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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180426
04/30/16 03:23 AM
04/30/16 03:23 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
The significance of the sun scorching heat in the fourth plague is because of the issue of Sunday observance as I have posted in my study last time.
Now I am thinking why the seat of the beast must be plagued as the fifth plague has described. The Rev. 17 and 18 enlarge further about the beast and his kingdom after the beast was introduced in the chapter 13.
Rev. 17:6 says, "drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" by the kingdom of Babylon.
In the fifth seal, martyrs of Jesus cry out, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Rev. 6:10). The beast—"that dwell on the earth"—continues to kill the servants of God, must be even now—if not obviously, then undercover—, because Rev. 6:11 says, "white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
The beast seems that he is never afraid to kill the saints and prophets of God as in the past of the church history. Angels have said in Rev. 16:5-6, "Thou art righteous, O Lord, ... because thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets."
The fifth church of Sardis is denoted the reformation church during christian era that is from the Papacy. Many reformers were martyred by the beast power at the time. Undoubtedly the Book of Revelation tells us the cause of the fifth plague upon the seat of the beast. Rev. 18:6 says, "Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double."
When the fifth plague falls, the beast and his kingdom became darkened just as the fifth trumpet has announced , which parallels as the sun and the air darkened by smoke. Considering that the smoke depicts prayers in Rev. 5:8, the seat of the beast prevented the prayers of saints to rise up to the throne of God where Jesus ministers in the heavenly sanctuary. The fallen star—Dragon—gave the beast "his power, and his seat, and great authority" (Rev. 13:2). As the Dragon's agent, the beast has the key of the bottomless pit—controlling powers of the earth—to cause
the prayers of saints (smoke) not to reach to the throne of God but, instead, caused the sun and the air to darken. This scenario portrays the fifth plague.
At the fifth plague, there is suffering as to "gnawed their tongues for pain" (Rev. 16:10). The fifth trumpet portrays the suffering as "torment" and "men shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them" (Rev. 9:6).

The seat of the beast and his kingdom (Babylon) "is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" (Rev. 14:8).

Rev. 18:7, 8 "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180476
05/05/16 03:49 AM
05/05/16 03:49 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
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Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
If the seat of the beast is plagued, God's people should have no fear to proclaim their iniquities and blasphemous sins. We are told of their wickedness that is unmasked in Rev. 12, 13, and 14 and further described in Rev. 17 and 18.

Lev. 26:8 says, "And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword."

joshua 23:10 also says, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you as he hath promised you."

Divine power is available to God's people for the final loud cry. If God's people unite their hearts to blast the warning of the beast's blasphemous works and fornication, God will fight for His people. There is a power in unity by God's people.

Isa. 60:22 says, "A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time."

"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet" Isa. 58:1

"Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee" Isa. 60:1,2.

The warning of the fifth trumpet assure God's people that the evil spirit of the locusts cannot harm the sealed of God: Rev. 9:4 says, "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green things, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."
We know that the tree and green grass depict mankind. The locusts is able to distinguish between the sealed of God and unsealed, which indicate that they are the evil spirits of devil. The devil delights destroying even his followers. Notice their shapes like unto horses prepared unto battle. They are ready to war with anyone without the seal of God. And they conquer the unprepared souls, which is depicted by wearing crowns like gold. They are deceptive as men. Their faces were as the faces of men. They have hair as the women which indicate seductiveness of their evil. When they bite, they bite like lions and will never let go. Their hearts are cold as the breastplates of iron. And they move fast as chariots with wings. They have power to hurt men until the four angels lose their hold of the wind of the four corners of the earth.

When God commanded the "locusts" not to harm the sealed of God, it must mean until the completion of the sealing. I believe that the time is short. It is evidenced by the seat of the beast and his kingdom which have full of darkness currently.

The fifth trumpet is plainly described for the fifth plague. And the shadow of the fifth plague is already contemporary with us just as the fourth plague.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Daryl] #180479
05/05/16 11:40 PM
05/05/16 11:40 PM
C
Charity  Offline
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Hello Daryl: Say, can you post a link to Jay's presentation on the trumpets. Thanks a lot.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180526
05/10/16 03:16 AM
05/10/16 03:16 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
The fifth plague.....The fifth seal.....The fifth church.....The fifth trumpet
seat of the beast...martyrs..............church of Sardis....Bottomless pit
Papacy...............Papacy...............church of reformer...Papacy

The fifth plague poured upon the seat of the beast. We know that the beast is Papacy who have killed many saints—martyrs— in the past. Many reformers have come out of the Papacy during the church period of Sardis. The identity of the fallen star—Satan—has given power to Papacy who caused "smoke" to come out of the bottomless pit.

