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When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
#175242
07/12/15 01:14 AM
07/12/15 01:14 AM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,126
Florida, USA
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I have always wondered how we could get to a point where we couldn't Buy or Sell, and now it seems clear from the near collapse of Greece. "ATHENS — Greeks faced shuttered banks and a closed stock market Monday at the beginning of a fateful week that may determine whether they will be able to hold on to the euro currency...The blows from the breakdown in talks between Greece and its creditors also pummeled financial markets. Asian and European exchanges were down sharply, the euro slumped, and Wall Street plummeted, with Greece less than 24 hours away from being unable to pay its bills." https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/gre...ace1_story.htmlThe banks closed overnight, people could not access their funds, businesses could not pay their employees or order materials and parts. Basically Greece and its people could not buy and sell, and worse would have happened if it was allowed to run its course and Germany and the rest of Europe had not stepped in, and we still will see. http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/11/greek-banks-to-run-out-of-money-by-monday-without-ecb-help.htmlBeing shut down was done overnight with hardly a change in current law or use of legislation, with a nationwide effect if not worldwide especially on the various markets. It had a potential to grow into a devastating world wide collapse which caused the US President to press Germany to cave in and give the additional Billions to Greece which I think would have been allowed to separate itself monetarily from the European Union and Euro. Here is a description of what will happen by Clifford Goldstein, which now has become much clearly how it can occur... "Buying and selling are a fact of life, as certain as taxes and almost as certain as death. From the time when folks bought and sold by bartering— exchanging sheep and goats for spices and wine—to our present transactions that are transmitted online with the speed of light, the human way of life consists of buying and selling. From the trade routes of the ancient world to Communist China today, and from the feudal system of medieval Europe to Wall Street, human beings have been engaged in a constant exchange of goods and services that are traded for some form of payment. These payments run the gamut from goats to hard cash to online money transfers. In one way or another, buying and selling lie at the core of our human existence. It’s hard to imagine civilization—any civilization— without the ability to exchange goods and services for money. What, then, are we to make of a warning in the biblical book of Revelation, which explicitly talks about the last days and the events that lead to them? In the context of the great struggle between good and evil that will unfold with increasing drama as we near the end of time, Revelation says, “He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name” (Revelation 13:15–17, italics added). You can’t buy or sell? You should be killed? Clearly, people will be playing hardball in the last days!"
Last edited by Rick H; 07/12/15 01:27 AM.
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Re: When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
[Re: Rick H]
#175244
07/12/15 06:51 AM
07/12/15 06:51 AM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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The pope has earlier made an excepton acknoledging as Christians those members of an other denomination who were apposed to the ordination of women.
Do you think his strategy has changed?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
[Re: Johann]
#175249
07/12/15 10:23 AM
07/12/15 10:23 AM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,126
Florida, USA
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The pope has earlier made an excepton acknoledging as Christians those members of an other denomination who were apposed to the ordination of women.
Do you think his strategy has changed? Not quite sure how that relates to not being able to Buy or Sell...
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Re: When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
[Re: Rick H]
#175251
07/12/15 10:35 AM
07/12/15 10:35 AM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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From history we know that the pope gives exceptions to those who are against the ordination of women. So when the stores are closed to those who follow Jesus Christ and His word, you will be able to get a special card to show your supplier because you can "prove" that you are opposed to the ordination of women.
Will you call that an answer to prayer?
Last edited by Johann; 07/12/15 10:36 AM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
[Re: Johann]
#175310
07/13/15 06:28 PM
07/13/15 06:28 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Exceptions From history we know that the pope gives exceptions to those who are against the ordination of women. So when the stores are closed to those who follow Jesus Christ and His word, you will be able to get a special card to show your supplier because you can "prove" that you are opposed to the ordination of women.
Will you call that an answer to prayer?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
[Re: Rick H]
#175319
07/14/15 07:12 AM
07/14/15 07:12 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,442
Canada
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The issue will not be women's ordination (that whole heated debate is simply to bring division and take people's minds off the real issues) The ticket to buying or selling will be concerning God's 10 commandment law -- specifically the enforcement of a false day of worship.
There will be buying and selling in the last crises, as those who have the "mark of the beast" will be able to buy and sell. So not sure how banks crashing and all buying and selling comes to a halt is really the fulfillment; though a teetering economy may very well be an excuse to regulate buying and selling.
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Re: When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
[Re: Rick H]
#175320
07/14/15 07:29 AM
07/14/15 07:29 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,442
Canada
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"The beast with lamb-like horns commands "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads; and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." [Revelation 13:16, 17.] {4SP 279.1}
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Re: When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
[Re: dedication]
#175321
07/14/15 10:23 AM
07/14/15 10:23 AM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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"The beast with lamb-like horns commands "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads; and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." [Revelation 13:16, 17.] {4SP 279.1} Our understanding is that the beast with lamb-like horns is the United States. There is nothing to prevent the mark "in their right hand" from being a mark in the VISA or MASTER card people hold in their right hand. Then notice the "or" between three possibilities. This is an indication there is more than one kind of "mark". We are also told that prophecy is not only given to predict in details what will happen in the future, but also that we might recognize the event when it happens. I doubt seriously that John the revelator had ever heard of electronic credit cards or knew the exact words to describe these gadgets, but he is giving us a hint. Long before credit cards, our people recognized that papacy was using Sunday worship as a "mark". There is no reason to doubt this will still be a mark in the future. In our days the catholic church has given the refusal to ordain women as another "mark" of allegiance where Sunday is not the issue. That helps us understand the two "or"s expressed by the prophet - provided we are willing to go by the text of Scripture. I happen to have a MASTER card on an American bank. It has a different mark than banks in Europe are using, so I am having a hard time finding a bank in my country which accepts the mark. I once used this card when entering the parking lot at our closest international airport. I was able to enter, but the machine at the exit refused to accept the card so the gate would not open, and I could not use a different card there than the one used by the entrance. It forced me to leave the car and go to the office where they could trace my use of the MASTER card. With a card they gave me I was finally at liberty to leave the airport area. This experience reminded me of buying and selling, although in this case I was not buying food or merchandice but a parking space while delivering my granddaughter to the plane on her way home to her parents. A third mark of allegiance given by the pope himself, that I have noticed, is the belief that salvation is not a free choice of the individual. And the pope himself has declared that this could be his main issue with Seventh-day Adventists and certain other evangelical churches. It is even stated that this is a more difficult matter to solve than issues with the Muslim world. That mark is in your brain - forehead - and your relationship with your creator and savior. Why are we not following these emphatic fulfillments of prophecy? What are we afraid of?
Last edited by Johann; 07/14/15 10:43 AM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
[Re: Rick H]
#175327
07/14/15 03:30 PM
07/14/15 03:30 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
I imagine having the name includes having the mark, and having the number includes having the name and the mark. But it is also possible, perhaps, to have the mark without having the name or number.
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Re: When You Can't Buy or Sell, or the warning of Greece and its near collapse
[Re: Rick H]
#175333
07/14/15 08:14 PM
07/14/15 08:14 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Philippians 3:15 (ERV)
15 All of us who have grown to be spiritually mature should think this way too. And if there is any of this that you don’t agree with, God will make it clear to you.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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