What are internal foes, the promptings of sin? Where do internal foes reside? Where do the promptings of sin originate? Can we eliminate them now? Or, must we resist them until Jesus returns and eliminates them?

2T 74, 75
Jesus, our Advocate, is acquainted with all the circumstances with which we are surrounded and deals with us according to the light we have had and the circumstances in which we are placed. Some have a much better organization than others. While some are continually harassed, afflicted, and in trouble because of their unhappy traits of character, having to war with internal foes and the corruption of their nature, others have not half so much to battle against. They pass along almost free from the difficulties which their brethren and sisters who are not so favorably organized are laboring under. In very many cases they do not labor half so hard to overcome and live the life of a Christian as do some of those unfortunate ones I have mentioned. The latter appear to disadvantage almost every time, while the former appear much better because it is natural for them so to do. They may not labor half as hard to watch and keep the body under, yet at the same time they compare their lives with the lives of others who are unfortunately organized and badly educated, and flatter themselves with the contrast. They talk of the failings, errors, and wrongs of the unfortunate, but do not feel that they have any burden in the matter, farther than to dwell upon those wrongs and shun those who are guilty of them. {2T 74.1}

2T 87
Be circumspect in your family. You are watching to see others' wrongs, but do this no more. The work you have now to do is to overcome your own wrongs, to battle with your strong internal foes. Deal justly with the widow and the fatherless. Do not throw over your acts the flimsy covering of deception, to influence those whom you greatly wish would think you right, while your motives and acts will not bear the construction you would have put upon them. {2T 87.2}

2T 162
I recollected your countenance as that of one whom the Lord had shown me had been struggling for the mastery over powerful evil habits, which were leading not only to the destruction of your body but to your eternal destruction hereafter. You have gained victories, but you have still great victories to gain; you have battles to fight with internal foes which, unless overcome, will greatly mar your own happiness and that of all who associate with you… The evil traits in your character must be overcome. {2T 162.1}

2T 507
If we make God our trust, we have it in our power to control the mind in these things. Through continued exercise it will become strong to battle with internal foes and to subdue self, until there is a complete transformation, and the passions, appetites, and will are brought into perfect subjection. Then there will be daily piety at home and abroad, and when we engage in labor for souls, a power will attend our efforts. The humble Christian will have seasons of devotion which are not spasmodic, fitful, or superstitious, but calm and tranquil, deep, constant, and earnest. The love of God, the practice of holiness, will be pleasant when there is a perfect surrender to God. {2T 507.1}

SL 92, 93
"His servants ye are to whom ye obey" (Rom. 6:16). If we indulge anger, lust, covetousness, hatred, selfishness, or any other sin, we become servants of sin. "No man can serve two masters" (Matt. 6:24). If we serve sin, we cannot serve Christ. The Christian will feel the promptings of sin, for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit; but the Spirit striveth against the flesh, keeping up a constant warfare. Here is where Christ's help is needed. Human weakness becomes united to divine strength, and faith exclaims, "Thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 15:57)! {SL 92.2}

GC 469, 470
The Christian will feel the promptings of sin, but he will maintain a constant warfare against it. Here is where Christ's help is needed. Human weakness becomes united to divine strength, and faith exclaims: "Thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57. {GC 469.3}

It looks from the quotes like she equates "internal foes" with "evil traits of character." I would characterize it as the combination of cultivated and inherited tendencies to evil. We will have internal foes to deal with until Christ returns because we have sinful nature and have committed sin.

Christ had to deal with the same temptations we do, having taking our sinful nature and having taken our sin upon Him.

Tom,

This is equivalent to saying that we will have evil traits of character until Christ returns.

I would like to put emphasis on some words in these quotes:

2T 162
I recollected your countenance as that of one whom the Lord had shown me had been struggling for the mastery over powerful evil habits, which were leading not only to the destruction of your body but to your eternal destruction hereafter. You have gained victories, but you have still great victories to gain; you have battles to fight with internal foes which, unless overcome, will greatly mar your own happiness and that of all who associate with you… The evil traits in your character must be overcome. {2T 162.1}

2T 507
If we make God our trust, we have it in our power to control the mind in these things. Through continued exercise it will become strong to battle with internal foes and to subdue self, until there is a complete transformation, and the passions, appetites, and will are brought into perfect subjection. Then there will be daily piety at home and abroad, and when we engage in labor for souls, a power will attend our efforts. The humble Christian will have seasons of devotion which are not spasmodic, fitful, or superstitious, but calm and tranquil, deep, constant, and earnest. The love of God, the practice of holiness, will be pleasant when there is a perfect surrender to God. {2T 507.1}

Is there a point, this side of the second advent, when we can expect our internal foes to die, to cease tempting us to sin? Or, are we destined to resist them until the day Jesus returns and eliminates them?

