And I was referring to the church saying it's ok to inject poison into our bodies. This action effectively declared independence from God's divine plan.

Who is right? How does one determine what is "prophecy" or just someone's opinion of what an "abomination" is?

I would agree. Rome, papacy, Babylon, to me they are one and the same. But I do believe it is apostate Protestantism that will be a main player in the last days. Babylon as the papacy will play a background role, but still a driving and threatening force.

Would it be safe to say, that the last power of prophecy is the three-fold union of the papacy, apostate protestantism, and spiritualism?

I do not think there is a dispute with Daniel 2, 7 and 8. But even James White said that the King of the North was Turkey while Turkey occupied that territory. Ellen openly reputed James for disagreeing with Smith on the subject of Daniel 11:40-45. Many discussion about the "Eastern Question" occurred. Not once did Ellen disagree with Smith and others on this topic, only James. WHY? Because James was right? I don't think so.

Calling the KOTN something other than the Papacy does NOT change the end time events where the Papacy will be part of the three-fold union. The KOTN comes to its end, THEN Daniel 12 happens.

Some have argued that Islam is a tool of the Papacy, Veith for example. That could be a unifying scenario.

What does scripture say "the abomination" spoken of in Daniel is ?

The original word used in Daniel for
Abomination is #8251 (shiqquwts)

1 Kings 11.5
For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
11.7
Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.



Matt.24.15-16
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place


Luke 13.14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not,

The abomination IS FALSE/PAGAN WORSHIP.
It is better translated as the "desolating sacrilege".

What brings it to special mention in Daniel is the alarming fact that it incorporates itself under the banner of Christianity! The abomination is set up IN THE CHURCH!


The abomination that causes desolation is FALSE RELIGION standing in the holy place, pretending to be true religion! It is desolating because it obscures the TRUE.

The "abomination" was legally set up in the Christian church, in 538 A.D. when the Papacy was given the legal right to enforce his brand of religion and punish all so called heretics-- and lasted till 1798 A.D. when Napoleon legally removed their power.

When we see this "abomination" standing again at the head of Christendom, holding a sword over the religious practices of the population, (specifically commanding Sunday worship) it signals the final fall of Babylon.

Thanks for sharing that thought dedication,

Oh that God's people will be on the right side of that issue!

Christian regards,

William Miller followed the KOTN to Great Britain and the KOTS to France.

Now we know that GB propped up the Ottoman Empire in 1840 and France toppled Egypt in 1798 and that they KOTN and KOTS joined forces in the 1860's Crimean War.

And we know that a woman in the Bible is a church. thus the papacy became the daughter of the KOTS in 1798 when France took the pope captive.

We also know that the papacy had an hour allotted to it (1929 to 2013) for the restored popes to rule their kingdom. Now there are two popes. 1)beast 2)false prophet. With a third to come 3)Satan - the dragon - impersonating a human being.

And we know that ISIS (ISIL) is drying up the Euphrates River to make way for the Kings of the East.

But do we correctly apply what we know?

I believe Ellen White didn't say James was right or wrong but to tell him to stop arguing. She didn't tell Smith and the others anything, because she wanted the discussion to stop.

Islam is not Turkey, but is spreading over many countries. It is not tied to any country.

If Islam is a tool, or was actually created by the papacy, then wouldn't it follow it is the king of the north? That it is none other but the same thing? I don't know about Veith, but has it not been suggested the papacy will put an end to Islam, and/or convert them to "christianity"?

Daniel 11:45 says the KOTN comes to his end, THEN, Michael stands up and the time of trouble comes, Daniel 12:1. Some interpret this as saying the KOTN comes to his end after the time of trouble starts with the second coming. But that is not how I read Daniel 11:45. Who ever the KOTN is, he does not go to the end. The Papacy does.

Then can Islam be considered a tool of the papacy? Because tool, part, etc., would not be considered as a king coming to his end.


I still think you need to justify the conjunctions.

And he shall plant
Yet he shall come,
At that time

In the past the pope regarded Islam as an ally that he would have les probblems with than with sects who believed that a person could decide him/her-self if s/he wanted to be saved. That decicion, as far as I understood it, should be at the discretion of the church at Rome.

I have that book in a box in storage.