet? You attack me but not my argument. Very interesting. Christians, so called, do very well deny Christ and His mission.

Actually you just proved me CORRECT.

I wrote:
"I doubt that you yourself narrow it down to those four verses, because you seem to believe an antichrist is yet coming after the nature of Stalin. How do you get that out of those four verses? They say nothing about a dictator or a persecutor."

So now you jump to Acts 12 and try to make Herod the "antichrist"? But there is nothing there that says anything about an antichrist.

Previously you were so dogmatic that only those FOUR VERSES in the apostle John's letters, talked about and identified antichrist, but now you go to Acts 12 to identify him??????

Herod was not the antichrist,
though like hundreds of thousands of others he had a "spirit" of antichrist in him. The same "spirit that now works in the children of disobedience" Eph 2.2
And indeed, antichrist is a persecutor.

Herod did not deny that Jesus was come in the flesh,
he, like most of the Jews over which he ruled, knew Jesus came in the flesh, they denied that He was Divine.

Herod was a p-u-p-p-e-t of the Roman Empire, and acted very much like his masters. Besides he was already long dead by the time the apostle John wrote those passages about a coming antichrist.

You seem to be coming from a preterist way of thinking.
Both preterism and futurism were developed by Catholic scholars who were desperate to get the clear finger of prophecy which was pointing to the papacy as the antichrist to point at something else.

At first their theories didn't take hold, but when a few Protestants started popularizing these theories they started to push aside the historicist understanding until now Protestantism has for the most part completely forgotten their heritage and are the big promoters of both preterism and futurism!!

The reformation that finally broke the tyrannical hold of the papacy over the souls of men and women, was totally united on that point -- the papacy is the Biblical predicted antichrist.

That tyrannical system received a deadly wound and lost it's political hold over the people -- lost the power to use the sword to force people into their religion,
For the last 200 or so years people, at least in the western world, have enjoyed unprecedented religious freedom.

But the same antichrist is again rising to ever increasing political influence and power over kings and rulers and peoples. Prophecy predicted its wound would heal. The evidence is everywhere apparent! There is just too much evidence -- historically and present day -- the reformers were correct, they knew who the antichrist was.

I doubt that you read Acts 12, the entire chapter. Did I not say that the Antichrist comes in the vein of Pharoah Rameses? Again I urge you to stick with the BIBLICAL DEFINITION of who the Antichrist is, as given by John; and not be seduced by false prophecy.

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• 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
  .
• 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
  .
• 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
  .
• 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

THEREFORE, BIBLICALLY, ONLY NON-CHRISTIANS ARE ANTICHRIST.

///

James, thank you for replying to my post. I agree antichrist is not a Christian - even if they profess to be one. What about the "little horn," the "man of sin," and the "beast"?

1. NON-Christians do not profess to be Christians.

2. THE Antichrist is non-Christian, and is "the man of sin" = "the beast".

3. For those two reasons and Jesus' own words in Luke 17:26-30, there is no "National Sunday Law" to come.

///

Many professed Christians - are not Christians. There for antichrist can be a "Christian".

Thank you for your opinion; but it is not biblically sound according to the epistles of John. See post #166134 just above.

///

2 Corinthians 11:3-14
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another gospel, which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him.
5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very most chief apostles.
6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been thoroughly made manifest among you in all things.
7 Have I committed an offense in abasing myself that you might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brothers which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome to you, and so will I keep myself.
10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
11 Why? because I love you not? God knows.
12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

MM

You are welcome. I don't know the day or hour or if Obama will leave office as scheduled or extend his term due to a national crisis.

I do know that it is time to be serious about our relationship with Jesus and to be sure of our calling and to make every effort to get the three angels' message to the world.

The last events will be rapid ones. Like dominoes in rapid succession. I am amazed at how difficult it is to awaken the sleeping saints.

God bless His people everywhere,

If Matthew 7:15 is rightly understood "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" light might come to those who will see.

Paul is evidently not taling about the Antichrist. He is speaking about those who go about seeking money by offering to do Bible seminars and peddling books and CD and DVD and other paraphernalia.

///

If you are right, if prophecy says Jesus will return within President Obama's term or before Pope Benedict dies - then, indeed, we must wake up and proclaim the 3AM like never before. I hope you are right. If so, the USA will start enforcing Sunday Laws soon. It will be Headline News soon.

SDA commit many sins and this is one: they speak of the Antichrist completely outside the context of the term. Because of this gross error of interpretation, their prophetic doctrine suffers dissonance and discord. But look carefully at how John defines the term.

