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The real covenant
#175540
07/21/15 11:30 PM
07/21/15 11:30 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Which is more important to us, The seal of God, or the mark of the beast?
Have you noticed that the Bbile calls the Ten Commandments the Covenant? Hebrew scholars tell us that the language of the Commandments are the language of a covenant and not a prohiition.
In the middle of this covenant you have the expression "Remeber" That is part of the covenant. Within this covenant with our Creator we serve no other gods, we worship on no other day, we do not steal or speak an untruth. So in this covenant you keep the seventh-day Sabbath and no other day, neither the first nor the sixth day of the week.
Legalism will deministh the importance of the this covenant by making it merely a set of "Thou shalt nots" in order to gain salvation.
When our friends, Lea and Gudmundur Olafsson, dropped by a coupe of days ago this was the gist of our conversation. Before they left Lea reminded us that it was when Gudmundur was my student back in 1954-5 and I wrote some words in Greek and Hebrew on the blackboard, that he hearc a voice from behind telliing him that this was to be his special study, so he went far ahead and became a teacher of Old Testament at Newbold College and at Pacific Union College. We had gone through this before and it is a blessing each time we renew this covenant idea.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: The real covenant
[Re: Johann]
#175552
07/22/15 04:23 PM
07/22/15 04:23 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Amen! A Covenant of do's and don'ts. "The law of God existed before the creation of man or else Adam could not have sinned. After the transgression of Adam the principles of the law were not changed, but were definitely arranged and expressed to meet man in his fallen condition. Christ, in counsel with His Father, instituted the system of sacrificial offerings; that death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor, should be transferred to a victim which should prefigure the great and perfect offering of the Son of God. {1SM 230.1} God's Commandments Are Sure
The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness. Psalm 111:7, 8. {FLB 80.1}
The law of God existed before the creation of man or else Adam could not have sinned. After the transgression of Adam the principles of the law were not changed, but were definitely arranged and expressed to meet man in his fallen condition. {FLB 80.2}
The angels were governed by it [the law]. Satan fell because he transgressed the principles of God's government. After Adam and Eve were created, God made known to them His law. It was not then written, but was rehearsed to them by Jehovah. {FLB 80.3}
In love, with a desire to elevate and ennoble us, God provided for us a standard of obedience. In awful majesty, amid thundering and lightning, He proclaimed from Mount Sinai His ten holy precepts. This law reveals the whole duty of the human family; the first four precepts define our duty to God, and the last six our duty to man. {FLB 80.4}
The law of God, being a revelation of His will, a transcript of His character, must forever endure, "as a faithful witness in heaven." Not one command has been annulled; not a jot or tittle has been changed. Says the psalmist: "For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven." Psalm 119:89. {FLB 80.5}
From the first, the great controversy had been upon the law of God. Satan had sought to prove that God was unjust, that His law was faulty, and that the good of the universe required it to be changed. In attacking the law, he aimed to overthrow the authority of its Author. {FLB 80.6}
Through Satan's temptations the whole human race have become transgressors of God's law; but by the sacrifice of His Son a way is opened whereby they may return to God. Through the grace of Christ they may be enabled to render obedience to the Father's law. {FLB 80.7}
When we trust God fully, when we rely upon the merits of Jesus as a sin-pardoning Saviour, we shall receive all the help that we can desire. {FLB 80.8}
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Re: The real covenant
[Re: Johann]
#175567
07/23/15 01:41 AM
07/23/15 01:41 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Which is more important to us, the seal of God, or the mark of the beast?
Have you noticed that the Bbile calls the Ten Commandments the Covenant? Hebrew scholars tell us that the language of the Commandments are the language of a covenant and not a prohiition. In the middle of this covenant you have the expression "Remeber" That is part of the covenant. Within this covenant with our Creator we serve no other gods, we worship on no other day, we do not steal or speak an untruth. So in this covenant you keep the seventh-day Sabbath and no other day, neither the first nor the sixth day of the week. Legalism will deministh the importance of the this covenant by making it merely a set of "Thou shalt nots" in order to gain salvation.
