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Re: Revelation 13 [Re: APL] #167121
07/28/14 08:37 AM
07/28/14 08:37 AM
His child  Offline
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Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Am I really confused? ...

Take the ten kings - you are claiming they are individuals. But they do not need to be individuals, they are kingdoms. ... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I have not seen the evidence.


The evidence has been presented. But since you missed it, I will give it again.

Revelation 17:
9 "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 "These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast."

The beast is the papal beast of Revelation 13 explained further

The heads of the beast represent popes. Of the beast in Rev 13 EGW stated of Pope Pius VI

Originally Posted By: EGW
Pius VI. "This is the pope specified in prophecy, which received the deadly wound." {5MR 318.1}


The wounded head was the pope specified in prophecy. the healed head had to be the pope specified in prophecy. The head is a pope.

Pope Pius VI lost the kingdom in 1798.

Pope Pius XI had the kingdom restored to him in 1929.

The 5 kings that ruled the solo papacy were:
Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, & John-Paul I

The ten horns are the 10 American Presidents that bonded with these popes. the Jesuits brag that they put Truman in office. He called fire down on Japan confirming the identity of the earth-beast in Rev 13. And he had a papal audience in 1950 after leaving office. The remaining 9 Eisenhower through Clinton all had papal audiences while in office. And Clinton is the 10th.

The one pope that is was John-Paul II
when the meaning of the prophecy was made known.

The one that was to rule for a SHORT SPACE was Benedict XVI

Originally Posted By: EGW
"The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time, while the symbols used reveal the condition of the church at different periods in the history of the world." {AA 585.3}


Benedict XVI became pope April 2005 (his ascension year) which finished John-Paul II's last year.

Benedict's first year began in March 2006 according to the Babylonian calendar and it had to end prior to March 2013 or it would exceed 7-years (be greater than the number of completeness), which could not be a SHORT SPACE. Thus he resigned in February 2013.

Benedict XVI is the final pope on the papal beast that yield's to the beast with the lamblike horns. Bush II is the President that was in office when the transitional pope was in office. Thus Bush II is the first horn of the earth-beast and Obama is the second.

The papal-beast was allowed ONE HOUR with the ten horns.

Jesus said there are 12 hours in a day

Peter and David say a day with God is 1000-years

1/12 of 1000-years is 83 years 4 months

The papacy was restored to the pope kings in 1929

From the Day of atonement 1929 (14 October 1929) the hour for solo popes goes through 14 February 2013.

When the hour ended February 2013, the solo pope papacy ended. There are now 2-popes Francis I and Benedict XVI the retired.

That may be too much for one sitting. But you can always read my book with all the particulars and Bible texts and Spirit of prophecy quotes, etc.

Originally Posted By: EGW
" In the Scriptures are presented truths that relate especially to our own time. To the period just prior to the appearing of the Son of man, the prophecies of Scripture point, and here their warnings and threatenings pre-eminently apply. The prophetic periods of Daniel, extending to the very eve of the great consummation, throw a flood of light upon events then to transpire. The book of Revelation is also replete with warning and instruction for the last generation. The beloved John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, portrays the fearful and thrilling scenes connected with the close of earth's history, and presents the duties and dangers of God's people. None need remain in ignorance, none need be unprepared for the coming of the day of God." {RH, September 25, 1883 par. 6}


But will extraordinary evidence be sufficient?

Originally Posted By: EGW
"The messengers God has seen fit to send have not been infallible. They have been weak, erring human beings; but the Lord wrought through them as they gave themselves up to his service. The word spoken was adapted to the necessities of God's people; the evidence of truth was clearly and distinctly presented. The reason the word did not have the desired effect on the hearers was not that there was a lack of evidence; for link after link was produced until the chain was complete; but the minds of the hearers were filled with prejudice. They were not willing to accept evidence, and tried to make the Bible sustain their ideas, instead of changing their ideas to meet the Bible." {RH, June 3, 1902 par. 12}


Is that the case with the ten horns? The Bible says they are kings, but some people are not willing to accept evidence, and tried to make the Bible sustain their ideas, instead of changing their ideas to meet the Bible?

Of that you will have to be the judge in your situation.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Revelation 13 [Re: James Peterson] #167128
07/28/14 03:23 PM
07/28/14 03:23 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: his child
The horns are symbolic of men: that is Scripture.
THAT is not a proven fact, and your interpretation rests on this being the truth. And the evidence does not support this. WE know what the little horn power is, but it is not a single man.