• 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
  -
• 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
  -
• 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
  -
• 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

1. The Antichrist is someone who comes AFTER Christ.
2. He is the epitome of the "spirit of antichrist".
3. He denies that Jesus is the Christ, i.e. says Jesus of Nazareth IS NOT THE MESSIAH.

"Saying Jesus IS NOT THE MESSIAH" is refusing to confess that the Saviour Messiah (Jesus Christ in Greek transliteration) was incarnated; repudiating John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

But ALL Christians, whether in lip-service or sincerely, confess that Jesus is the Christ. Only a non-Christian is Antichrist; and since such is coming then the Bible prophesies the ascendancy of Atheism and/or "Heathenism". What then about those who prophesy saying, "Sunday laws are coming! Sunday laws are coming!" I say to you, if Matthew 7:15 is rightly understood "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" light might come to them who will see.

///

So you don't consider it a possibility that the USA will start enforcing Sunday Laws soon, but yet Jesus doesn't return during Obama's presidency?

Do you not consider that the USA IS enforcing "Sunday laws" today? Maybe it's "states" instead.

I'm aware of some religions, who consider themselves Christian, who say that Jesus was a created being, denying that the Word was God in the flesh, but is "a" god.

Is it Buddhists believe that Jesus did indeed exist and was a "good man"? But doesn't believing that "Christ came in the flesh" mean something more than what Buddhists believe?

God revealed the identity of the anti Christ to a whole movement a good 200 years before there was an Adventist.

The Protestant Reformation in the 1500s literally changed the course of history bringing true religious freedom to the world and allowing the truth of our Savior Jesus Christ to be proclaimed.

For over a thousand years a system that CALLED ITSELF CHRISTIAN had hidden the true Savior, Jesus Christ, from the people. It changed God's laws, and set itself up as the ones with the "keys" to heaven that even God had to obey their decisions. When the light of truth shone forth to dispel the darkness of the papal church oppression it was because those reformers KNEW WHO THE ANTICHRIST WAS!!!!!

Of course the devil knows how to manipulate things to keep his "antichrists" in power.
He has now used religious freedom to bring in a host of unchristian things, which will be/and already is, used as an argument that the world needs a "pope" to align it on the "right path".

Don't kid yourself --
It is coming.
Sunday law and a world wide forced false worship that will call itself "Christian".




John is not limiting his definitions, but giving examples.

Notice he is saying there are MANY "antichrists".
Many are coming with wrong messages about Christ.

Anyone that denies Christ's divinity is NOT teaching about Christ correctly.

Anyone that denies the relationship between God the Father and Jesus is not teaching about Christ correctly.

Anyone that claims Jesus was not in human flesh, but in some superior form is not teaching about Christ correctly.

There are many deceptive teachings about Christ in the world. Almost all have some truth coupled with some error.
Just because a person has one part CORRECT does not mean they can't be antichrist.

Satan himself believes Christ is the Son of God and that He came in the flesh, and he has no trouble allowing his representatives to say the same if it furthers his purposes. (Mark 1:24; 5:7; Luke 4:34; Acts 16:17)


///

Atheism and other forms of denial of the true God, has been in the world since the time of Nimrod. Atheism in modern times had its primary rise over 50 years ago. People in general today are tired of atheism and are turning more and more to spiritualistic forms to try to meet their spiritual needs. Spiritualistic forms (Christianized New Age) is invading the churches at an alarming rate.

It may interest you that Jesuits and some other Catholic orders were key leaders in "Christianized New Age" --
Teilhard de Chardin for one -- during his lifetime looked upon with some distrust is now quite a sought after writer. The Dominican Matthew Fox, was another. And now we have a Jesuit Pope!

Bible prophecy tells us the last crises is concerns WORSHIP!
It's not about atheism, it's about worship.

Count the number of times the word WORSHIP, both false and true, is used in Rev. 13-14.

The last day Antichrist system is a COUNTERFEIT worship system.
And the main points of identification of the true worship are:

1. They worship the CREATOR God. Links Rev. 14:7 with Ex. 20:11 (Most Christians have now thrown out the six day creation week and believe in a "Christianized" evolution which opens the door to a flood of false beliefs on salvation, sin, the Sabbath, and God's power to create.

