Quick correction-- meant to say verses 12:16 and 17 do not speak of historical events. But verse 15 is both historical and current. Satan since the early Christian church days has infiltrated the church with unconverted (flood of tares) and continues as we speak.

Satan has always flooded God's people with every conceivable method to wrench them away from Christ. Whether floods of persecution, and/or floods of false doctrines, or unconverted change agents.

That is not debated.
Indeed we are being flooded with a host of strange doctrines demanding we unlearn the truths of our Adventist beliefs.

Be it through false doctrines and deceit or physical persecution and death, the dragon rages against God's people by every means at his disposal.
The first is usually followed by the second. First come the deceptions and those he can't deceive the dragon will persecute and kill.

So what are we looking at here in the contextual meaning of Revelation 12:14-16


The quote from Gibbons (an historian) isn't talking about Revelation 12:14-16.

He is talking about the time of Constantine way back in the 4th century AD. This is a time period prior to the woman even fleeing into the wilderness, (he isn't talking about what helped her at the end of the 1260 years).

Gibbons (or was it Houteff using some phrases from Gibbons) seems to be saying the "pure woman" was the Catholic Church. Indeed the main church was corrupted by embracing paganism under a Christianised cloak, but that's NOT the woman that fled into the wilderness. Not being deceived by the paganization, the pure women faced PERSECUTION.

The dragon used the fallen Roman church to try to destroy the woman by persecution. The Roman church was the organization which caused the pure woman "God's church" to flee into the wilderness for 1260 years (538-1798)

The woman here in Revelation 12 was not the paganized Roman church, she fled because of the persecution ravished upon her. She went into to wilderness for protection, so she won't be annihilated. It was also a test -- Those who believed were given strength to endure or to suffer martyrdom, those who could not take the persecution compromised and joined the apostate Roman church and worldly temporal advantages.

"The serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood to carry away the true church. By its false doctrines the papacy had so corrupted all nations as to have absolute control of the civil power for long centuries. Through it Satan could hurl a mighty flood of persecution against God's church in every direction, and this he was not slow to do. Millions lost their lives.

What 'flood' did the dragon pour out against her? It was the flood of persecution. And history shows army after army, mob after mob being sent out to kill and destroy the church in the wilderness.

How did the earth help to end of those 1260 years of persecution?


Several times now it was shown how the "earth" symbol, is used in this portion of Revelation itself.

When looking for the meaning of a symbol in the Bible, one should FIRST look to see how the author himself uses that symbol.

How does John, the writer of The Revelation, use the symbol of "earth"?

Correction-- meant to say Rev.12:16-17 is future, and that Rev. 12:15 is both historical and future. Satan has brought tares (flood) into the church since the early Apostle days and even today continues, however with much greater success.

"While the Lord brings into the church those who are truly converted, Satan at the same time brings persons who are not converted into its fellowship. While Christ is sowing the good seed, Satan is sowing the tares.

There are two opposing influences continually exerted on the members of the church. One influence is working for the purification of the church, and the other for the corrupting of the people of God." (RH, Sept. 5, 1893)

Now let's look at the symbolic uses of "earth" in Revelation:



Rev 10:2
And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth.


Rev 10:5
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven


Rev 10:8
Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which stands upon the sea and upon the earth

Rev. 12:12 Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!

Rev 12:16
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth

Rev. 13:1 saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns
Rev 13:11
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;


When used symbolically there is the "sea" and the "earth" each symbolic for something different.

The symbolic meaning of sea seems readily understood by most -- the sea, full of water which represents people and nations, is symbolic of restless nations and the wickedness in them, for they are like a troubled sea that cannot rest but are constantly out to conquer and subdue each other, and from them flowed the errors and heresies which formed the man of sin (the first beast of Rev. 13) and his ambitions to force the whole world to worship at the false shrine.

The earth -- denotes more space, and less people.

The mighty angel placing one foot upon the sea, and one upon the land, implies that his proclamation pertains to all the dwellers upon the globe.

But obviously people don't, as a rule, live in the sea, so we know it's symbolic of the "sea of nations" jostling each other over in the "Old World".

But he also has one foot on the "earth".

Rev. 13 speaks of one nation coming up out of the earth -- the continent "discovered" and beginning it's growth near the end of the 1260 years.



So do you believe "earth" symbolizes the American continent in Revelation 13?

So the "sea" is symbolic of the "old world" (Euro/Asian continent)
The "earth" is symbolic of the "new world". (American continent)

Now let's review the Biblical use of the word "flood" once more.


HOW does the Bible use the term "flood" in prophecy?

What flood carried away Christ the Prince of the covenant in Daniel 11:22?
What flood broke the people to whom this covenant was first given?

Daniel 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

No, it was NOT a flood of tares being poured into Christ the Prince of the Covenant -- it was "arms" or armies -- in this case Roman armies that put Christ on the cross, and 40 years later destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. Of course false beliefs did have their role in bringing the flood, but the flood that destroyed was an army.

