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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: dedication]
#171587
01/30/15 04:12 AM
01/30/15 04:12 AM
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Ded- When the sealing is complete probation closes.
When is the solemn declaration "It is Done" made?That actually is a appropriate question . Here is the full report-- Two Sealing Reports
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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: dedication]
#171610
01/31/15 03:05 AM
01/31/15 03:05 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,431
Canada
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The way to find truth is to read the statements of EGW in their original context. Cut and paste methods always carry the danger of taking a lot of statements that are true in themselves, but then weaving them together to come up with something very different from that which is recorded in her writings. This sort of thing was already happening in EGW's day: Without my consent, they have made selections from the Testimonies, and have inserted them in the pamphlet they have published, to make it appear that my writings sustain and approve the position they advocate. In doing this they have done that which is not justice or righteousness.
Through taking unwarrantable liberties they have presented to the people a theory that is of character to deceive and destroy. In times past many others have done this same thing, and have made it appear that the Testimonies sustained positions that were untenable and false. {TM 32.3} I have had light to the effect that the position taken by Brother S. and his sympathizers is not true, but one of the "lo, heres," and "lo, theres" that will characterize the days in which we are living....
Those who receive the pamphlets advocating these false positions, will receive the impression that I sustain these positions, and am united with these workers in proclaiming what they term the "new light." I know that their message is mingled with truth, but the truth is misapplied and wrested by its connection with error. TM 33
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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: dedication]
#171631
02/02/15 01:18 AM
02/02/15 01:18 AM
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FORMER-SDA Active Member 2018 Banned
Senior Member
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
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The way to find truth is to read the statements of EGW in their original context. Seriously?? The way to find truth is to read Scripture and ask God to guide you.
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: dedication]
#171633
02/02/15 02:59 AM
02/02/15 02:59 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Posts: 6,431
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True -- do a Bible study on the sealing and when God declares "It is done".
However, the study I was addressing had a host of EGW short quotes pasted together -- If you want to find out what EGW meant in those short quotes -- a person needs to read the context -- not just lift sentences from here and there and paste them together to make it seem like she supports a conclusion that she never taught.
Houteff tries to gain the distinction of a prophet in the Adventist world by quoting a lot of EGW, making it seem like she supports his conclusions which are very different from hers.
But a proof text out of context is a pretext.
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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: dedication]
#171635
02/02/15 03:37 AM
02/02/15 03:37 AM
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FORMER-SDA Active Member 2018 Banned
Senior Member
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
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Houteff is not a prophet. This is not up for discussion.
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: dedication]
#171636
02/02/15 05:25 AM
02/02/15 05:25 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Posts: 6,431
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I agree that Houteff is not a prophet, but a rather prolific poster on this forum and on this thread, believes Houteff is a great prophet with the final "Elijah" message, and has been quite forceful in demanding we accept this as truth. (The two sealing report, link at the top of this page is largely a Houteff presentation)
This thread was to counter the study which he presented earlier, in which he claimed Zechaiah 4 predicts Houteff as the grand "pipe" in these last days, bringing oil from the olive trees (scripture) into the bowl of "oil", and he alone was the authorized interpreter of scripture and the interpreter of EGW (who he says is the second pipe) as long as she agrees with Houteff. Thus the "oil" according to this SRod teaching is the writings of Houteff first, and secondarily the writings of EGW.
My study was to show that Zechariah 4 shows the HOLY SPIRIT is the one who turns scripture into the precious oil in the bowl that brings light, and it is only as a person draws from this oil (scripture brought to life giving power by the Holy Spirit) that truth will be found.
Even EGW drew from that "bowl" to share light, she would never agree to the depiction that she filled the bowl of oil, but always as one drawing from the bowl and sharing it's message.
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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: dedication]
#172987
05/03/15 11:25 AM
05/03/15 11:25 AM
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SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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I don't mean to be exacting, but just for clarity. I believe the two trees represent the Law and the Prophets. I believe these two witnesses from Revelation existed from Abraham and Moses and David, etc.
Alchemy
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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: Alchemy]
#173014
05/04/15 02:41 PM
05/04/15 02:41 PM
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Alchemy- I don't mean to be exacting, but just for clarity. I believe the two trees represent the Law and the Prophets. I believe these two witnesses from Revelation existed from Abraham and Moses and David, etc.We see from Inspiration what they represent. Concerning the two witnesses the prophet declares further: "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." "Thy word," said the psalmist, "is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Revelation 11:4; Psalm 119:105. The two witnesses represent the Scriptures of the Old and the New Testament. Both are important testimonies to the origin and perpetuity of the law of God. Both are witnesses also to the plan of salvation. The types, sacrifices, and prophecies of the Old Testament point forward to a Saviour to come. The Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament tell of a Saviour who has come in the exact manner foretold by type and prophecy. {GC 267.1} "From the two olive trees, the golden oil was emptied through golden pipes into the bowl of the candlestick and thence into the golden lamps that gave light to the sanctuary. So from the holy ones that stand in God's presence, His Spirit is imparted to human instrumentalities that are consecrated to His service. The mission of the two anointed ones is to communicate light and power to God's people.