2. They keep the commandments of God. (Rev. 12:17; 14:12)

3. They have the faith of Jesus (Rev. 14:12; 3:20




False Christ's are coming, (Matt. 24:24; Mark 13:22)
prophecy is being re-interpreted to hide truth.
The test will be over the CREATOR GOD, and the sign of His Creation.
Those Who walk with the Lamb (Jesus our Savior) will keep his commandments and grow strong in faith in Him.

Sunday laws will be part of the last great "worship" deception.

WORKAHOLISM IN AMERICA IS HURTING THE ECONOMY
Hmmm. How can we best fix that problem. Hmmm...

Hmmmm. Wasn't it Europe who's economy was so bad, the ones who are guaranteed a vacation? And the idea of sick pay irritates me as if you are not sick, you lose out. Liberalism: everyone pays for the benefit of the select few. But then again, maybe everyone suddenly feels sick at the end of the year...

The gist of what I'm saying, is that actual facts do not matter, the article makes several illogical jumps, but it's the people who will blindly believe it and will demand that laws are passed.

That was out of place, but most likely the main intent.

Bingo!

kland - the whole paragraph sets the agenda... "We’re even one of just 16 countries that doesn’t make sure that workers get at least some time off during the seven-day week. That weekend most of us enjoy come Friday night is not backed up by American policy, but instead is a voluntary employer perk."

If this power is non-Christian, why is it related to an apostasy from the faith?

2Ts 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for that day cannot come without the coming of the apostasy first, and the appearing of the man of sin, the son of perdition

Do not be seduced by current events or false prophecy as at the beginning when William Miller stood up and said, "I KNOW the day and hour" and was proved false. The word of God will not fail.

• 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
  -
• 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
  -
• 1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
  -
• 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

According to John here, as well as the Gospels, there is one coming who repudiates Jesus Christ, saying He (Jesus) was not the Messiah nor was He the Son of God Incarnate. Such a one is non-Christian, since only non-Christians refuse to acknowledge that Jesus of Nazareth is the Saviour of the world. As Communism was to the Catholics, so Atheism will be to the Protestants.

In turning away from Jesus Christ, the Jews vehemently shouted, "We have no king but Caesar!" And indeed THE Antichrist ruled over them with an iron fist. Have you not read about the events leading up to the fall of Jerusalem? History just keeps repeating itself, over and over again. There is no "National Sunday Law" to come but SDA will drift into cultic zenophobia over the Sabbath. As for the rest of the denominations, because they have become brittle, cold and lifeless, God will give them over to their own king, a man just like their inner faithless spirit, who will crush their faces in the dust: THE Antichrist.

The world is barreling to such an age, one of wanton disregard for religion and the exaltation of human potential and the pursuit of wealth. "Where is your God," they will ask. "Let Him come and save you." Jesus said, "because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved." (Mat. 24:12-13)

///

Apostasy in the people of God leads to their fall in the hands of the godless. Don't you read the Bible? I suggest you study the history of Israel and see the work of God.

///

God says the opposite.

He says, "in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power." (2 Tim. 3:1-5)

We ought not to bury our heads in the sand of false prophecy, but believe what God tells us in the Holy Scriptures.

///

?? You are comparing apples and oranges. The Bible must be read correctly.
What I read in the OT is that apostasy led the people of God to fall in the hands of the godless physically.
What I read in 2 Thessalonians is that this apostasy will lead many professed Christians to accept the man of sin in the temple of God (the church) as if he was god, and that they will worship him (Rev. 13:8).

Do you think it is fulfilling prophecy? Is it what Ellen White described in the Great Controversy book?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Would you mind summarizing your view of the mark of the beast?

The "man of sin"/"the lawless one" is discussed twice in the second epistle to the Thessalonians. You are familiar with and are quoting the second reference. But consider the two side by side and you will understand more clearly that THE Antichrist is non-Christian.


Notice the contrast between those who believe that Jesus is the Messiah and those who neither "know God nor obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ"; and that it is the latter who are destroyed at the Second Advent.


It is VERY evident then:

1. that those who do NOT receive the love of the truth are those who do NOT believe the truth
2. that those who do NOT know God are those who do NOT obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
3. that they all are of the spirit of the "lawless one"

Therefore, the "lawless one" is the "man of sin" and THE Antichrist and is NOT A CHRISTIAN. He comes in the vein of Pharaoh Rameses saying, "Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord, nor will I let Israel go." A modern equivalent is Josef Stalin. And there is worse to come NOT any National Sunday Laws, but open defiance in Atheism.

