Elle said:

"As we all know, we are not at liberty to come up with a private interpretation; thus all interpretation must come from the Holy Spirit. And we all(not only prophets, but all believers) need to develop an ear to hear Him. Not an easy task at all."

You have posted about this before, Elle. I wonder if you would elaborate on how we are to obtain biblical interpretation directly from the Holy Spirit? Also, how do we "develop an ear to hear Him"?

The Lord has given us in the food laws how to distinguish and avoid unclean [spiritual] foods from clean [foods]. I have briefly explained these laws in lower half of Post#178708. If you want me to expand on anything you read, let me know.

Speculative, but interesting theory of food laws pertaining to interpretation.

If the cloven hoof represents a double confirmation of an interpretation by the Holy Spirit, how does this manifest? How does one know the Holy Spirit is confirming an interpretation?

Do you have another interpretation for this law? I would be interested to consider it.


After asking the Lord in prayer for confirmation, we need to keep our ears & eyes & mind open for the Lord to reply to your prayer. The confirmation (=double witness) can be manifested in all kinds of different ways. It is important that you let the confirmation to be 100% initiated and produced by the Lord only. Since He is behind coordinating the unexpecting events in your daily life, He will bring something to your attention. It can be in the form of a newspaper headline, or a bulletin board that has a message, a person sharing something about the subject, the Lord brings the question in your own life and you live it, a dream, a vision, a small still voice that you heard, an strong clear audible voice, a leading to a particular study or scripture, .... or any event via anything that happens that relates to the question and speaks to you.

Whatever form the confirmation comes in, it has to highly relate to your inquiry and prayer where there's no doubt in your mind that it is the Lord speaking to you.


I did answer this above. It needs to be initiated by the Lord and it has to relate to your question where you know(or potentially) is the Lord's answering to your prayer request of a confirmation.

I say potentially because I know for I have been seeking confirmation(double witness) from the Lord for over 5 years. And many times I've received something and I'm still not sure. It is not easy for many of us cannot differentiate the small still voice of the Lord apart from our own. Then we all can all be deluded in mis-understanding or mis-interpretating the double witness received as our heart idols (pre-conceived ideas) are very strong and are the main contributor to distort the voice of the Holy Spirit(Ezk 14:4).

However no matter how difficult it is for some (like me), this is the walk the Lord wants us to enter when we go thru that 2nd veil into the holy place Pentecost level of faith. That's where we need to learn to HEAR (shama) the voice of the Lord and to obey His voice.

Those that enter that 2nd veil are those that Jesus said of them "[color:#330099my sheep hear my voice...and they follow me[/color]" Jhn 10:27

Without hearing Him and receiving His teachings (1Jn 2:27) you are only one of those sheep that are lost.

So if Green says the Holy Spirit showed him that God murders people but that doesn't mean He's a murderer, would you believe him? How is that different from an individual private interpretation?

Simply answered - No

1. I won't take anything from anyone as being the pure truth without FIRST chewing on it (meditating) and having a double witness (confirmation by the Holy Spirit). That includes anything I ponder in scriptures. ALL things needs to be tested even if that person is a proven leader (like Paul via the Bereans testing all that he said) even if in the past what came out of his mouth was shown correct. The chewing the cud time(=pondering) while studying allows the Holy Spirit to filter out things not from above and gives Him time to confirm or reject what was retain. In contrast, if we take everything said or written face on-- then we remove the necessary work of the Holy Spirit and we end up eating the flesh of men instead of Jesus.

2.If what Green said was something in the realm of possibility, or something that strike me that the Holy Spirit kept his statement in front of me, then I would ponder on it and study that specific matter and let the Holy Spirit do His work. Now while studying I may of perceived the Holy Spirit leading me to reject this part, but to retain this part, and while studying I received another part that Green didn't share... All of this gathering of pieces from the pondering and studying, needs to be confirm. Did I get it right? Was the correct part rejected, retained, and the additional piece all His interpretation? I will need a confirmation of what I think I have heard in some way. While I don't receive a confirmation, then I need to treat this as an assumption or potentially a heart idol that needs to be kept aside whenever I study.

3.BTW what you said above is this the sum of what Green is saying as I have ask him directly and he never answered. I didn't push for an answer since it was really irrelevant to the study of the word "ratsach" and for the study sake, that it was better for me not to know.


Private interpretation is whatever is not a confirmation or revelation from above to YOU PERSONALLY. Even if someone tells you that he receives a confirmation(double witness)...I won't disbelieve him and I know we all have our own heart idols (pre-conceived notions) that can corrupt the message to some degree. He could of received a revelation, but while he expressed it some of his unknown idols gets in the message. Thus if we can discern the individual's idols, then we can filter them out and get the word. The problem is always when the individuals express the dream or vision or the Word heard or interpretation received mixed with their own words and perceived thru their heart idols.

Despite let us assume it was a pure revelation spoken without any heart idols in the way; this food is still UNCLEAN to me and forbidden for me to swallow if I don't take the time to chew on it and receive my own double witness from the Holy Spirit.

Most people do not know about the importance of putting hearts idols aside; nor do they know how the Lord treats us if we don't. We assume that He will correct us by telling us we have this heart idol. That's a big assumption. He basically says in Ezk 14:4 that He will answer us by multiplying our hearts idols. So it's imperative to learn to put all potentially known hearts idols aside for if not, we will be totally blinded by them and deceived. Yes we can be deceived so far that we would swear on the Bible that our answer-interpretation came directly from the Holy Spirit when it reality it came from our hearts idols.

Your method of obtaining a witness or confirmation from the Spirit seems rather ambiguous and extremely subjective. Such a process could easily lead someone astray.

