I believe that Christ suffered with a flesh that was after the flesh of Abraham. But, Christ never sinned and became carnal as we are. Christ never lost His moral purity.

Perhaps I am not understanding the terms being used. What is the definition of a carnal nature?
Are human beings born with a carnal nature, or is it something we acquire by succumbing to temptations of what dedication calls our natural human nature?

Carnal nature--
The carnal nature is sin within, enmity against God's law.


Yes, when we are born our natural nature is equipped with the carnal nature -- complete with it's enmity against authority.

You don't have to teach a toddler how to have a temper tantrum, or how to be selfish with everything he thinks is his, or how to constantly push at restraints. They seem to do this all on their own even before they have reached an age of reasoning, it doesn't require any teaching for them to do these things. Children who are not shown and /or taught acceptable social behavior will not develop it.

People are born with a carnal nature -- though with different levels of the carnal nature. We see this from science as well as from EGW's writings. In Child Guidance page 44 EGW warns parents that their uncontrolled propensities are passed on to their unborn children,

"Children are born with the animal propensities largely developed, the parents' own stamp of character having been given to them" CG 44

Fortunate are the children who have godly parents:

"Oh, if mothers would only work with wisdom, with calmness and determination, to train and subdue the carnal tempers of their children, what an amount of sin would be nipped in the bud, and what a host of church trials would be saved! {CG 176.2}

If Christ had not redeemed the human race, no one, not even a new born baby that dies the day he is born would enter heaven.
But because Christ took that guilt, all who flee to Him may escape the penalty of transgression. And to those believing parents, the little ones who died in infancy will be brought by angels and placed into their arms.


1 Cor. 15:21-22
For since by man came death,
by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Romans 5:17-19
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one;
much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the
gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

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Good question. I wasn't as clear as I thought.

I was trying to distinguish between the flesh and the moral integrity of Christ. His flesh was in the fallen state, but the Moral integrity of Christ was pure. Christ never sinned or succumbed to any temptation.

One wonders, if Christ did not have a temper tantrum, how was He able to overcome that temptation before the age of reasoning?

(bold emphasis mine)

Excellent question I think. What do you think?

Those who doctrinally bring Christ down to their level wonder at such things and are at a lost to answer.

But Christ did not have a HUMAN FATHER. He was from above as we are from below. His character was pure and holy from birth, unlike our own. It was His to lose heaven to the same extent the other way around: that is, just as it is for us to gain salvation. Christ was superhuman: the literal Son of God. It is something to which we can only aspire in faith. He said so Himself: "without Me, you can do nothing!" (John 15:5)

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Christ was sinless. He had a perfectly sinless character right from birth. To say otherwise is to deny the spotless Lamb of God.

Just because He took on "the likeness of sinful flesh" -- that is He took on a real physical human body,-- does not mean He was sinful -- there was no sin in Him.

People have a hard time accepting Christ's dual nature.
He took on "the likeness of sinful flesh" (He could have sinned) but he had a sinless nature (not even in thought or desire did Christ ever sin).

There were no temper tantrums --
What is the cause of temper tantrums?
Isn't it an emotional demonstration to get one's own will?

Satan's temptations for Christ were all geared to getting Christ off track from doing the will of the Father. They were all geared to get Christ to give up the Divine plan for saving humanity, or to devise a simpler plan, or to rise above His humanity and use His Divinity.

== use your Divine power to feed yourself
No -- the Divine plan stipulated that Christ would NOT use His Divine power, but would rely on God the Father. Humans can't turn stones into bread.

== jump of the temple pinnacle and astonish the temple worshippers with this great feat of "flying" unscathed in front of them.
No -- that's not according to the plan on how to win the favor of the multitudes.

== bow down to satan and you won't have to go to the cross, you can be king over everything a much easier way.
No -- that is definitely not according to the plan!!!!

== Gethsemane, forget the whole thing, these people don't want what you are offering them, they hate you, they are going to mistreat you terribly, even your so called disciples will run and desert you, even betray you. It's not worth it -- forget it. Go back to heaven where you came from, and forget this whole thing.
No -- that's not the divine plan, even though it's going to be terrible to suffer the guilt of the world and the separation from my Father, as well as the tortures of the body -- I must go through with it, it is the only way salvation will come to humanity.

== Come down from the cross, you save others but can't even save yourself?
No -- if I save myself I go against the Divine plan, and thus would not save any others.

Do you see -- every temptation was an appeal to Christ to use His Divinity to go against the Divine plan and agreement which Christ had made with God the Father.

Here are a few quotes to show this:




Not my will, but thine be done.

That's where the battle against sin is centered --
Following Christ in obedience, or doing our own thing.

That is not true.

Jesus did not say, "My Father is the resurrection and the life." Rather, it is well documented that he said instead that He was and is, "I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in ME will live, even though he dies." (John 11:25) He was fully Divine in word and deed on earth.

No one takes as Saviour someone who is weak as himself, but someone who is superior in strength that is more than enough to overcome the enemy. This is important to understand lest it enter into your head that you can be Christ, the image and likeness of perfection. Isaiah says, "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; and all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away." (Isaiah 64:6) Even Paul cries out in hope, "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!" (Rom. 7:24-25)

For these and other reasons, it is said, "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9) In Christ alone, who conquered through His own strength, upon Him we lean, to Him we run like chickens to their mother hen. (Mat. 23:37)

What do you think? Does the hen cry out and say to her chicks, "I am weak like you!" Does she drop her wings and faint, she whose muscles and sinews are the definition of determination and power? Christ was certainly not like Samson upon whom the Spirit descended and left. He was THE Spirit of the Living God, fully Divine and acting so: always! For which reason the Devil could not stand before Him. (Mat. 8:28-29)

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