///

I'm sorry, but I didn't follow what you are trying to say. What does people believing a lie and demanding laws have to do with false prophecy?

I wasn't saying it was or was not fulfilling prophecy. I was addressing that you said Sunday laws were not being enforced.

But you would consider the antichrist is religious, right?

I do not believe Sunday Laws are being enforced in fulfillment of prophecy. Do you?

"People believing a lie and demanding laws" have been taken to be the fulfillment of prophecy here: that the Bible predicts the Antichrist will institute a National Sunday Law in the USA. I contend that it does not; and furthermore, that the Antichrist is NOT A CHRISTIAN. As proof, I offer the epistles of John ( here, post #166211 ) and of Paul to the Thessalonians ( here, post #166230 ).

This thread was set up to discuss the matter.

///

Religious? No.

This is how Paul speaks of him: "the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." (2 Thes. 2:3-4).

This is someone who bluntly and blatantly challenges God. In the very temple of God he sets himself up as God Himself. In other words, as Pharaoh Rameses said, "Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord, nor will I let Israel go." The Antichrist is NOT A CHRISTIAN and is NOT RELIGIOUS, but the epitome of unadulterated Atheism.

///

Is the pope a Christian?

I will answer your question from the perspective of Revelation 13 here.

///

Who knows? Pope Francis might be a Christian. But some of his theology is not biblical.

I will do so here.

///

That I doubt very seriously for the fact that he is a Jesuit and has made vows concerning the overthrow of the Protestant churches that no one filled with any part of the Spirit of God could make.

He knows what he is doing. That is why the Jesuits are called corpses for the pope. Jesuits claim to be "Perend ac Cadaver" as disciplined as a corpse to be carried by the will of the pope. A corpse for the pope has been elected as pope, so who's will is he being carried by now? This is the man of sin we have been waiting for. The Son of Perdition.

Pope Francis is completely sold out to the Spirit that pervades the fallen church or he wouldn't be the pope in this day.

I would venture to say that since Pope John Paul II there has been a slow attrition of any leader inside that church that has any true guidance from God.

With the full blown efforts to make Mary co-redemptrix and mediator they crossed the line.

You amaze me with your support of this pope.

With someone who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God doesn't sound like you could say, "No".

If someone shows himself that he is God, are you saying he wasn't making a religious claim?

2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 is not referring specifically to the antichrist, but to all those who will be destroyed at Christ’s coming. But you cannot interpret “those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” as meaning just non-Christians, otherwise only non-Christians would be lost at Christ’s coming, and this is not at all the case, as Jesus Himself showed us:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness'" (Matt 7:21-23).


What is VERY evident is:
A. That among those who do not receive the love of the truth there are many Christians who disobey the truth
B. That those Christians who do not do “the will of My Father in heaven” obviously “do not know God and ... do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
C. That many Christians have the spirit of the “lawless one” and are called “workers of lawlessness”

i.e., there are many christians who are not Christians.

How do I support Pope Francis?

But THE Antichrist is a non-Christian. John, the prophet of The Lord said, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Messiah? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." (1 John 2:22)

Only non-Christians say Jesus is not the Messiah.

///

No. Paul says, "He sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." He actually scorns religion and is challenging God to prove himself, saying in effect, that there is no God.

///

This is not true at all. First, John in this passage is speaking of Christians ("They went out from us" - v. 19).
Second, he is saying that the antichrist par excellence would deny that Jesus is the Christ, that is, the true Christ that was spoken of by all the prophets: a Christ that would be both true man (Gen. 3:15) and true God (Isa. 7:14); that would be the Savior of mankind, dying for their sins (Isa. 53:5, 6) and justifying those who accepted Him (Isa. 53:11); a Christ that would be the High Priest - Intercessor and Mediator - of mankind (Ps 110:4).

Anyone who denies any of these characteristics of Christ is an antichrist, but the negation would be stronger on the part of a Christian:

2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who secretly will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction.

So I don't see any logic in the argument that the antichrist is a non-Christian.

No, you aren't saying he wasn't making a religious claim? That is, you ARE saying he was making a religious claim? But it sounds you intend he wasn't making a religious claim.


Why does the antichrist challenge God to prove Himself? Because he sits as God. He demands worship due to God. Do you say pharaoh and Egypt was not about religion. What about the controversy between God and satan, is what is under question, religious?

I think you are not distinguishing between religion and Christianity. What does "worship" mean to you when the Bible uses it as such: "and they worshipped the beast, "?

