ProdigalOne said:

"Elle, are you really going to shift the responsibility for you own actions onto the Pastor and board members of the Church you attend? If you cease to meet the definition of a Seventh Day Adventist shouldn't you have the honesty and integrity to resign your membership?"



Elle said:

"I view any Church units as one family of believers. In a family, members don't always agree or believe the same, but it is no reason to ex-communicate anyone. This mentality is quite RCC who doesn't realize that any Church truth & understanding is still not complete."


If you read my words above, you will see that I said: "If YOU cease to meet the definition of a Seventh Day Adventist shouldn't YOU have the honesty and integrity to resign your membership?"

You have no control over the board's decisions; however, you are responsible for your own. No one should have to excommunicate you. If you do not fit the definition of a Seventh Day Adventist, then you should be honest enough to do the right thing and resign your membership.

Did "God" tell you to keep your membership under false pretenses, or did He just tell you to continue attending that church?




I do believe that it is extremely important that the SDA Church agrees on the 28 Fundamental Beliefs. If we don't, then we might as well just join up with the rest of the denominations. The appellation of Seventh Day Adventist will have lost all meaning!

Your comment about the RCC "mentality" is quite ironic, considering it is the Papacy that is working so industriously to make us "one family of believers"!



"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household."

Matthew 10: 34-36

ProdigalOne said:

"If the Church leadership knows of your apostasy and does not remove you from the books, that sin is upon their heads. The false witness you give by pretending to meet the membership requirements is upon yours."


Elle said:

"Interesting definition of sin you have there. I never saw that in the Bible. Isn't it a sin to disobey the Lord or act presumptuously? As I said, He never told me to leave. I have ask. Then just 2 years ago; He shown me via scriptures that He wants me to stay."



It is not my definition of sin Elle, it is God's. By knowingly keeping you on the Church books, the leadership has welcomed apostasy and become an accessory
to it. Since, you no longer meet the Churches' definition of a Seventh Day Adventist, accepting your claim of membership is bearing false witness. Whether their motivation is to pad the congregation numbers or inflate the tithe, they are coveting: since such coveting places something above the will of God; they are also guilty of having other gods before Him.

Sounds like sin to me; maybe you should read your Bible again. This time with the eyes of a child, who accepts the simplicity of God's words without sophistry.

ProdigalOne said:

"As for your claim that 50% of the attending members do not accept the 28 Fundamental Beliefs, it is quite possible that you are correct. This situation will be rectified shortly when the Shaking occurs."


Elle said:

"Do you think it will be mostly the leaders that will be shakened out? Don't know but I have heard so many stories(that I'm not really interested but many does like to put an emphasis on the sins of the Leadership. I rather focuss on all the good things the Lord is doing.) Nevertheless, the story below did make me think that perhaps many leaders have the mark of the beast(money)on their hands and forehead."


I was merely responding to your claim that "50% of the attending members do not accept the 28 Fundamental Beliefs". No, I do not "think it will be mostly the leaders that will be shakened out".

It is obvious by the responses here that the division over the importance of the Spirit of prophecy is the main dividing point among Seventh Day Adventist believers. But our church has always supported not only the writings of Mrs White but every individual who were approved in the Spirit, like the visions of William Miller, Hiram Edson and the prophetic interpretation of Josiah Litch. But there is a major drive by those who want to tear the church down in making of no effect the Spirit of Prophecy. That is a shame, because the Spirit says those who are responsible will never make it to the kingdom because their souls will be unprepared. For those who love the Spirit of Prophecy, our Jesus supports you.

I agree James. The tragic part is that unbelief in the Spirit of Prophesy prevents those who need it most from allowing the straight testimony to have it's effect upon their hearts.

"I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God’s people." – {CET 176.1}

I was just reflecting on our current belief of the coming "shaking". I personally see in scriptures that the Lord follow the same ways He has shown to us in the past. In another word, types and history repeats.

Actually we saw 2 shakings in the Past. Both resulted in destroying the physical Temple(can represents their Church they had put their faith into) and most people didn't make it.

We know from these past shakings, their (Church & Leaders' teachings) interpretation and understanding of the laws and other scriptures were found very lacking. They had the correct law and other inspired books; despite, the leaders and the people that followed their directions were shaking out.

For some reason, we believe the next shaking will be opposite. That the SDA Church and its teachings will remain and the rebellious people that doesn't follow the Church interpretation and beliefs will be shaking out of the Church. We are putting as much trust in our Church beliefs as much as the Jews put their trust in theirs.

Another thing that is amazingly contradictory of our pre-conceived ideas, is we also recognize that we are the Laodicean Church???? So how can the Church be "blind and naked" and yet know the truth all at the same time???

I do believe we are Laodicean and not only the SDAs but all other denominations of todays. We are as blind as the Jews were before their great shaking.