When our friends, Lea and Gudmundur Olafsson, dropped by a coupe of days ago this was the gist of our conversation. Before they left Lea reminded us that it was when Gudmundur was my student back in 1954-5 and I wrote some words in Greek and Hebrew on the blackboard, that he hearc a voice from behind telliing him that this was to be his special study, so he went far ahead and became a teacher of Old Testament at Newbold College and at Pacific Union College. We had gone through this before and it is a blessing each time we renew this covenant idea. It is evident from your opening question that you are viewing the issue from Revelation's perspective: the seal of God vs the mark of the beast. Then you needlessly digressed to turn the seal of God into the fourth commandment of the Decalogue. Revelation tells you what the seal of God is: THE NAME OF GOD (Rev. 14:1 cf Rev. 7:3-4). And the mark of the beast is THE NAME OF THE BEAST: " they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:11) It is the converse of and competing sign to that of God. To turn these two emblems into what they are not, is to prophecy falsely. And they are NOT literal letters on foreheads, but are symbolic of two groups of people who are called by one name or the other. Those that belong to Jesus Christ are called Christians and manifest the character of God versus those who do not and manifest instead the character of Satan, the Dragon (just as the beast looks, speaks and behaves like his sponsor and enabler, Rev. 13:1 cf Rev. 12:3). This is not a warfare of Catholics against SDA, but the spirit of death against the spirit of life, pride against humility, discipline against mercy, character against character: those against Christ seeking to cast out those who love and follow Him. On which side of the fence are you? What are you like as a person? Mat. 25:31-46 ///
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Re: The real covenant
[Re: Johann]
#175569
07/23/15 04:24 AM
07/23/15 04:24 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Exodus 31:13 Speak you also to the children of Israel, saying, Truly my sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you.
Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: The real covenant
[Re: Johann]
#175570
07/23/15 04:49 AM
07/23/15 04:49 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exodus 34:27 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exodus 34:28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Leviticus 24:8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the Lord continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
Leviticus 26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
Numbers 25:12 Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
Luke 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: The real covenant
[Re: Johann]
#175577
07/23/15 02:48 PM
07/23/15 02:48 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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James, do you think the USA will legislate and enforce Sunday Laws the way described in the SOP?
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Re: The real covenant
[Re: Mountain Man]
#175587
07/24/15 03:28 AM
07/24/15 03:28 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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James, do you think the USA will legislate and enforce Sunday Laws the way described [by Ellen White]? What does Jesus Christ (in the book of His Revelation) say is: - The seal of God, and
- The mark of the beast?
I would like to think that he must be the final authority on the matter. And he did not leave it up to you to guess or go searching aimlessly between the lines and letters of books. He PLAINLY says what those two things are: - In Rev. 7:3-4, John saw an angel "saying, '... till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads' ... 144,000". And then in Rev. 14:1 he says he saw "a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 having His Father’s name written on their foreheads." So the SEAL of God equals the NAME of God.
- ...
- In Rev. 13:17, John said he saw many tempted to "receive the mark or name of the beast" which the third angel of Rev. 14 corroborated with a dire warning against receiving "the mark of his name". (v.11). It is self-evident therefore that the MARK of the beast is the NAME of the beast.
A NAME is not a day on which to assemble for worship, but a reflection of character. See Mat. 25:31-46. So then, given the word of Jesus Christ, how could I possibly turn away and believe what has been falsely predicted: VATICAN + WASHINGTON -- vs -- SDA, hmmmm? How could YOU?? ///
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Re: The real covenant
[Re: Johann]
#175588
07/24/15 02:45 PM
07/24/15 02:45 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Name in the Bible = character. The Law is a transcript of God's character.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: The real covenant
[Re: Johann]
#175589
07/24/15 02:58 PM
07/24/15 02:58 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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James, thank you for answering my question.
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Re: The real covenant
[Re: Johann]
#175590
07/24/15 03:17 PM
07/24/15 03:17 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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The "real covenant," as Pastor Johann worded it, includes the Everlasting Covenant. Genesis 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that [is] upon the earth. 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Isaiah 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen. The New Covenant is also applicable: Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away. 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people". "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you . . . And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
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