Should we believe that Adventists will be confronted with Sunday laws as a direct confrontation to the word of God?
It was not that way in Eden. Why would Satan do a direct assault now?





Through his agents Satan "deceiveth them that dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14). Where is the deception in a frontal assault?







Daniel and John explain that the 4 kingdoms (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome) were the understanding of Daniel that sealed the validity of the prophecy. The endtime meaning that was unsealed when history met prophecy was that the 4 beasts depict 4 kings from the earth (Daniel 7:17)

The earth is identified in Revelation 13. The beast with the lamblike horns arises from the earth. The 4 earth-kings are presidents: Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Obama (the last 2 are as though they were one like pagan & papal Rome).

Some claim that Obama is Muslim claiming to be Christian.

Obama is compelling Christians to provide birth control against their religious beliefs... He lost that fight in court, but said that he would work around the court decision. That Supreme Court decision wrote into the law of the land that the religious beliefs of some (the employers) are better than those of others (the women employees).

Did you not notice that one of antichrist's characteristics is COMPULSION? He compels the world to receive his mark in their hand or forehead. Seventh-day Adventists that rationalize that buying into an Obama monetary system is not the Mark of the beast because it is not linked initially with the Sabbath question will be shocked when rapid changes link it. They can't opt out. They are overcome with despair. Then those Christians that refused to take the Mark of the Beast see it linked to Sabbath vs Sunday and they are enlightened to the Sabbath issue or convinced that it is ok because it uplifts Sunday sacredness.

His Child, interesting idea - the mark of the beast includes issues not tied to Sunday Laws. SDAs can receive the mark of the beast while sincerely, strictly observing the Sabbath. Never thought of it in that light before. Not sure I agree.

In Eden it was a direct confrontation to the Word of God?

Genesis 3:1 And he said unto the woman, Yea, did God say, You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

What was God's word concerning the TEST?

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die.

So yes, it was a direct attack on exactly the thing that God told them not to do.

The agents used to make the attack did not change the fact that it was a direct attack on what God had told them.





True, Satan will try to sneak in this assault and to do his best to make it seem like a "godly" move rather than a confrontation on God's law.
We see this happening in the way the Sunday movement is now being pushed -- as a great family day -- save the family thing.
Don't be such a fundamentalist (they say) to think God is so particular as to a day, we need the peace and family strengthening element of a common day that focuses on Christ's love -- God wants us to follow the pope who is working to bring peace to the world.
Those are the sentiments the cunning serpent is now using to break down the resistance.

Don't be deceived -- it is a direct confrontation on GOD'S LAW and what we have been warned WILL BE THE FINAL TEST when all the world worships the beast rather than following the ONE WHO MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH (Rev. 14:7) in six days and sanctified and blessed the seventh day (Gen. 2:2-3) and placed it in the center of His commandments (Ex. 20) asking us to remember it.

God's saints are the ones who follow the LAMB, not the pope, and are defined as by "the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (Rev. 14:4,12)







This will be the method to enforce obedience to the confrontation of God's law.

Now its quite true that things are being arranged right now that will make it extremely difficult for people when the test comes, and the more tangled up we get with government "tracking" things, the more difficult it will be then. But the SIGN of allegiance or "mark of the beast" or "the seal of God" will be manifest in whose laws we keep.

Romans 6:16 Don't you know, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


"An apostate church will unite with the powers of earth and hell to place upon the forehead or in the hand, the mark of the beast, and prevail upon the children of God to worship the beast and his image. They will seek to compel them to renounce their allegiance to God's law, and yield homage to the papacy."
{RH, November 8, 1892 par. 7}







Of course this is where we disagree. Having read your posts for a good 20 years now, it is interesting how your new definition of beasts has changed over the years with each new election.

Daniel's beast (chapter 7) rose from the sea. Just because the interpreting angel while explaining the symbols says those beasts represent kingdoms on earth does not give license to turn the explanation into new symbols.

The beast from the symbolic meaning of "earth" in Rev. 13 is the US, and we can trace the development of the attack on the constitution back further than Regan.
Even by the time of Clinton people were saying he was the last, and things were ripe for the end. Now of course it's even more "ripe"!

Is Obama the last? I don't know, he could be, but if he was to be say impeached (just goggle Obama and impeached and see how many are lobbying for that to happen) "to save America" things could go quite differently, and rapidly as well.



Very important quote !!!
I find there are a host of confusing RE-INTERPRETATIONS being presented, -- attempts to confuse the understanding of the real issues that will come, by presenting other issues.