Daniel 9:26
"the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Again the word flood is used to describe armies coming to destroy the city of Jerusalem.


Isaiah 8:7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord brings up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, [even] the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks:
8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow {FLOOD] and go over, he shall reach even to the neck;

Here the "flood" is the Assyrian army that overflows or floods through Judah, up to the "neck" -- destroying all the cities around, only Jerusalem (the head of Judea) is spared.

Psalms 124:2-6
if it had not been the Lord who was on our side,when men rose up against us,then they would have swallowed us up alive,
when their anger was kindled against us;then the flood would have swept us away, the torrent would have gone over us;
then over us would have gone the raging waters.
Blessed be the Lord, who has not given us as prey to their teeth!


In the verses above we see that the Bible often uses "flood" as the armies or mobs out to destroy and overwhelm and kill.

In the same way it is used in Revelation 12 --
The papal armies (commanded into action by the dominating, powerful church of the middle ages) crusaded against God's faithful, killing millions.
Especially brutal and intense was this flood between 1200 - 1700 AD.


The earth -- swallows the flood of persecution--
This marks the end of the 1260 years of persecution.

Let's look at that closer:
Both the serpent [dragon] and the earth, have a "mouth".

Rev. 12:15-16
serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood
the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood

What does "mouth" symbolize?

The mouth makes declarations.
And when that mouth has power, it's declarations cause things to happen.

The dragon's mouth declares something and a flood results,
The earth declares something and the flood stops.
But later the beast that rises from the earth makes an image and enables the image to speak and the flood begins again.


"I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed....saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

In those verses from Revelation 13 we have several examples of what these declarations are all about.
To speak as the dragon causes or forces everyone (whether they want to or not) to worship the beast.
The image has power to speak and all who don't worship the image of the beast are killed.
These declarations have legal force behind them, -- worship the beast and his image or be killed.

Back to Revelation 12 -- the dragon or serpent mouth in Rev. 12 ordered the flood of persecution, the same as the Dragon voice in Rev. 13 -- worship according to beast's orders, or be killed. The decrees, and papal bulls and commands went out commanding the armies of the nations and civic powers to exterminate the church in the wilderness, to raze the towns where they lived to the ground (even Catholics who dared to shelter the so called "heretics" were killed without mercy).

The earth (the New Land -- America) opens her mouth, and what does "she" declare? what laws did this emerging nation enforce?
The bill of rights!
Freedom of religion! And many other rights set up to stop persecution and tyranny.

When the earth (the emerging new nation) opened her mouth and started making laws, those laws were specifically formulated to protect against the tyranny experienced in the "old world" it swallowed up the flood of persecution.

However, the "earth beast" has metamorphosed and is repudiating those laws that enabled truth to be preached without fear; the earth beast's mouth is starting to speak like the dragon, and soon it will create the image of the beast, joining hands with the beast -- and the image will speak new laws, that will cause the floods of persecution to resume.

This will be the test that will purify the church.

The chapter isn't saying there's going to be sink hole under every Adventist Church swallowing them -- no -- though I'm sure the devil would love that.

The dragon will try to get rid of this remnant, (the following chapters reveal more of his agenda) and in the process all the ungrounded ones will be swept out, joining the ranks of the worldly kingdom seekers.

Yes, he first sends his flood of false doctrines to try to unfit people to stand, filling their minds with all manner of doubts and uncertainties, telling us there won't be a crises. He is a deceiver promising earthly peace and temporal kingdoms and many other deceptive things, and then he sends the flood of persecution to scare people into his ranks.

This is the testing time that will test every member of the church, it will separate the tares from the wheat.
But if we have made Christ our all in all, and his Word our shield, He will not let one faithful follower be swept away.

Again, we see that our friend has tried to slip something in , whether we catch it or not.Let us look at the folly of listening and following those who attempt to do private interpretation. Apparently the lesson of Zech. 4 was not registered.

Ded-"The serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood to carry away the true church. By its false doctrines the papacy had so corrupted all nations as to have absolute control of the civil power for long centuries. Through it Satan could hurl a mighty flood of persecution against God's church in every direction, and this he was not slow to do. Millions lost their lives." (Daniel and the Revelation, p.513)

We asked Dedication for "INSPIRED" references for her following ideas--

Ded- "The earth--swallows the flood of persecution--and-- The earth (Amercia) swallowed up the flood of persecution."

What does she provide? An UN-inspired reference from Uriah Smith to back up her ideas. We too were once enamored with Mr. Smith until we searched closely his writings. Private men's theories may sound plausible but they are just that--private.

Ded- When looking for the meaning of a symbol in the Bible, one should FIRST look to see how the author himself uses that symbol.

This is off. For one thing this "author" is not John, rather the Holy Spirit. John had no input apart form listening as the Spirit moved him. Second, the Spirit that Dedication fails to follow has made clear and sound what the flood and earth swallowing mean.