Characteristics: these are not what one claims to be, but what they are. The two-horned power, the US had the actual characteristics stated above, not claimed to have had. In your interpretation, the two horns do not rule at the same time, GWB then BHO. That is not how I read the prophesy.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Revelation 13 [Re: APL] #167134
07/28/14 06:08 PM
07/28/14 06:08 PM
His child  Offline
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TN, USA
APL,

I can only tell you how I read it. Every man has to work out his own salvation. When Jesus asks "How readest thou?" He will know if we are reading it by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit or contrary to the Holy Spirit's leading.

Originally Posted By: his child
The horns are symbolic of men: that is Scripture.


The statement was based on the evidence presented earlier:

Daniel 7:24 "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

Daniel 8:20-21 "The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king."

Revelation 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

Your conclusion does not see the evidence as I read it:

Originally Posted By: APL
THAT is not a proven fact, and your interpretation rests on this being the truth. And the evidence does not support this. WE know what the little horn power is, but it is not a single man.


Thus because you know the identity of the Little Horn Power, that knowledge sets aside a thus saith the Lord. And though you do not know that the Little Horn Power is prophetic history to explain a man that is to arise in the endtime that is wounded and survives. so that partial understanding that is incomplete is somehow more valid than all the other Scriptures combined.

Thus I am reminded of this important counsel:

Originally Posted By: EGW
"Truth will always bear away the victory. Go straight forward. Do not take up the unbelief of anyone in order to try to convince him. If the Holy Spirit is turned from, all your words will not help remove, for the time being, the false presentations. Satan stands ready to invent more. If the evidence that has been given is rejected and falsified, all other evidence will be useless until there is seen the converting power of God upon the minds of those in error. If the convincing representations and impressions of the Holy Spirit evidenced for the past half century will not be accepted as trustworthy evidence, nothing will hereafter bring them to their senses, because the bewitching guile of Satan has perverted their discernment. They have been convinced again and again as the Holy Spirit has borne witness, and all that words can say will not be as forcible as the impression made by the Holy Spirit of God." {2SAT 281.7}


You further assert:

Originally Posted By: APL
Characteristics: these are not what one claims to be, but what they are. The two-horned power, the US had the actual characteristics stated above, not claimed to have had. In your interpretation, the two horns do not rule at the same time, GWB then BHO. That is not how I read the prophesy.


Pagan Rome and papal Rome are viewed as though they were one even though they were two different powers. Likewise, I view Obama as an extension of GW. But my words are fallible human words to proclaim truth that is to much for me.

Originally Posted By: EGW
"Prophecy represents Protestantism as having lamblike horns, but speaking like a dragon. Already we are beginning to hear the voice of the dragon. There is a satanic force propelling the Sunday movement, but it is concealed. Even the men who are engaged in the work, are themselves blinded to the results which will follow their movement. {7BC 975.5}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"It is the beast with lamb-like horns—in profession pure, gentle, and harmless— that speaks as a dragon. {GC88 442.2}


Originally Posted By: EGW
" "He had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." Though professing to be followers of the Lamb of God, men become imbued with the spirit of the dragon. They profess to be meek and humble but they speak and legislate with the spirit of Satan, showing by their actions that they are the opposite of what they profess to be. This lamb-like power unites with the dragon in making war upon those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. And Satan unites with Protestants and papists, acting in consort with them as the god of this world, dictating to men as if they were the subjects of his kingdom, to be handled and governed and controlled as he pleases." {14MR 162.1}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"...those who believe that God has communicated light and comfort to them through the Testimonies, it is time for the brethren and sisters to assert their liberty and perfect freedom of conscience. God has given them light, and it is their privilege to cherish the light and to speak of it to strengthen and encourage one another. Brother J would confuse the mind by seeking to make it appear that the light God has given through the Testimonies is an addition to the word of God, but in this he presents the matter in a false light. God has seen fit in this manner to bring the minds of His people to His word, to give them a clearer understanding of it. {4T 245.3}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"It is a dangerous thing for men to resist the Spirit of truth and grace and righteousness, because its manifestations are not according to their ideas, and have not come in the line of their methodical plans. The Lord works in his own way, and according to his own devising. Let men pray that they may be divested of self, and may be in harmony with heaven." {RH, May 5, 1896 par. 7}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"While God has given ample evidence for faith, he will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon, will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's Word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light." {GC88 527.2}


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Revelation 13 [Re: James Peterson] #167135
07/28/14 06:37 PM
07/28/14 06:37 PM
APL  Offline
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Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: his child
I can only tell you how I read it.
AH - BUT - you say it is the BIBLE that I reject when I reject YOUR reading. Which is it?