Not sure about the "sincerely" part --
But yes, some who are now keeping Sabbath strictly may still receive the mark of the beast --

Why?

Because they are doing it in their own righteousness, and power, and like Peter, when facing persecution will fail.

Dedication, you and I have differed on this point for probably more than 15-years. You read Daniel 7 from a historicist's perspective that takes the seal of God on Daniel 7 (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome) and makes it the endtime meaning.

I know that the 4-kingdom meaning cannot be the endtime meaning because the 4-kingdoms were understood in the 4th century AD, which was before the book of Daniel was unsealed and opened in 1798 and beyond. Thus to take a meaning that was settled before the prophecy was opened and to see it as the meaning that was to be opened when Daniel and Revelation explain themselves in the endtime when men run to and fro cannot be correct.

My understanding has not been perfect. I called GW as the last President in 2001. Then Obama came and I learned that as Daniel 7 depicted pagan and papal Rome as one, these two men are depicted as one. Some err by faulting me for that.



When we remember how God led the early Adventists in the past, they were wrong in 1843. Jesus did not come. They were wrong in 1844. Jesus did not come. Then they were right in 1844: the Sanctuary message is TRUTH but we cannot prove it aside from faith. Early Adventists had a 30% prophecy quotient. That is 1/3 of their prophetic understanding in 1844 was right, but they could not prove it apart from faith.

I understand that Obama is America's last President because Daniel 7:17 explains that the sea beasts that Daniel saw are 4 kings that shall arise from the earth. Heaven's endtime interpretation does not need to be reinterpreted. The prophetic earth is clearly identified in Revelation 13. Thus the 4 kings (American Presidents) are identifiable when Daniel and Revelation explain themselves in these last days.

Then God blessed me with my 30% prophetic quotient (see #165889) that I declared by faith. From 9/3/11 to 9/30/12 I tweeted that Pope Benedict was in his last year and concluded by saying "Pope #Benedict XVI As I read Daniel’s prophecy, 7’s number of completeness. His ascension year (zero) 2005. He might last till spring 2013? (30 September 2012)"

By faith, I declared what I understood as best as I understood it at the time I understood it and I kept studying and praying for the Holy Spirit to guide me into more understanding. "If we walk in the light as it shines upon us from the living oracles of God, we shall have large responsibilities, corresponding to the great light given us of God."

And I diligently sought out people to study with. I have shared my study with you and others on forums. And I gladly received comments. But alas if I ever misspoke in a post, the negative posts would come like poison pens, but when I tried to clarify my position, it rarely got past the moderator. The error would stand, but the truth would not see the light of day.

I am not responsible as to how others receive the light that I seek to share any more than the early Adventist pioneers that shared their light. A watchman tells what he sees. The hearers are responsible for how they respond.




Conclusion:
Is Daniel standing in his lot?
Are Daniel and Revelation explaining that President Obama is the last American President?

[My study of Daniel and Revelation shows that the kings from the earth (Dan 7:17) are Presidents:Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, & Obama. The healed papal-beast in Revelation 13 is the post-1929 papacy whose 7 popes: Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I & II, and Benedict XVI bonded with the 10-American Presidents: Truman (who called fire down from heaven on Hiroshima and Nagasaki), Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton. And the next beast that arises from the prophetic earth with the two lamblike horns is America with its two final Presidents: Bush II and Obama.]

Are those who only give my conclusions a passing glance going to understand or agree with them?
Can I do any different than the 5-wise virgins that sent the foolish ones to the Oil Merchant?

My practice is to study it in the Scriptures and then confirm it in the Spirit of Prophecy. Two exampleS: popes are heads and American Presidents are crowned heads.

While SDA's focus on the Sabbath, it comes across as though it is being said:

"If you believe the Sabbath truth, you cant be deceived into receiving the Mark of the beast."

But the Spirit of prophecy clearly says The Mark Of The Beast is exactly what it is said to be.

Then Ellen quotes Revelation receiving it in the forehead or hand. And the passage links to buying and selling.

So to take the position that 3ABN (for example) holds that if you have the Sabbath in your heart you cannot be deceived, is setting up would-be saints to be deceived.

How so?

Obamacare is a compulsory system to force everyone to buy health care.

