1. Example of a prophet that did not understand (Dan. 7 & 8)
2. Example of a prophet whose prophecy was conditional (Jonah 3)

In both instances, Daniel and Jonah did NOT act presumptuously. They did NOT lie about receiving a word from God. Though Daniel did not understand, he wrote what he saw and heard. "Thus saith the Lord ...." Similarly, Jonah delivered a conditional prophecy to the people, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!" BUT that was not the only thing he said. We know this because of the response of the King himself, "Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?"

False prophets, on the other hand, simply chatter like empty vessels: they lie; and when they are caught, they excuse themselves in a million different ways, one of which is to say that the word was conditional -- AFTER THE FACT. Looking at Ellen White through this lens, it behooves every SDA to be fully persuaded in his or her own mind about the canonization of her works.

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I didn’t really address Alchemy first and second point properly.



This is a HUGE assumption that I have always heard thru out my years in the Church. It’s not even biblical for the Lord says clearly in Num 12:8 that He speaks in “dark speeches” to prophets. Dark Speeches comes from the Hebrew word chiydah (H2420 that means “a puzzle, a riddle” that is difficult to solve). This word is used 17 times in the Bible where 9 times it is used in Judges relating to the difficult riddle Samson gave at his wedding party.

Thus in Num 12:8 it is clear that the word of the Lord given to prophets comes in an obscured language and does not come with the interpretation and is given as a puzzle to be solve. In the whole Bible, I think only Joseph and Daniel that we read got the interpretation of some dreams. But as Alchemy correctly noted that not all the interpretation were given to Daniel. I will extend also to most other prophets.


It is true that Abraham spent 12 years with the incorrect understanding that Ishmael was the promised son. Now the birth and life of Ishmael was part of a prophesy also. Abraham had 2 sons, like the Lord had 2 sons. Abraham’s 2 sons were a type & shadow of the Lord’s two sons that Paul explained in Gal 4.

The first son, was birthed by Mama Egypt, was a carnal son that refused to hear the Holy Spirit, received the law outside their body on stones, and tried to keep it with their own vow, will & ability of the flesh. Paul says Ishmael represents the earthly Jerusalem. Also Paul tells us that Ishmael persecuted Isaac. The bible doesn’t tell us in what way, but it was so bad that Ishmael and his mother had to be cast out. The Lord’s second son represents the Overcomers, that constitute the New Jerusalem, and rely on Jesus to keep His vow to write all His laws on their heart via the personal teachings of the Holy Spirit. Also, Paul tells us that the second son represents the New covenant, whereas the first son represents the Old covenant.

I don’t believe the above was reveal to Abraham. Only the part of his understanding was corrected. Only the part that Ishmael was not the promise son when he got the news that Sarah was going to be pregnant. I really doubt that more than that was reveal then. So to say that the Lord corrected everything to Abraham when he got the news Sarah was going to have a son, is a HUGE assumption that is not said in the Bible. For sure Abraham got some more revelation afterwards especially when he offered Isaac as a sacrifice. But I do not believe that Abraham understanding was nearly complete as you are assuming.


I agree with the highlighted and underlined above, but disagree that everything was corrected and reveal to Abraham about Isaac & Ishmael.

The interpretation rarely comes to the prophet itself, but it is reserve much later on depending on the timing when He will fulfill that prophecy. The fulfillment of prophecies often comes sometimes in the futur generations.

I see this principe in this story of Abraham. Abraham only got the correction of his understanding of the promise son just 1 year prior to the birth of Isaac, but I doubt that much more than that was given to him then. This is what I see standing out in this story.

Hagar and Ishmael was NOT part of the prophecy to Abraham. Not ever. Yet, God did say, after the fact, that He would bless Ishmael. But, Hagar and Ishmael were big mistakes on the part of Abraham and Sarah.

This is one that we all should look at in relation to the critics of EGW:
http://wwww.ellenwhite.org/content/faq/answers-critics

The people who fight over Ellen White, criticizing her on the one hand and vehemently defending her on the other, are like those who play for third place at the FIFA World Cup. They lost the Cup already! The Great Controversy is NOT over Ellen White.

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This discussion in not to critic Ellen White nor am I interested to bring up any of the items the link is talking about.

It is about criticizing the Church for failling to Canonnize or do a cleanup in her writings.

I even said that Ellen and James was right to tell us not to quote her, that it was our Christian Duty to test all things and making the Bible our only standard. However the Church did not listen to those counsel and many others of the sort.

1. SDA have already canonized her writing. The link Daryl provided and FB#18 are evidence enough.

2. Give TWO or THREE examples of things SDA should remove from her work for it to be cleansed, and reasons for your advice.

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The people who fight over Ellen White, criticizing her on the one hand and vehemently defending her on the other, are like those who play for third place at the FIFA World Cup. They lost the Cup already! The Great Controversy is NOT over Ellen White.

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1. FB#18 is no proof EGW writings has been canonized.

2. For instance, a)personal letters, b)all writings from the pen of others(her team), c)anything that was changed or added by the Church, d)anything that she was expressing her understanding at the time.

The Great Controversy is definitely NOT over Ellen White, however, the book, The Great Controversy, that she wrote, under the inspiration of God, is all about the great controversy between Christ and Satan, between Good and Evil.