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Re: Lesson Study #1 - The Personality & Divinity of the HOLY SPIRIT
#17522
04/01/06 04:26 AM
04/01/06 04:26 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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quote:
Originally posted by västergötland:
Colin
I wonder, which do you rest your beliefs most upon, the bible or the SDA pioneers views (about the bible)?
More on the Bible, thanks for asking, but the SDA pioneers' interpretation is better than our theologians' efforts today, so the pioneers get mentioned with the Bible. First the Bible, then our pioneers, then our current theologians.
You don't think our pioneers made more sense on the Bible truths than our theologians, today?
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Re: Lesson Study #1 - The Personality & Divinity of the HOLY SPIRIT
#17524
04/01/06 11:30 PM
04/01/06 11:30 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin:
More on the Bible, thanks for asking, but the SDA pioneers' interpretation is better than our theologians' efforts today, so the pioneers get mentioned with the Bible. First the Bible, then our pioneers, then our current theologians.
You don't think our pioneers made more sense on the Bible truths than our theologians, today?
I think, who cares what the pioneers thought until we know what the bible teaches.
The main use of external sources as far as I am conserned is background information (like the different meanings a word in hebrew can have or the importance of fig trees in first century israel) which there is no obvious reason they would have a better understanding of than modern theologians do.
The secould use of external sources is the sermons of great preachers who had the gift of teaching, showing how things may be put together.
The least use of external sources is the one that appears to be alarmingly popular, which in caricature goes something like this "SoAndSo said verse 12 of chapter 1 of book ____ means this and person 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 agree with person SoAndSo, therefore person XY must understand it in that way aswell for person XY to qualify in my checklist of what a Christian/SDA/FillInTheBlank is.
How could I make this clearer, I could say that I find reading the bible with the extrabiblical SoAndSo's thughts as glases to be lousy exegesis.
/Thomas
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Re: Lesson Study #1 - The Personality & Divinity of the HOLY SPIRIT
#17525
04/02/06 04:01 AM
04/02/06 04:01 AM
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Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Thomas, We are always told to use the Bible. The pioneers did the same thing, and even though some had differeing views such as Uriah Smith in stating that one of the trumpets was about Islam, or the Ottoman empire or something along those lines was incorrect. I enjoy reading what the pioneers wrote, and thought, but always use the Bible or the backup. The great things and not so great things of the Bible are backed up archeologically, and historocally. I am not sure if every single instance is, but we know about Babylon being in Iraq, and this same babylon is mentioned in the Bible, Cyrus was prohpesied about over 150years prior to him conquering Babylon, and the fall of babylon as well as Cyrus e written about on an object called a "Cone" its a clay cone, and is held at a museum, so sometimes external sources are not all that bad. Depending on the source I suppose, but its our job to search for Bible truths regardless of who our favorite author was and is. I hope this will give yo uinspriation to search as well, you know digging for gold isn't easy and requires alot of work, and sometimes disappointements as well, but the end result is wonderful ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif) God Bless, Will
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Re: Lesson Study #1 - The Personality & Divinity of the HOLY SPIRIT
#17527
04/02/06 12:30 PM
04/02/06 12:30 PM
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E. Oregon, USA
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Thomas originally replied to me with quote:
I think, who cares what the pioneers thought until we know what the bible teaches.
Bearing in mind the 3 uses of external sources you mention - where the first 2 combine as worthy insights, the understanding one has of the Bible teaching can be challenged by one's church's publications of the day. Does one agree with our current theologians when one's first understanding of the Bible is an opposite view? One doesn't resort to the pioneers' writings to find truth so much as to find an Adventist literally agreement with one's view.
But then the SOP has its own Biblical authority - yes, not its own authority, but Biblical authority, while our other writers of that time agree with her from their own & joint Bible studies. So "truth" is one's individual conviction of Bible teachings backed up by a collective conviction among one's brethern in the church. Do our founders have less weight on doctrine than those among us who have studied various churches' and linguistic viewpoints to hold their academic qualifications and posts? It is indeed a serious question: whose view of God and salvation is the right one. I hope my position is clear.
Yes, the pioneer writings both help to inform our convictions of truth but more often merely confirm our understanding. Because our published theologians differ with our pioneers on several points, there is the perceived 3rd use of external sources (as listed by you): Are our pioneers' positions actually more importance than our theologians teachings today? A collective voice in harmony with the SOP is a strong voice, but that isn't how everyone thinks.
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Re: Lesson Study #1 - The Personality & Divinity of the HOLY SPIRIT
#17530
04/02/06 02:35 PM
04/02/06 02:35 PM
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E. Oregon, USA
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quote:
Originally posted by Rosangela:
To me the problem is not pioneers x modern theologians, but pioneers x Bible (and, in the second place, the SOP).
Acts 17:11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
Light is progressive. Some of the pioneers' views had to be given up (like, for instance, the shut door).
For all the infamous history of the shut door teaching, it's the simple question of 'how' probation closes - at the beginning of the antitypical day of atonement (as per the 'typical' day's service) or at its end.
Is today's teaching on the sanctuary truth better than the pioneers' view, while we've adopted a range of possible options on other issues - all of which options are said to be allowed. There appears to be a actual philosophical difference, and the earlier reading has a deeper, more thorough spiritual lesson than the newer reading.
Is this actually going off topic...? Only halfway, I think, to be fair. See how it goes.
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Re: Lesson Study #1 - The Personality & Divinity of the HOLY SPIRIT
#17531
04/02/06 02:45 PM
04/02/06 02:45 PM
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As far as the Holy Spirit being God in the same sense that the Father is God and Jesus Christ, the Son, is God, this reformatted quote from Monday's study makes sense to me: quote:
Attributes of the Holy Spirit include truth (John 16:13), life (Rom. 8:2), and omnipotence (1 Cor 2:10, 11)—attributes associated with divinity.
Jesus, in Matthew 12:31, 32, says blasphemy spoken against Him can be forgiven but not blasphemy spoken against the Holy Spirit, a concept that doesn't make much sense if the Holy Spirit is anything less than God.[/b]
Matthew 1:20, where Jesus is conceived in the womb of Mary through the Holy Spirit, is also a difficult text to understand if the Holy Spirit were not truly God. (See also Gen. 1:2.)
We really need to keep the role functions of them in mind when we look at each of them. Doing that answers questions that would otherwise not be answered.
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