Let's say that a scenario similar to this occurs: after the 2014 elections in USA the economy tanks. The dollar becomes worthless and is about to be replaced as the world reserve currency, so Obama is forced to go to a cashless economy that he claims will stop drug trafficking, sex slavery, money laundering, and will make Russia and China and everyone else who has a stash of dollars more accountable to the US because they cannot use any of their US $ reserves unless they accept the cashless economy. Then when the US sets up an embargo, they control the cashless currency flow and the country or people targeted can't buy or sell.

If SDA's rationalize that Obama is not involved in the beast's deception regulating buying and selling and they take part in this new economy, they are deceived as to who the beast is and they have his mark or they could not be using his system even though Sabbath and Sunday have not been the deciding issue at this point.

When it becomes the issue and the would-be saints awake to their true situation: the issue for them was obedience to God's command:

"They are represented by the third angel that followed, "saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." Revelation 14:9, 10.-- Testimonies, Vol. 7, pp. 138-140. (1902.)"

Adventists that claim to obey God's Sabbath command, but who fail to obey God's other commands are guilty of disregarding all of God's commandments.

Thus they will have deceived themselves to do that which God has clearly forbidden (they took the mark of the Beast in their forehead when they rationalized that it was ok to buy and sell because it was not linked to the Sabbath issue).

Thus Judgment begins at the Church. Then when the Sabbath is the issue; those who only knew not to take the mark in their hand or forehead will have to decide if the Sabbath is God's day of rest or if it is Sunday. And as they make their choice they will stand or fall.

[I have not been posting much for the last few months because I have been studying and writing all of this and so much more in my latest book. Please pray for that book. I declined to self-publish it and sent it to a very well known Publisher. Instead of a rejection letter, they actually have an editor reviewing it. PRAY THAT GOD'S WILL BE DONE.]



But in Daniel's experience, when the 70-years of captivity were ended, he did not assume that he should not pray earnestly for the restoration of the Temple just because God promised to restore it. Thus we too should pray earnestly that the Lord will wrap up this work in His own way.

His Child, again, another interesting idea. Not sure I understand the scenario you shared. How would doing business in a cashless society result in receiving the mark of the beast?

Mountain Man
That was a great question.

The gist of the post was

1) Barack Obama is identified as the man that sets up the abomination of desolation: National Sunday laws

2) The Mark of the Beast is exactly what it is said to be: compulsory control over buying and selling

3)God's command is DO NOT RECEIVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST IN THE HAND OR FOREHEAD

4) To rationalize that Obama is not the beast or that accepting his monetary controls is not the MARK OF THE BEAST is to believe that it is ok to receive it in the forehead.

5)An individual that buys into Obama's monetary system can't opt out when it is suddenly linked to Sunday keeping any more than Eve could uneat the forbidden fruit.

6) When the final confrontation with God's people links the MARK OF THE BEAST (Sunday sacredness with buying and selling), those who bought into the monetary change by rationalizing that it was not the mark of the beast are lost.

7)God's people are sealed in the forehead and discern the deception, but those who rationalize away a clear thus saith the Lord (don't take the MOB no matter what stage of development it is in) are already sealed in their foreheads by the beast due to their allegiance or their obedience to him.

I hope that clarifies it.

Thank you for the clarification. President Obama is going to be a busy man. He only has two years or so to implement a cashless system and Sunday Laws. The final movements will be rapid.

Does President Obama and Pope Francis have to be in office for things to play out according to prophecy? Or, can they start the ball rolling and then things finish up several years later?

Mountain Man,

You are welcome.

As I currently understand Daniel's prophecy in conjunction with Revelation:

The papal-beast of Revelation 13 began with 7 heads (popes ruling solo from 1929 thru 2013) it has changed its appearance because it now has two living popes.

Thus:

The beast has a retired pope and a sitting pope.
The image beast (America with the two lamblike horns) has a retired president and a sitting President.

The image beast looks like the papal-beast.

The only thing needed to make the image-beast reflect the current papal-beast is for Obama to implement a national Sunday law.





As I read Revelation 17-18, Satan will appear as Pope John-Paul II. (that explains the 3 frogs in Rev 16 = dragon, Satan as P-J II; beast, Francis I; and false prophet, Benedict XVI.) Satan can then point the world to Dies Domini and claim that while living he (Satan claiming to be P-J II) clearly explained that God changed Sabbath to Sunday as the Romanish Church had preached for years. And he can say touch me feel me like Christ said to Thomas, then he can point to "his" body in the Vatican crypt.