Quote:
"Prophecy represents Protestantism as having lamblike horns, but speaking like a dragon. Already we are beginning to hear the voice of the dragon. There is a satanic force propelling the Sunday movement, but it is concealed. Even the men who are engaged in the work, are themselves blinded to the results which will follow their movement. {7BC 975.5}
Do you equate "men" with specific men? The voice had began to speak when she wrote this. Were GWB and BHO speaking back then? I don't think so.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Revelation 13 [Re: His child] #167136
07/28/14 08:52 PM
07/28/14 08:52 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: His child
APL, I can only tell you how I read it. Every man has to work out his own salvation. When Jesus asks "How readest thou?" He will know if we are reading it by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit or contrary to the Holy Spirit's leading. "The horns are symbolic of men: that is Scripture." The statement was based on the evidence presented earlier: Daniel 7:24 "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

Daniel 8:20-21 "The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king." Revelation 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

Your conclusion does not see the evidence as I read it: "THAT is not a proven fact, and your interpretation rests on this being the truth. And the evidence does not support this. WE know what the little horn power is, but it is not a single man."

Thus because you know the identity of the Little Horn Power, that knowledge sets aside a thus saith the Lord. And though you do not know that the Little Horn Power is prophetic history to explain a man that is to arise in the endtime that is wounded and survives. so that partial understanding that is incomplete is somehow more valid than all the other Scriptures combined.

Thus I am reminded of this important counsel:

Originally Posted By: EGW
"Truth will always bear away the victory. Go straight forward. Do not take up the unbelief of anyone in order to try to convince him. If the Holy Spirit is turned from, all your words will not help remove, for the time being, the false presentations. Satan stands ready to invent more. If the evidence that has been given is rejected and falsified, all other evidence will be useless until there is seen the converting power of God upon the minds of those in error. If the convincing representations and impressions of the Holy Spirit evidenced for the past half century will not be accepted as trustworthy evidence, nothing will hereafter bring them to their senses, because the bewitching guile of Satan has perverted their discernment. They have been convinced again and again as the Holy Spirit has borne witness, and all that words can say will not be as forcible as the impression made by the Holy Spirit of God." {2SAT 281.7}


You further assert:

Originally Posted By: APL
Characteristics: these are not what one claims to be, but what they are. The two-horned power, the US had the actual characteristics stated above, not claimed to have had. In your interpretation, the two horns do not rule at the same time, GWB then BHO. That is not how I read the prophesy.


Pagan Rome and papal Rome are viewed as though they were one even though they were two different powers. Likewise, I view Obama as an extension of GW. But my words are fallible human words to proclaim truth that is to much for me.

Originally Posted By: EGW
"Prophecy represents Protestantism as having lamblike horns, but speaking like a dragon. Already we are beginning to hear the voice of the dragon. There is a satanic force propelling the Sunday movement, but it is concealed. Even the men who are engaged in the work, are themselves blinded to the results which will follow their movement. {7BC 975.5}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"It is the beast with lamb-like horns—in profession pure, gentle, and harmless— that speaks as a dragon. {GC88 442.2}


Originally Posted By: EGW
" "He had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." Though professing to be followers of the Lamb of God, men become imbued with the spirit of the dragon. They profess to be meek and humble but they speak and legislate with the spirit of Satan, showing by their actions that they are the opposite of what they profess to be. This lamb-like power unites with the dragon in making war upon those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. And Satan unites with Protestants and papists, acting in consort with them as the god of this world, dictating to men as if they were the subjects of his kingdom, to be handled and governed and controlled as he pleases." {14MR 162.1}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"...those who believe that God has communicated light and comfort to them through the Testimonies, it is time for the brethren and sisters to assert their liberty and perfect freedom of conscience. God has given them light, and it is their privilege to cherish the light and to speak of it to strengthen and encourage one another. Brother J would confuse the mind by seeking to make it appear that the light God has given through the Testimonies is an addition to the word of God, but in this he presents the matter in a false light. God has seen fit in this manner to bring the minds of His people to His word, to give them a clearer understanding of it. {4T 245.3}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"It is a dangerous thing for men to resist the Spirit of truth and grace and righteousness, because its manifestations are not according to their ideas, and have not come in the line of their methodical plans. The Lord works in his own way, and according to his own devising. Let men pray that they may be divested of self, and may be in harmony with heaven." {RH, May 5, 1896 par. 7}


Originally Posted By: EGW
"While God has given ample evidence for faith, he will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon, will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's Word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light." {GC88 527.2}



Reading this reminded me of The Esoteric Tale of Humpty Dumpty.