She continues to try and separate the earth from the act--swallowing. Ofcourse the Scriptures make the term earth different meanings, but it is context in Rev 12:15-17 we need to focus.

Ded- So do you believe "earth" symbolizes the American continent in Revelation 13?

Yes I do, and you showed INSPIRED references for it.

The rest of her dissertation we'll not waste our time.

Remember our current study was identifying what the "flood" means and the "earth swallowing" means--per Rev. 12:15-16, these have been soundly shown and supported by the Scriptures and SOP, now let us move on.

We'd now like to finish with the verse 17--

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Rev. 12:15-17)

Let us pay close attention to this short yet powerful time line. Notice that the dragon gets wroth AFTER the earth swallows the flood.

Let us go back and point out Dedications false ideas again. She said Ded- "How did the earth help to end the 1260 years of persecution?"

She says the "end" of the persecution is when the earth (AMERICA) swallows the "flood of persecution". But how can that be when we see that the dragon is angry AFTER the swallowing? And goes to make "war" after this swallowing. It's been over 200 years since her idea ended (1798 was the swallowing time's end), and still no dragon wrath of persecution or his "warring" after God's people.

This all points to the fact that Satan is quite happy with the church right now! Since the end of 1260 years of prosecution, the church has exponentially swelled with TONS of tares--FLOOD.

When SOP says that "few" will be saved, this no doubt shows that the vast majority of the SDA members are part of Satan's --FLOOD.But this WILL CHANGE when the Lord "takes the reins into His own hands". (TM p.300)

So in order to fall for her ideas we must assume that there is a wide distance of time from mid-sentences! Total illogical and private! Instead we must as EGW says "take the Bible as it reads" (GC, p.598-599).

Bottom line --

The dragon is to be angry with the woman (God's church) because his "flood" of tares has been removed (earth swallowing--EZEKIEL 9). Being relieved of the tares for the FIRST TIME since the early days of the Apostolic church, The church can now go forward with the Loud Cry (See RH, Nov. 19, 1908). She at this time goes through out the world "conquering and to conquer"(PK, p.725).

Isaiah was a witness to this separation in the end time.--

"And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and purged the bloodshed of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning,then the LORD will create over the whole area of Mount Zion and over her assemblies a cloud by day, even smoke, and the brightness of a flaming fire by night; for over all the glory will be a canopy." (Isaiah 4:3-5)

In all of Scripture there is perhaps no better cross reference to Rev. 12:16 (the church purification) than Isaiah 66:15-20

For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD."


Amen.

He who is guided by the Spirit of Truth, let him rejoice! (END OF STUDY)

I think your comments are misleading. I believe most, at least for Dedication, believes the Bible was inspired of God. But different "authors" wrote it. Would you be suggesting that none of the words in Revelation were of John's choosing?

Perhaps he does not believe EGW - who was inspired:

The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen. Look at the different writers. {1SM 21.1}

It is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. Inspiration acts not on the man's words or his expressions but on the man himself, who, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. But the words receive the impress of the individual mind. The divine mind is diffused. The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the word of God.-- Manuscript 24, 1886 (written in Europe in 1886). {1SM 21.2}

And EGW, who was inspired also strongly supported the distribution of U. Smith's book, something that would not make him to happy I suspect...

"How did the earth help to end the 1260 years of persecution?"

GLL: She says the "end" of the persecution is when the earth (AMERICA) swallows the "flood of persecution".

Yes, that is when the 1260 years of persecution ended.
The 1260 years ended in 1798.

GLL--but how can that be when we see that the dragon is angry AFTER the swallowing?

There is a time of peace (after all the woman is HELPED by the earth) What does it mean when HELP COMES? It means the flood is stopped for the time being. And I gave you plenty of inspired references from scripture
When the earth opens her mouth and makes the "bill of rights" the law, a time commences when the church with the three angel's message is called forth to preach the message to the world.

The three angel's messages began to sound 1840 --> 1844 --" 1863 the church is officially formed -->

200 years is nothing in God's timeline. Be grateful for the years of peace and use them to spread the message.



GLL --And goes to make "war" after this swallowing. It's been over 200 years since her idea ended (1798 was the swallowing time's end), and still no dragon wrath of persecution or his "warring" after God's people.

Are you serious? Do you really think there is no dragon wrath now? Seems he is extremely busy setting up things for his final assault. Casting all manner of doubt and confusion in the minds of people. Setting up political conditions secretly (and not so secretly) so the final trap of persecution will spring with terrible deadly power.

It will come, and when the nation that rose from the earth, and helped by giving religious freedom will totally change it's speaking -- it will speak as the dragon -- it speaks different laws -- repudiating her constitution and bill of rights, it will come.
We need to pray that we are securely in Christ.




But this period of peace will end.

I see I was not quite right. It's not the Bible that was inspired but it was men who were inspired in their writings of the Bible.