Going by with what happened in the past, my understanding is there will be a remnant that will comes out of the Laodicean Church. The Laodicean Church is the last Church before Jesus 2nd coming. The Laodicean Church itself will not make the shaking and will be destroyed(its teachings and erronous doctrines) and only a remnant of the people will come out of her and make the body of Christ. That remnant will be the overcomers aka the Saints of the Most High.

Exactly. God bless you again.

Sister Elle; The reason it will be a shaking out of those who do not follow the Spirit of Prophecy is because of the pressure of the world against those who are following the Spirit of Prophecy, the straight testimony brings serious persecution against anyone claiming our beliefs in the days ahead. And in the process the halfhearted will be the ones who turn on the remnant more ferociously than even the world because they fold under the external pressures, and the remnant will never dismiss their faith in the SDA message. Those who have already laid aside certain portions of the testimonies will be shaken out and have to forsake their claim to the title of SDA. ESPECIALLY when the Sunday law issue comes. This will be the ultimate dividing of the sheep and the goats. But the events leading to the Sunday law are already unfolding, and here is where our faith is tested to prepare us for the Latter Rain.

Using the Spirit of Prophecy I would like to draw a picture for you to imagine. The very first vision Mrs White received was about the path to the heavenly city. This path was high and lifted up with the light of the Midnight Cry at the entrance to the path. She was shown the 144,000 on this path heading to the heavenly city. So in order to be one of the 144,000 you must believe in the message of the Midnight Cry. This begins the path. But how many pastors do you hear teaching about the midnight Cry? It's a point of contention. They are ashamed that we as Seventh Day Adventists claimed that Jesus would come in 1844 so they discard the Midnight Cry. This excludes them from being prepared because they are not on that path.

Here is the first Vision the Lord's Servant received.



The Spirit of Prophecy and the Great disappointment/ Midnight Cry, is almost as much a part of the path of the 144,000 as scripture according to what God has shown me. So with this mindset if you don't believe that the Great Disappointment was ordained by God you are not on the correct path to the Heavenly city. But how many discard that message?

As an example, I am claiming that God showed me the Spirit of Prophecy. He took me out of my past life and led me directly to this church and I will never claim otherwise. I have never seen anyone as persecuted inside the church as I have been. I have been beaten and attacked and maligned and hated from the moment God had me call the SDA church that first day after telling me to call them. The seventh day of my fast God showed me Matthew 12:8 "Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath" and light circled those words and filled my mind connecting thoughts and I heard the Still Small voice say "this will lead you home to me". I called the local SDA church like He told me to and the president of the Alaska conference (Jim Stevens) came over to my home to hear my testimony with the local pastor and he has persecuted me ever since. WHY? Because I claimed God led me there. My testimony brings major persecution against me, but does that mean I should leave the church? NO WAY. They can leave, I will never.

As a side note, the running of Brother Ben Carson for president has done more to bring us into the spot light than at any other time other than when AT Jones defended our position of the Sabbath in congress. The fact that Mr Carson dismisses the council given, to NOT be involved in politics shows his willingness to Kowtow to popular beliefs and dismiss the SOP. This is a very common attribute to 90% of those claiming our faith. They are willing to dismiss the perfect council of the Holy Spirit through the testimonies to get their way, which is rebellion. They will be the remnant worst enemies. I have already seen it myself.

With a belief system like that, I can understand your reluctance to quote Ellen White.

You say that a remnant will come out of the Laodicean Church.
In Revelation 18 God's people are told to come out of Babylon,
is it your opinion that the Seventh Day Adventist Church is part of Babylon?

No I don't believe the SDA or any other denomination is Babylon or part of Babylon -- rather they are in captivity to Babylon and have been heavily shaped by their teachings.

Basically the last symbolic Church in history(=Laodicean Church) is in captivity to Mystery Babylon like the tribe of Judah was in captivity to Old Babylon before they were set free. Only a remnant**(see number below) came out of Babylon and went to Jerusalem(=New Jerusalem). Most didn't go out --they stayed where they were.

The same as in the time of Jesus, most stayed -- only a remnant followed the "fanatic teachings" of Jesus and came out of the narrowed blinded minded carnal teachings of the Jews.

**
----Ezra 2:64 says the number was 42,630
----it is interesting that only 74 were Levites(Ezra 2:40) were in that count
----it seems those that were priest were not numbered and considered polluted (Ezra 3:61-63)

Those members of the tribe of Judah who refused to leave Babylon remained as permanent citizens. Thus, they became part of Babylon.

By the same logic, if the majority of the SDA denomination refuses to separate from Babylon wouldn't they become part of it? Then wouldn't the call to "come out of her my people" be a call to leave the SDA denomination?