Here's the testimony of one viewer of the video (there are many more like it on the site): "@DennisFetcho Greetings & I am honored, Sir. That was just something I noticed while here. Im not dunky however. If the msg is meant for both of us, cool. I come here on a regular basis to thumb up & share the videos. I cannot grasp how fundamentally profound your work is & yet it boggles the mind of the masses. I still try to do my best to educate & learn myself. I believe your work & the work of someone named Truthiracy3 should be used to re-educate humanity. Great to hear more vids planned!"

The people of the earth are blind and walk around in a drunken stupor, uttering words like little children who know not what they say.

///

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: James Peterson] #167138
07/29/14 05:13 AM
07/29/14 05:13 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,430
Canada
Daniel 7:24 "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

Daniel 8:20-21 "The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king."

Revelation 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

Kings here mean KINGDOMS, all kingdoms have a succession of kings.
The ten horns of Daniel 7, were there till three were uprooted, yet from the fall of western Rome till the last of the three horns was "uprooted", each "horn" or kingdom had succession of kings.

Your reading is literal where "literal" doesn't make any sense, and the obvious understanding is "kingdom", whether it had one or thirty successive kings.

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: APL] #167143
07/29/14 09:30 AM
07/29/14 09:30 AM
His child  Offline
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Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Thank you for your feedback;

Originally Posted By: his child
I can only tell you how I read it.


Originally Posted By: APL
AH - BUT - you say it is the BIBLE that I reject when I reject YOUR reading. Which is it?


How was it possible for me to accurately tweet (check out my tweets in the Twitter archives) for and during the year and four months before Pope Benedict XVI resigned that he has a very short time left (September 2011); he is a short timer (May 2012); that 2012 is his last year (March & April 2012); that his time ends before May 2013 (July 2012); and that he might last till spring 2013? (30 September 2012) Those eight (before the fact) Pope Benedict XVI tweets have been proven to be true.

That is how I read the Bible, that is what happened, and you reject my reading of the Bible in spite of the evidence that my reading was correct. From your reading, you did not know that Benedict would not be pope in 2013 and you do not have a clue that his resignation is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy.

As I tweeted, Benedict XVI was a short timer. His last year to head the papacy was 2012. He resigned before May 2013, and he did not last in office until the spring 2013. Prophetic insight was accurately tweeted because I understood from the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation that a horn is a man and the heads on the beast are specific popes like it says in the Spirit of Prophecy.

Quote:
"Prophecy represents Protestantism as having lamblike horns, but speaking like a dragon. Already we are beginning to hear the voice of the dragon. There is a satanic force propelling the Sunday movement, but it is concealed. Even the men who are engaged in the work, are themselves blinded to the results which will follow their movement. {7BC 975.5}


Originally Posted By: APL
Do you equate "men" with specific men? The voice had began to speak when she wrote this. Were GWB and BHO speaking back then? I don't think so.


You are misreading what EGW wrote: "hear the voice of the dragon."

The opinion you hold as truth, when compared to the evidence, has not been very accurate.

Daniel 7:24 "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

Daniel 8:20-21 "The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king."

Revelation 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

Originally Posted By: dedication
Kings here mean KINGDOMS, all kingdoms have a succession of kings.


In the historical fulfillment of the sea-kingdoms in Daniel that is true.
Those sea-kingdoms sealed the authenticity of Daniel's prophecy.
But when the prophecy is opened and unsealed in the endtime,
they are kings as Heaven's interpretation declares them to be.

Originally Posted By: dedication
The ten horns of Daniel 7, were there till three were uprooted, yet from the fall of western Rome till the last of the three horns was "uprooted", each "horn" or kingdom had succession of kings.


Some think that the Heruli were the first kingdom uprooted. It was taken out by an Arian tribe and does not fit the prophecy.

The three horns that were uprooted were: Kings Arlic I, Gelimer and Witigis.

