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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: dedication]
#171929
02/20/15 12:37 AM
02/20/15 12:37 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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A fire blazed out from the holy of holies and consumed them. {Te 280.1}
APL, did this fire come from Satan?
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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: dedication]
#171936
02/20/15 05:23 AM
02/20/15 05:23 AM
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OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
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One cannot come into the direct presence of the Holy God of the universe who "dwells in the light which no man can approach "
(1 Tim. 6:16) in a sinful condition and live.
The sanctuary service gives us the pattern as to how we CAN come into to God's presence and live -- for eternity!
And there is also the case of Aaron's sons as to what happens when someone thinks they can rashly enter into God's presence on their own terms.
In order for us to "meet God" where His glory is present, we need to come through the "door", not by any other way.
Jesus says "I am the door John 10:7
The next step is the altar of sacrifice.
Jesus represents the Lamb sacrificed for our sins offering us forgiveness.
Next is the laver, for cleansing, accepting Christ's death for our sins, we also through baptism, reckon ourselves as dying to sin, and rising to a new cleansed life.
No priest could go into the sanctuary without these preparatory measures. Now those two men, probably did SOME of the motions, but they were "drunk" (with sin) and they obviously skipped the altar of sacrifice and took common fire, symbolic of self righteousness as they entered the temple.
The whole episode is symbolic that anyone who thinks they will stand before God on that last day in their sinful, yet self-righteous condition will find the fire of God to be a consuming fire.
But again why always focus on that?
Is our only reason for religion to escape punishment?
The Lord wants us to serve Him because HE LOVES US and wants the very best for us, and desires our love and friendship. He wants us to be saved, not lost.
He took our sins upon Himself so we do not have to die eternally. He clothes us with His robe of righteousness. He sends His Holy Spirit to convict us and lead us to Him for forgiveness, cleansing, and Who empowers us to walk in His ways. He has provided everything we need to stand on that day.
He wants us to obey because WE WANT to, (not because we fear) But because we enjoy His ways, and enjoy His fellowship, we want to walk with Him in righteousness, now and eternally.
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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#171941
02/20/15 06:28 AM
02/20/15 06:28 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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A fire blazed out from the holy of holies and consumed them. {Te 280.1}
APL, did this fire come from Satan? Very interesting fire was it not Eliphaz, I mean MM? Their cloths were intact. Amazing fire indeed!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#171943
02/20/15 06:30 AM
02/20/15 06:30 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Islamic Jihadists withdraw their protection and permit innocent women and children to be murdered. But when God does it, APL says - God respects free choice. You are not even comparing the same things, are you Eliphaz, I mean, MM?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: dedication]
#171944
02/20/15 06:35 AM
02/20/15 06:35 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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One cannot come into the direct presence of the Holy God of the universe who "dwells in the light which no man can approach "
(1 Tim. 6:16) in a sinful condition and live.
The sanctuary service gives us the pattern as to how we CAN come into to God's presence and live -- for eternity!
And there is also the case of Aaron's sons as to what happens when someone thinks they can rashly enter into God's presence on their own terms.
In order for us to "meet God" where His glory is present, we need to come through the "door", not by any other way.
Jesus says "I am the door John 10:7
The next step is the altar of sacrifice.
Jesus represents the Lamb sacrificed for our sins offering us forgiveness.
Next is the laver, for cleansing, accepting Christ's death for our sins, we also through baptism, reckon ourselves as dying to sin, and rising to a new cleansed life.
No priest could go into the sanctuary without these preparatory measures. Now those two men, probably did SOME of the motions, but they were "drunk" (with sin) and they obviously skipped the altar of sacrifice and took common fire, symbolic of self righteousness as they entered the temple.
The whole episode is symbolic that anyone who thinks they will stand before God on that last day in their sinful, yet self-righteous condition will find the fire of God to be a consuming fire.
But again why always focus on that?
Is our only reason for religion to escape punishment?
The Lord wants us to serve Him because HE LOVES US and wants the very best for us, and desires our love and friendship. He wants us to be saved, not lost.
He took our sins upon Himself so we do not have to die eternally. He clothes us with His robe of righteousness. He sends His Holy Spirit to convict us and lead us to Him for forgiveness, cleansing, and Who empowers us to walk in His ways. He has provided everything we need to stand on that day.