Does "overcome" imply eliminate, or resist and keep under control and subjection?

Is the presence and existence of internal foes something that Jesus holds us guilty and accountable for? something that He commands us to eliminate, expunge? something that will bar against us the gates of heaven if we do not eventually silence and bury before He returns?

Rosangela, it depends on what one is talking about when one says "evil traits of character." The way I would use the term, I would say do not need to keep our evil traits, as I see this implying a combination of both participation in sin as well as a history of committing sin and having a sinful nature. Some have used "traits" as having to do with that which is passed genetically. This use of the term seems a bit misleading to me, and I have not used it that way. It's misleading, to me, because it can give the impression of actual participation in sin.

Anyway, to simplify things, Christ took our nature, as well as our sin, and so was tempted as we are tempted. Yet He never sinned. He overcame by faith. As Christ overcame by faith, so may we, in spite of our nature or past experiences.

If one looks at the context of Romans 12:21, one will see that it is speaking of justice. It is contrasting human justice with God's justice. Human justice is based on the principle of "eye for eye" and "tooth for tooth." God's justice, on the other hand, is based on "turn the other cheek" and "walk the second mile."

Paul in Romans 12 is simply enunciating the same principles that Christ spoke at the Sermon of the Mount. Another way of saying "turn the other cheek" and "walk the second mile" is "overcome evil with good." This is just how Jesus lived, and is a perfect expression of God's character and the prinicples of His government.

A couple of OT texts which bring out these principles are (Zech 7:9; Isa. 30:18):

Execute true justice,
Show mercy and compassion
Everyone to his brother.

The LORD longs to be gracious to you;
He rises to show you compassion.
For the LORD is a God of justice.
Blessed are all who wait for Him!

God's justice is manifest in mercy and compassion. He longs to be gracious to us, because He is a God of justice. He overcomes evil with God by revealing His character; generous, kind, compassionate, gracious, agape. He overcome evil with good by walking as Christ walked. We walk like Christ walked by being like He was, because as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. We become like Christ by beholding Him, because by beholding we become transformed.

Yes Tom, that is very true.

quote:

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We walk like Christ walked by being like He was, because as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. We become like Christ by beholding Him, because by beholding we become transformed.

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To do that, does indeed overcome all internal foes with “good”.

Yes, John, we overcome our internal foes with good by beholding Christ. Amen, indeed. However, does overcome imply eliminate? I'm still not sure what you believe about the post-conversion role and existence of our internal foes. Are they eliminated when we are born again? Do they cease to tempt us?

John, according to this quote, our flesh will continue to tempt us after we are born again.

2SM 32, 33
The teaching given in regard to what is termed "holy flesh" is an error. All may now obtain holy hearts, but it is not correct to claim in this life to have holy flesh. The apostle Paul declares, "I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing" (Rom. 7:18). To those who have tried so hard to obtain by faith so-called holy flesh, I would say, You cannot obtain it. Not a soul of you has holy flesh now. No human being on the earth has holy flesh. It is an impossibility. . . . {2SM 32.1}

When human beings receive holy flesh, they will not remain on the earth, but will be taken to heaven. While sin is forgiven in this life, its results are not now wholly removed. It is at His coming that Christ is to "change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body" (Phil. 3:21). . . . {2SM 33.3}

Paul's references to the flesh, our vile body, is talking about more than our grave bound body tissue, the "flesh and blood that cannot inherit the kingdom of God." I believe it is clear he is talking that part of our flesh that produces sinful lusts and affections in the form of conscious unholy thoughts and feelings.

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." The lusts and affections affiliated with our flesh will continue to harass us until the day Jesus reurns and replaces it with a body like unto His glorious body, namely, holy flesh.

Holy flesh, as opposed to sinful flesh, will not generate ungodly lusts and affections that must be resisted. But, according to Paul and Sister White, it is false doctrine to say that we can, before Jesus returns, rid ourselves of the evil promptings that originate with our sinful flesh, that we can have holy flesh now, a flesh that does not produce sinful lusts and affections.

John, how does your view of sinful flesh agree or disagree with these observations?

Thank you, John. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on internal foes. I am convinced, though, that our internal foes will continue to tempt us until Jesus returns. Consequently, we must continue to abide in Jesus, continue to partake of the divine nature, so that Jesus can empower us to resist our internal foes unto the honor and glory of God our Father.

Consequently, we must continue to abide in Jesus, continue to partake of the divine nature because that is the Law of the spirit of life in Christ that sets us free from the law of sin and death.

Indeed it is so. It is the Law of the spirit of life in Christ …

It would appear, John, that our basic differences have to do with whether or not our internal foes, the promptings of sin, our sinful flesh nature, remain to tempt us after we are born again.