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Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: Rick H] #178157
11/16/15 10:57 PM
11/16/15 10:57 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Is Rev 18 talking about the same "plagues"?

But as far as lasting the whole 1260 days, does it indicate that? Comparing Dan 12 with Rev, I see it as a progressive time until Babylon's cup is full.

Then contrast that with the 1260 years where the power becomes less and less towards 1798.

Da 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

"Completely shattered" doesn't seem to reflect the years leading up to 1798.

Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: Rick H] #178158
11/17/15 02:07 AM
11/17/15 02:07 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
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The context of Revelation 18 seems to be the final plagues.

"And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft [he be], shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee". Verse 22


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: kland] #178161
11/17/15 03:10 AM
11/17/15 03:10 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Is Rev 18 talking about the same "plagues"?

But as far as lasting the whole 1260 days, does it indicate that? Comparing Dan 12 with Rev, I see it as a progressive time until Babylon's cup is full.

Then contrast that with the 1260 years where the power becomes less and less towards 1798.

Da 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

"Completely shattered" doesn't seem to reflect the years leading up to 1798.

Rather ...
  • "the holy people" = the Jews (Dan. 9:24a)
  • "when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered" = 70AD (Dan. 9:27b)
The Bible interprets itself. (2 Peter 1:20-21)

///

Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: Alchemy] #178166
11/17/15 09:02 AM
11/17/15 09:02 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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I was thinking about the time aspect and I believe God reminded me about Revelation 18 where the "angel" says "in one day" as opposed to "those who stand afar off" saying "in one hour".

One day would represent one year within which all these last events would be fulfilled. The synagogue of Satan worshipping at the saints feet among some other events. I wouldn't expect these last events to take one year.

Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: Rick H] #178169
11/17/15 09:34 AM
11/17/15 09:34 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
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I was thinking about the "one hour" statements as well. Perhaps, it means the plagues will last about 15 days? Only, God knows for certain.

Whatever the true timeframe, it will be a period of incredible horror; hopefully, The Lord's mercy will cause the last plagues to pass swiftly.


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: ProdigalOne] #178193
11/17/15 09:12 PM
11/17/15 09:12 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
The context of Revelation 18 seems to be the final plagues.

"And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft [he be], shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee". Verse 22

But isn't this the end-game, the fall of Babylon, after all the plagues?

Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: Rick H] #178229
11/18/15 11:32 AM
11/18/15 11:32 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
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I am no expert, but doesn't the seventh plague occur just before Christ's return?



In chapter 15, Seven Angels with the seven Plagues are given seven golden vials of God's wrath:


Revelation 15:6-8
"And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled."



The seventh vial/plague appears to be the final one before Christ returns:


Revelation 16:17-21
"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, [every stone] about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."




Chapter 18 begins with an Angel repeating part of the Three Angel's Message:


Revelation 18:1-2
"And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."




Another voice warns of the coming Plagues and the "one day" period is mentioned:


Revelation 18:4-8
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her PLAGUES.
For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Therefore shall her PLAGUES come in ONE DAY, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.



The kings of the earth mention the "one hour" period:

Revelation 18:9-10
"And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in ONE HOUR is thy judgment come."


One prophetic day = one literal year.

One prophetic hour = fifteen literal days: 365 divided by 24 = 15.2


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: Rick H] #178248
11/18/15 10:38 PM
11/18/15 10:38 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Midland
Yes, for the most part. But different ordering I see.

Rev 18:4-8:
Come out of her - Plagues can't start until "all" sealed, so there's still time to repent.
Plagues come in one day - Could indicate a year.

Compare 18:9-10 with 16:17-21 - city divided, nations fell. Could be a different fall than in 18:1-2 where Babylon doctrine is presented for what it is.

And I don't see the 7th plague as when Christ comes, but before He comes. What you said, but a qualifier. Ellen White says the remnant left at the end will be told the time He will come, at the Voice of God.

At the 7th plague, the one hours come.

Notice there are two different ones.
Re 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.

Kings are reigning, not falling.

Re 18:10 "standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'

Re 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Re 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

This hour is the falling.

So I see it, bad things happen, kings stray further and pass laws, the plagues come, and all throughout the plagues, things are setting up.
Re 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.


After they pass the death decree to put a final end to God's people, the ones they are blaming for all the plagues. They make merry and give gifts to one another, but before it goes into effect (15 days), God's people are delivered at the 7th plague by the Voice of God, and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. That's when everyone sees the writing of fire in the sky. At that point, the city of Babylon falls. Utter chaos, more than during the plagues, utter hopelessness, for this is when the people attack their pastors for lying to them.

This is brief, but assuming you are familiar with some of the things I mentioned. To me, this fits in line. When you look at the rest of 18, it seems to be talking about the fall of Babylon, at the end of the seven plagues (during the 7th) rather than the seven plagues being of one hour. Plagues of a day contrasted with the "plagues" of the hour.

Some speculate that for the decree to go into effect, there must be legislation which often takes effect in July, so they backtrack and say such-and-such. But I say the kings can pass any laws most any time. This is worldwide, an emergency measure, not a routine U.S. legislation, and the U.S. may have been dissolved into something else at that point.

Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: Rick H] #178304
11/20/15 01:18 PM
11/20/15 01:18 PM
ProdigalOne  Offline
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Alberta, Canada

I haven't studied these particular prophesies in great detail, but what you say sounds right. It would allow the Three Frogs some time to do their work.


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: The 'Time of Trouble', how long? [Re: kland] #178491
11/26/15 01:00 PM
11/26/15 01:00 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Yes, for the most part. But different ordering I see.

Rev 18:4-8:
Come out of her - Plagues can't start until "all" sealed, so there's still time to repent.
Plagues come in one day - Could indicate a year.

Compare 18:9-10 with 16:17-21 - city divided, nations fell. Could be a different fall than in 18:1-2 where Babylon doctrine is presented for what it is.

And I don't see the 7th plague as when Christ comes, but before He comes. What you said, but a qualifier. Ellen White says the remnant left at the end will be told the time He will come, at the Voice of God.

At the 7th plague, the one hours come.

Notice there are two different ones.
Re 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.

Kings are reigning, not falling.

Re 18:10 "standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'

Re 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Re 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

This hour is the falling.

So I see it, bad things happen, kings stray further and pass laws, the plagues come, and all throughout the plagues, things are setting up.
Re 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.


After they pass the death decree to put a final end to God's people, the ones they are blaming for all the plagues. They make merry and give gifts to one another, but before it goes into effect (15 days), God's people are delivered at the 7th plague by the Voice of God, and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. That's when everyone sees the writing of fire in the sky. At that point, the city of Babylon falls. Utter chaos, more than during the plagues, utter hopelessness, for this is when the people attack their pastors for lying to them.

This is brief, but assuming you are familiar with some of the things I mentioned. To me, this fits in line. When you look at the rest of 18, it seems to be talking about the fall of Babylon, at the end of the seven plagues (during the 7th) rather than the seven plagues being of one hour. Plagues of a day contrasted with the "plagues" of the hour.

Some speculate that for the decree to go into effect, there must be legislation which often takes effect in July, so they backtrack and say such-and-such. But I say the kings can pass any laws most any time. This is worldwide, an emergency measure, not a routine U.S. legislation, and the U.S. may have been dissolved into something else at that point.
I think once the plaques come, the Second Coming will be very obvious and the whole world will know it.

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