During my early years I attended Penticostal and Charismatic churches.
There were many sincere, people there fervently seeking God's will and looking for signs. Large numbers of these sincere, honest, fruitful people found signs.
Most of them were eventually led by the "Spirit" and his "signs" to depart from the plain, clear, Word of God. All of them absolutely and truely believed they were following the will of the Lord.

I urge you to be extremely cautious of this method of obtaining a "sign".
You are placing yourself in the path of temptation.

If God wishes to communicate directly with you, I am certain He has a clearer way than a vague impression from a newspaper or the offhand comment of an acquaintance. Unless you are Mr. Spock from Star Trek, you have no choice but to interpret such "signs" through the filter of your emotions, even if only at a subconscious level.

Satan is the ultimate master of appealing to our emotions. It is how he deceived every single soul from Eve to Judas. It is how he seeks to deceive you and me.
I have been taken in by the "signs" doctrine myself and witnessed so many precious souls fooled the same way. The really awful and hard to shake part of this deception is that it seems so incredibly 100% right. And with every confirming "sign" it feels more and more right. But when "signs" are used to interpret Scripture, it is a sure recipe for disaster.

Well said, Prodigal.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I disagree, but tell me how does the Lord confirms things to us?


You are misrepresenting what I said. Having a confirmation from the Holy Spirit does not involve SIGNS. I didn't even used the word SIGNS. To me signs is what Gideon did. Gideon said to the Lord what to be seen so to prove to him that it was the Lord speaking. Despite this is not the Lord ways of communication, He still honored that and still provided Gideon the SIGNS Gideon had chosen.

But what I specifically said in terms of receiving confirmation(double witness) from the Lord, it has to be 100% initiated by the Lord not by man. And it can come in multiple forms that has to highly relate to the question that there's no doubt in your mind that it comes from the Lord. If you label dreams, visions, an event that the Lord orchestrated in your life, or etc... to be SIGNS that are 100% initiated by the Lord, then you can call it the way you want. But personally I don't use that term SIGNS so not give confusion as that term is related to something MAN tells God what he should see.

The Lord has always communicated to His people in various ways throughout the Bible. Call it "signs"(your word not mine), but the point here the Lord communicates to His people thru double witnessing.

It simply works this way: First He gives the word to us, then He confirms(double witness) His word to us. If no confirmation is received, then the Word did not come from Him. It was our imagination or emotion (Mr. Spock).


Wow, you are trying very hard to find any fault.

OK an example. Let us say, the Lord brought you to study about Victim's Right to forgive. And then the Lord brought you to wonder if this applies to all Laws given to Moses. Meaning the victim of being stoned, or being stolen, or being murdered.... has the right to forgive the sin of their offender. Then the next day you pass by you read in the newspaper: Woman forgives Murderer of her husband. That's not subjective to your emotion, or subconscious level or in the zone of Mr.Spock -- NO.

The odds that this event to produced this specific headline in the Newspaper, and the odd for you to read that paper and see this headline, and the odd for you to read it in a TIME that is just after you have wondered about this ---- this is what I'm talking about. This is not subjective to your emotion or whatever. This is subjective to the Lord's SOVEREIGNTY to coordinate all of this, so to speak to you at that particular TIME. This is a non questionable Second Witness given to YOU personally. This is what I'm talking about.


I'm glad you are an expert in how Satan works.

But the point at hand is not about Satan communication skills, it's about the Lord and how He communicates to us so that we do not have a PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of His Word. I do assume that you know more about the Lord's ways than Satan's ways. Right. Maybe, you gave us Satan's ways to prep us for what you know about the Lord's ways. Good! Looking forward to read it.

So please let us know how the Lord can communicate to us what is the Holy Spirit interpretation? My ears are all open.

Elle said:
"I disagree, but tell me how does the Lord confirms things to us?"


"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts.
For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:"
Isaiah 28:9-10

Personally, I believe "confirmation" of biblical interpretation is best obtained through prayerful study of His revealed Word. For example, upon first hearing the seventh day Sabbath teaching, the proper course would be to prayerfully examine every use of the word Sabbath in the Bible. Thirty-four years ago, my brother-in-law and I did this together and both accepted the validity of God's fourth Commandment.

Unfortunately, he subsequently returned to his Charismatic church and was led to reject obedience to God's Law, being convinced that this was salvation by works. A perfect example of your double confirmation method:

"It can be in the form of a newspaper headline, or a bulletin board that has a message, a person sharing something about the subject, the Lord brings the question in your own life and you live it, a dream, a vision, a small still voice that you heard, an strong clear audible voice, a leading to a particular study or scripture, .... or any event via anything that happens that relates to the question and speaks to you."

My brother-in-law read Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:", and
Ephesians 2:15
"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances..."

He received "confirmation" or a "second witness" from his Charismatic pastor,
("a person sharing something about the subject"); yet another "witness" from ("a vision"); yet another "witness" from ("a small still voice that you (he)heard"); yet another "witness" from ("an strong clear audible voice"); yet another "confirmation" from ("a leading to a particular study or scripture")!

What was the result of following this method of interpretation? A fine, godly, young man deceiving and being deceived (shortly after this, he told me of his intention to enter the Charismatic ministry).


By the way, how exactly does using the word "sign" misrepresent what you said?
Elle, calling a random newspaper headline, or some random words from an acquaintance a "sign", may be my word; however, insisting that it is a "confirmation" or a "double witness" is just playing word games. It is the intended meaning that matters.

Playing with word definitions seems to be a favorite diversionary tactic for you.
Right out of the Jesuit handbook! Good luck with that.



Elle said:
"I'm glad you are an expert in how Satan works."


Peter and John, also knew the methods of the Enemy.
It seems that I am in good company.

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"
1Peter 5:8

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
Revelation 12: 10-12