2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 is not referring specifically to the antichrist, but to all those who will be destroyed at Christ’s coming. But you cannot interpret “those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” as meaning just non-Christians, otherwise only non-Christians would be lost at Christ’s coming, and this is not at all the case, as Jesus Himself showed us:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness'" (Matt 7:21-23).


What is VERY evident is:
A. That among those who do not receive the love of the truth there are many Christians who disobey the truth
B. That those Christians who do not do “the will of My Father in heaven” obviously “do not know God and ... do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
C. That many Christians have the spirit of the “lawless one” and are called “workers of lawlessness”

i.e., there are many christians who are not Christians.

How do I support Pope Francis?

But THE Antichrist is a non-Christian. John, the prophet of The Lord said, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Messiah? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." (1 John 2:22)

Only non-Christians say Jesus is not the Messiah.

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No. Paul says, "He sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." He actually scorns religion and is challenging God to prove himself, saying in effect, that there is no God.

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This is not true at all. First, John in this passage is speaking of Christians ("They went out from us" - v. 19).
Second, he is saying that the antichrist par excellence would deny that Jesus is the Christ, that is, the true Christ that was spoken of by all the prophets: a Christ that would be both true man (Gen. 3:15) and true God (Isa. 7:14); that would be the Savior of mankind, dying for their sins (Isa. 53:5, 6) and justifying those who accepted Him (Isa. 53:11); a Christ that would be the High Priest - Intercessor and Mediator - of mankind (Ps 110:4).

Anyone who denies any of these characteristics of Christ is an antichrist, but the negation would be stronger on the part of a Christian:

2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who secretly will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction.

So I don't see any logic in the argument that the antichrist is a non-Christian.

No, you aren't saying he wasn't making a religious claim? That is, you ARE saying he was making a religious claim? But it sounds you intend he wasn't making a religious claim.


Why does the antichrist challenge God to prove Himself? Because he sits as God. He demands worship due to God. Do you say pharaoh and Egypt was not about religion. What about the controversy between God and satan, is what is under question, religious?

I think you are not distinguishing between religion and Christianity. What does "worship" mean to you when the Bible uses it as such: "and they worshipped the beast, "?

Should we believe that Adventists will be confronted with Sunday laws as a direct confrontation to the word of God?
It was not that way in Eden. Why would Satan do a direct assault now?





Through his agents Satan "deceiveth them that dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14). Where is the deception in a frontal assault?







Daniel and John explain that the 4 kingdoms (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome) were the understanding of Daniel that sealed the validity of the prophecy. The endtime meaning that was unsealed when history met prophecy was that the 4 beasts depict 4 kings from the earth (Daniel 7:17)

The earth is identified in Revelation 13. The beast with the lamblike horns arises from the earth. The 4 earth-kings are presidents: Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Obama (the last 2 are as though they were one like pagan & papal Rome).

Some claim that Obama is Muslim claiming to be Christian.

Obama is compelling Christians to provide birth control against their religious beliefs... He lost that fight in court, but said that he would work around the court decision. That Supreme Court decision wrote into the law of the land that the religious beliefs of some (the employers) are better than those of others (the women employees).

Did you not notice that one of antichrist's characteristics is COMPULSION? He compels the world to receive his mark in their hand or forehead. Seventh-day Adventists that rationalize that buying into an Obama monetary system is not the Mark of the beast because it is not linked initially with the Sabbath question will be shocked when rapid changes link it. They can't opt out. They are overcome with despair. Then those Christians that refused to take the Mark of the Beast see it linked to Sabbath vs Sunday and they are enlightened to the Sabbath issue or convinced that it is ok because it uplifts Sunday sacredness.

His Child, interesting idea - the mark of the beast includes issues not tied to Sunday Laws. SDAs can receive the mark of the beast while sincerely, strictly observing the Sabbath. Never thought of it in that light before. Not sure I agree.

In Eden it was a direct confrontation to the Word of God?

Genesis 3:1 And he said unto the woman, Yea, did God say, You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

What was God's word concerning the TEST?

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die.

So yes, it was a direct attack on exactly the thing that God told them not to do.

The agents used to make the attack did not change the fact that it was a direct attack on what God had told them.





True, Satan will try to sneak in this assault and to do his best to make it seem like a "godly" move rather than a confrontation on God's law.
We see this happening in the way the Sunday movement is now being pushed -- as a great family day -- save the family thing.
Don't be such a fundamentalist (they say) to think God is so particular as to a day, we need the peace and family strengthening element of a common day that focuses on Christ's love -- God wants us to follow the pope who is working to bring peace to the world.
Those are the sentiments the cunning serpent is now using to break down the resistance.

Don't be deceived -- it is a direct confrontation on GOD'S LAW and what we have been warned WILL BE THE FINAL TEST when all the world worships the beast rather than following the ONE WHO MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH (Rev. 14:7) in six days and sanctified and blessed the seventh day (Gen. 2:2-3) and placed it in the center of His commandments (Ex. 20) asking us to remember it.

God's saints are the ones who follow the LAMB, not the pope, and are defined as by "the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (Rev. 14:4,12)







This will be the method to enforce obedience to the confrontation of God's law.

Now its quite true that things are being arranged right now that will make it extremely difficult for people when the test comes, and the more tangled up we get with government "tracking" things, the more difficult it will be then. But the SIGN of allegiance or "mark of the beast" or "the seal of God" will be manifest in whose laws we keep.

Romans 6:16 Don't you know, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


"An apostate church will unite with the powers of earth and hell to place upon the forehead or in the hand, the mark of the beast, and prevail upon the children of God to worship the beast and his image. They will seek to compel them to renounce their allegiance to God's law, and yield homage to the papacy."
{RH, November 8, 1892 par. 7}







Of course this is where we disagree. Having read your posts for a good 20 years now, it is interesting how your new definition of beasts has changed over the years with each new election.

Daniel's beast (chapter 7) rose from the sea. Just because the interpreting angel while explaining the symbols says those beasts represent kingdoms on earth does not give license to turn the explanation into new symbols.

The beast from the symbolic meaning of "earth" in Rev. 13 is the US, and we can trace the development of the attack on the constitution back further than Regan.
Even by the time of Clinton people were saying he was the last, and things were ripe for the end. Now of course it's even more "ripe"!

Is Obama the last? I don't know, he could be, but if he was to be say impeached (just goggle Obama and impeached and see how many are lobbying for that to happen) "to save America" things could go quite differently, and rapidly as well.



Very important quote !!!
I find there are a host of confusing RE-INTERPRETATIONS being presented, -- attempts to confuse the understanding of the real issues that will come, by presenting other issues.