He wants us to obey because WE WANT to, (not because we fear) But because we enjoy His ways, and enjoy His fellowship, we want to walk with Him in righteousness, now and eternally. And why can't we come into God's presence in our sinful condition? Because it is not LEGAL to do so? He then has the LEGAL right to burn you up? Yes, He want our love. Can love be commanded? What will He do if we reject His love? Burn us alive? That is what MM and asygo and dedication have said. And God can LEGALLY do it. Because He is LOVE? Sin kills. The consequences of sin are intrinsic. That is why Sin is evil. It is not a legal problem. It is a REAL problem.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: APL]
#171945
02/20/15 08:19 AM
02/20/15 08:19 AM
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OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
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We are to come to Christ in our sinful condition to be forgiven, and cleansed.
There is a huge difference in us coming to Christ now and accepting him as our Lord and Savior -- (this we need to do, this we are invited to do) for all heaven is working for our salvation, not for our destruction.
And remember -- it is Christ's presence in all it's full glory that executes judgment. And no one in a sinful condition can be in that presence and live when His full glory, with the glory of the Father is revealed.
The second coming already shows this to be true.
And those who miss out on the second coming, already have missed out on eternal life.
There are two roads open for everyone.
1) Come to Christ NOW and receive His gift of salvation, freedom from sin, accept His cleansing and His peace, and promise of eternal life. And at His coming joyfully rise to meet Him and exclaiming, This is my God! My Friend, my Savior.
OR
2) Find yourself standing before the throne of Christ in all His glory, and with agonizing clearance see what Christ did to save you, but you rejected the gift of life, spurned it and now as you look at your mortal body (still with the traces that cased your first death) you realize all is lost. Everyone around you is getting very violent, maybe even blaming you for their lost condition -- but the terrible scene ends quickly as fire hot enough to melt stones puts a quick end to it all.
What does it matter WHERE that fire comes from --
The fact remains it will be there, and it will be literal and it will envelop the whole earth -- the only place of safety is in that city of God with Jesus.
We need to come to Christ NOW, for He wants to pull us out of the ways of sin, like a brand plucked from the burning,
Sin is both the transgression of God's law (legal issue) and it is intrinsically evil, malicious, and destructive (real problem). And Christ has the remedy to save both legally as well as cleansing and transforming the character.
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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: dedication]
#171947
02/20/15 02:58 PM
02/20/15 02:58 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Job, I mean APL, you cannot adequately defend your beliefs so you resort to name calling. How crude.
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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: dedication]
#171951
02/20/15 04:03 PM
02/20/15 04:03 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Sin is both the transgression of God's law (legal issue) and it is intrinsically evil, malicious, and destructive (real problem). And Christ has the remedy to save both legally as well as cleansing and transforming the character. You yourself talked about GMO recently. Was that not in connection of God's Law? Was that a legal transgression you were talking about? God's law is INTRINSIC. The results of transgression is INTRINSIC. It is true that all suffering results from the transgression of God's law, but this truth had become perverted. Satan, the author of sin AND ALL ITS RESULTS, had led men to look upon disease and death as proceeding from God [as Eliphaz said to Job],--as punishment arbitrarily inflicted on account of sin. Hence one upon whom some great affliction or calamity had fallen had the additional burden of being regarded as a great sinner. {DA 471.1} The whole chapter in DA is excellent, and I must quote some more: Thus the way was prepared for the Jews to reject Jesus. He who "hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows" was looked upon by the Jews as "stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted;" and they hid their faces from Him. Isaiah 53:4, 3. {DA 471.2}
God had given a lesson designed to prevent this. The history of Job had shown that suffering is inflicted by Satan, and is overruled by God for purposes of mercy. But Israel did not understand the lesson. The same error for which God had reproved the friends of Job was repeated by the Jews in their rejection of Christ. {DA 471.3} Yep - I think it will come down to this question: is God's Law intrinsic and all its results, or is it extrinsic and the punishment must be inflicted on the account of sin. That I think is the question.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#171952
02/20/15 04:08 PM
02/20/15 04:08 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Job, I mean APL, you cannot adequately defend your beliefs so you resort to name calling. How crude. Job? - I'm honored, more that I should be however for I am not blameless like Job. Eliphaz believed as you do MM - that God causes sickness, disease and death. That punishment was inflicted by God on the guilty. Read about it in the book of Job.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: What does it mean to "fear"?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#171971
02/21/15 03:12 AM
02/21/15 03:12 AM
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FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
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Job, I mean APL, you cannot adequately defend your beliefs so you resort to name calling. How crude. Geez, MM, this is the second time in a week you've been called something.
"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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