How far in the future do you think the two last great deceptions are? Benedict XVI is 91 and Obama (the one that Daniel 7 I.D.'s as the last president is a short timer (1/20/2017)? And we don't know if he could be impeached and the Catholic Joe Biden could rap it up???

And the characteristics of the horns on the American-beast are "Republicanism and Protestantism". Thus I expect that the November election is going to swing the Congress to the Republican Protestants. If that should be the case the vindictive uncompromising nature exhibited that shut down the government and almost did not raise the debt ceiling could box Obama into a corner.

You are not old enough to remember FDR, but Americans went to bed owning gold and while they slept FDR made gold ownership illegal. Silver certificates were implemented, and later it went to Federal Reserve Notes. Let's see what happens while we sleep with Obama at the helm and the economy is positioned to tank right after the next election when the current debt limit agreement is going to expire.

My money says that he is just as shrewd as FDR. Bye the way, Did you know that Obama has a Friday luncheon with several of the world's brightest economists weekly? He widens the circle to include liberals and conservatives and he solicits a wide range of ideas so he intentionally meets with different economists.

But rather than wonder about the timing, we should pray that God will show us our duties while remembering that as the blossoms on the tree are followed by its fruit; those things set in motion will be followed by the natural progression of the prophecies in their order. There is no suspension of time between the blossoms and the fruit bearing or in a pregnant woman's labor. The fetus develops in its normal cycle and the infant is born at the appointed time.

A cashless system is not necessarily mandatory to enforce the mark of the beast, but it would help.

Think about it like a universal Sam's club card. You will not be able to buy or sell unless you pledge allegiance to the image. It doesn't say you will not be able to have money. Just that you can't spend it or receive payment.

You could have a pocket full of gold and not be able to buy anything because you have not got the card. That would be very easy to implement.

The credit card system is the easiest way of seeing the enforcement of the mark because they could shut off your account electronically, but there are presently many national economic embargoes in place where the country has tons of cash but they can't buy or sell any goods because the United Nations says so. Those countries don't have credit cards because their banks cannot be connected to the world and nothing can be shipped there.

But how would turning off your debit card stop you from selling Gold to purchase things? It would have to be some other type of identifier that would keep the buyer from being able to receive it.

I used to think the meaning of "in your right hand or forehead" referred to bio-metrics, your finger print or your retinal scan, but now I have been show it means to be accepting or going along with the pledge to the image beast. The forehead is where you think, so they are believing in the Sunday law, and "in the right hand" is your works, signing your name to get along so they can buy or sell and continue to work to support their way of life.

Bio-metrics could still be part of the system but with everyone looking for that kind of mark it is not likely that those systems will be in place in time. In fact many communities who tried bio-metrics said it was great but no one wanted to do it. All the stores who have thumb print scans here in Minneapolis say it is very unpopular.

So no matter what kind of currency you have, digital, paper, precious metals, barter or bio-metrics, there will be a database saying you haven't accepted or pledged allegiance to the image beast so you are not permitted to buy or sell. That would be so easy it could happen tomorrow. Especially since everything is digitally connected NOW! Instantaneous record search.

"In Revelation we read concerning Satan: “And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast (Catholic church); saying to them that dwell on the earth (The earth beast; America), that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name” (Revelation 13:13-17)....{3SM 393.1}

Satan is the one who doth great wonders.

He has already brought fire down from heaven in the sight of the beast in Fatima Portugal.

One of over 100,000 witnesses said...
"I feel incapable of describing what I saw. I looked fixedly at the sun, which seemed pale and did not hurt my eyes. Looking like a ball of snow, revolving on itself, it suddenly seemed to come down in a zig-zag, menacing the earth. Terrified, I ran and hid myself among the people, who were weeping and expecting the end of the world at any moment." — Rev. Joaquim Lourenço, describing his boyhood experience in Alburitel, eighteen kilometers from Fatima.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

That was in 1917, less than two years after God's servant died, who could have told everyone what it was. Satan waited until she was gone to start his accepted apparitions.

Satan is giving power to the image to the beast right now with the Evangelical, Charismatic, Evangelical and Lutheran protestants signing ecumenical agreements and giving praise to the Harlot. The Spiritual manifestations of Satan are being supported by the image to the beast right now. They are manifesting their own special events to show the beast, and most Adventists are looking in the wrong place.

The current pope has dedicated the world to Mary according to the commands of Satan in Fatima in apparitions. Next he commands them to officially accept Mary as the Mediatrix of the world, the fifth Marian dogma.

We are much closer than anyone here even realizes.