It is to receive blessing for us that they stand in God's presence. As the olive trees empty themselves into the golden pipes, so the heavenly messengers seek to communicate all that they receive from God. The whole heavenly treasure awaits our demand and reception; and as we receive the blessing, we in our turn are to impart it. Thus it is that the holy lamps are fed, and the church becomes a light bearer in the world." (Testimonies to Ministers, p.510)Ah, what beauty and clear explanations of the symbolic prophesy(Zech. 4) Zech. 4 picture The "two pipes" represent Inspired messengers (prophets in the form of human instrumentalities) that "communicate all that they receive from God." In other words, they are the ones who are allowed to rightly and divinely go into the "trees" (The OT and NT) to extract the oil to place it in the Golden Bowl, for our blessings! Imagine this for a moment, there are millions of pipes going into the trees and extracting oil into the bowl for the candlesticks (churches)! This is exactly what mankind is trying to do today. Thousands upon thousands of "private interpretations" grabbing what they want from OT and NT (trees) and tossing it into the bowl (Spirit of Prophecy-Revelations). God foresaw this and made this prophesy to warn us against this practice. All humans cannot go directly to the trees and properly understand the prophecies UNLESS they go through the "pipes" which only God directs. The prophets can only be these "heavenly messengers" that can do the authorized extraction, not "all humans". Yes, Inspiration tells us we will gleam "new light" from Scripture, but that light will not be "prophetic" light (ie. what shall come) unless one of God's Inspired messengers has declared it through Inspired writings (Bible, SOP, Elijah message). Further evidence that unauthorized humans not allowed by God cannot know God's future plans we read-- Amos 3:7-- Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.1 Peter 1:20-21--Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.Some perfect examples of the unauthorized interpretations is the Sunday keeper doctrines-- State of the dead, Sunday observance, Commandments no longer in force, etc. Now, do we think Satan stops there?? Now way! His real fun is when he gets SDA people to engage in their own private interpretations! This is a whole lot more fun for him because the great light imparted to His remnant church is twisted and made to look --almost true!! ONLY those who stick with His plan as outlined in Zech. 4 will be safe from false interpretations--let us be careful! "He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them (2 Thes. 2:10)
Last edited by Godsloveandlaw; 05/04/15 02:48 PM.
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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: Godsloveandlaw]
#173039
05/05/15 03:31 AM
05/05/15 03:31 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,431
Canada
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All humans cannot go directly to the trees (OT & NT) and properly understand the prophecies UNLESS they go through the "pipes" which only God directs...The "two pipes" represent Inspired messengers (prophets in the form of human instrumentalities) In other words -- the interpretation given above tells us we must trust in the arms of flesh; in the explanations of men -- we must not seek God's Word on our own. It implies that people cannot go to scripture on our own, they must filter it through a human being. There is something seriously wrong with that interpretation. GLL wrote: Satan...his real fun is when he gets SDA people to engage in their own private interpretations! This is a whole lot more fun for him because the great light imparted to His remnant church is twisted and made to look --almost true!!But if we don't go to scripture ourselves then the real "fun of Satan" is to get people to look to a false prophet who will use Bible passages to tell people he alone has the authority to interpret scripture, and that any other reading is "private interpretation". You see -- Sunday, state of the dead, and other "wine of false doctrine" became firmly established in Christianity because a "pontifex maximus" was believed to be divinely ordained by God to be the ultimate interpreter of scripture with the right to "deal with heretics" (those who understood the Bible differently). For 1260 years this "wine" was spoon fed the Christian world, with the military sword ready to make sure they drank it, while scripture was with held from the people. It was only when men boldly started reading scripture on their own that the reformation broke the iron control and brought a flood of gospel truth to the world. But most protestants are returning to their old master. There are many so called "prophets" in the world, leading honest people into all manner of falsehoods and hopes for glory in this world, if they only follow them. The end result is destruction. Indeed - Satan will use every kind of deception to mislead those who don't search the scripture for themselves. Prophets MUST be tested by scripture, not scripture by the prophet. This makes it absolutely essential that every person, with earnest prayer for the guidance of God's Holy spirit, go the Bible for themselves to see if "these things be so," Not by might, nor by Power, but by my Spirit, says the Lord of hosts." Zech. 4:6
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Re: Zehariah chapter four
[Re: dedication]
#173040
05/05/15 04:21 AM
05/05/15 04:21 AM
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Ded- In other words -- the interpretation given above tells us we must trust in the arms of flesh
As usual you don't disappoint. Are "prophets" the arm of flesh? You certainly are (arm of flesh) I can tell you that.
Ded- There is something seriously wrong with that interpretation.
The only thing I find "wrong" with your interpretation is what I said. You are good at mis-interpreting.
Ded-The real "fun of Satan" is to get people to look to a false prophet who will use Bible passages to tell people he alone has the authority to interpret scripture, and that any other reading is "private interpretation".
First of all , no one human has been given authority to interpret Scripture exclusively by themselves. This alone shows you are desperate to put down someone.This is really your continual stretch of what the truth is.
Ded-It was only when men boldly started reading scripture on their own that the reformation broke the iron control and brought a flood of gospel truth to the world. But most protestants are returning to their old master.
And now we must ask --are you one of those who "boldly" uses Scripture, or one of those who "private interprets"? To remind you , you are the one who says "men" will do the slaughter of Ezek.9. This, as we showed is completely false and it really amazes the truth seekers, the spirit that guides someone who cannot see the clear truth.
"He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them (2 Thes. 2:10)
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