Clovis the Frank became Catholic in 506 and took out King Arlic I, the Visogoth, in 507 and finally subdued his kingdom (the Visogoths) in 508.

King Gelimer of the Vandals was the horn plucked up by the Catholic Emperor Justinian in 533.

And King Witigis, the Ostrogoth, was the one who besieged Rome when Justinian appointed Vigilius. Soon after Pope Vigilius was established on his throne King Witigis was captured in 538 and taken to Constantinople.

Originally Posted By: dedication
Your reading is literal where "literal" doesn't make any sense, and the obvious understanding is "kingdom", whether it had one or thirty successive kings.


When put in focus, my reading not only makes sense, but it allowed me to understand that Pope Benedict XVI would not be pope in 2013. OTOH, the kingdom scenario that you prefer, did not give you a clue that Benedict was identified in prophecy as sure as King Cyrus in Isaiah.

It is time to look at prophecy from a more literal perspective.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Revelation 13 [Re: His child] #167148
07/29/14 05:02 PM
07/29/14 05:02 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Posts: 6,425
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Originally Posted By: EGW
The "two horns like a lamb" well represent the character of our own Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles,--Republicanism and Protestantism. These principles are the secret of our power and prosperity as a nation. Those who first found an asylum on the shores of America, rejoiced that they had reached a country free from the arrogant claims of popery and the tyranny of kingly rule. They determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. {ST, February 8, 1910 par. 6}
Originally Posted By: His child

You are not the first to be confused. Lots of people mix up the LAMBLIKE characteristics of the horns described by EGW with the prophetic symbolism OF THE HORNS and forget that she supplements the Bible, but does not contradict it. Pray that the Holy Spirit will give you discernment.
Originally Posted By: His child

Thus Bush II is the first horn of the earth-beast and Obama is the second.
In what way does Bush II and Obama well represent the character of our own Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles?

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: kland] #167150
07/29/14 11:38 PM
07/29/14 11:38 PM
His child  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: EGW
The "two horns like a lamb" well represent the character of our own Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles,--Republicanism and Protestantism. These principles are the secret of our power and prosperity as a nation. Those who first found an asylum on the shores of America, rejoiced that they had reached a country free from the arrogant claims of popery and the tyranny of kingly rule. They determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. {ST, February 8, 1910 par. 6}

Originally Posted By: His child

You are not the first to be confused. Lots of people mix up the LAMBLIKE characteristics of the horns described by EGW with the prophetic symbolism OF THE HORNS and forget that she supplements the Bible, but does not contradict it. Pray that the Holy Spirit will give you discernment.

Originally Posted By: His child

Thus Bush II is the first horn of the earth-beast and Obama is the second.

Originally Posted By: kland
In what way does Bush II and Obama well represent the character of our own Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles?


EGW defined Republicanism and Protestantism.

Originally Posted By: EGW
"Republicanism and Protestantism. The Christian exiles who first fled to America, sought an asylum from royal oppression and priestly intolerance, and they determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. These principles are the secret of our power and prosperity as a nation. Millions from other lands have sought our shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. {4SP 277.1}


kland,
Are you suggesting that GW and BO do not at least give lip service to civil liberty and religious liberty?

Originally Posted By: GW
"In fact, the prosperity, and social vitality and technological progress of a people are directly determined by extent of their liberty. Freedom honors and unleashes human creativity -- and creativity determines the strength and wealth of nations. Liberty is both the plan of Heaven for humanity, and the best hope for progress here on Earth." http://www.ned.org/george-w-bush/remarks-by-president-george-w-bush-at-the-20th-anniversary

“Americans practice different faiths in churches, synagogues, mosques and temples. And many good people practice no faith at all." http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/ 2002/03/20020330.html


Originally Posted By: BO
"I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies the tools they need to take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedoms. That means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. That means no more national security letters to spy on Americans who are not suspected of committing a crime. No more tracking citizens who do no more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient." https://www.techdirt.com/articles/201306...veillance.shtml

“Whatever we once were, we’re no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers…” http://www.wnd.com/2008/06/67735/


They both displayed the lamblike profession that claims to believe in civil and religious liberties. And they both spoke as a dragon and acted contrary to what they claimed that they believed.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Revelation 13 [Re: James Peterson] #167154
07/30/14 02:10 AM
07/30/14 02:10 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Claims are NOT characteristics. Characteristics are determined by what something is/does, not claim. The secret to the success of the U.S.'s power and prosperity is not GWB or BHO.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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