The seat of the beast and his kingdom became darken in the fifth plague. This parallels with the fifth trumpet, which the "smoke" caused the sun and air to darken. The smoke depicts prayers of saints, which must be ascended to the throne of God. The significance of the sun and air that was darkened by the smoke means the Papacy has stolen the prayers of people. The prayers have not reached the throne of God mixed with sweet incense of Jesus. Thus the sun and air have become darkened.

The key of the bottomless pit is given to the Papacy which signifies that he has some control upon the earth—bottomless pit.

The fifth trumpet is more clamorous than the fifth plague because its announcement has to go out noisily than the plague in hope of less numbers of unrepentant sinners.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180582
05/18/16 01:41 AM
05/18/16 01:41 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
The beast of the Revelation represents the Papacy. Rev. 13:4 says, "Who is like unto the beast (the Papacy)? who is able to make war with him (the Papacy)?" Really? who is saying this?

The dragon is saying this as he worships the beast! Please read it again what Rev. 13:4 is saying: "And they (the beast or Papacy) worshipped the dragon (Satan) which gave power unto the beast: and they (the dragon) worshipped the beast (the Papacy), saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

The Papacy (the beast) and the dragon are so closely united: they worship each other. This tells me that the "fallen star" denotes the beast (the Papacy) in the fifth trumpet. The Papacy snatches prayers of people which caused the sun and the air darken. Thus the spiritual darkness is announced as a consequence.

The fifth plague is poured upon the seat of the beast—the Papacy kingdom. Rev. 16:10 says, "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain"

How clearly correspond to the fifth plague in the announcement of the fifth trumpet! Do we perceive the darkness in the kingdom of the beast at the present time? Are they not repenting even though they bite their tongues for pain? Rev. 16:11 says, "And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds." They do not repent!

The fifth trumpet announced that "in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them" (Rev. 9:6). Even in the pain of death, the seat of the beast blasphemes God and do not repent.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180588
05/21/16 06:11 AM
05/21/16 06:11 AM
ProdigalOne  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,166
Alberta, Canada
I believe it is the population of the world that is shown worshipping the dragon and the beast in Revelation 13.

Notice that the final sentence of verse 3 says: "all the world wondered after the beast." Of course the verse numbering has been added by man; therefore, the end of verse 3 and the beginning of verse 4 are not divided in any way.

Thus a more accurate reading would be:"... and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon".


3 "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

I see no indication that the dragon and beast are worshipping each other.


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: ProdigalOne] #180593
05/22/16 02:27 AM
05/22/16 02:27 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
Thanks for your comment. That's how I read all these years and supposed that was correct understanding. I even reread a few more times trying to look at your viewpoint. However, the subject in verse 3 is the beast (Papacy) as well as verse 4 and 5. I even reread in my native language which is more clearly written that the subject is the beast.

verse 3: "And I saw one of his heads (the Papacy) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

verse 4: "And they (the Papacy) worshipped the dragon (Satan) which gave power unto the beast(the Papacy): and they (dragon) worshipped the beast (the Papacy), saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

verse 5: "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and continue forty and two months"

All three verses have not changed their subject as the beast (the Papacy) and secondary subject is the dragon (Satan). The verse 4 imageries are the two parties complementing each other. "all the world wondered after the beast" is not the subject in the verse 4. This is more confirmed from verse 5, which said, "there was given unto him (the Papacy) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;" If the "all the world" is subject, verse 5 does not make sense because they received "a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies" from the dragon (Satan).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180601
05/24/16 10:17 AM
05/24/16 10:17 AM
ProdigalOne  Online Content
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,166
Alberta, Canada
Sorry Karen, I have to disagree with you.

"And I saw one of his heads...". The subject here is clearly "I" (John).
The subject performs the action, or verb. "I (subject) saw (verb) one of his heads..."


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: ProdigalOne] #180646
05/27/16 07:07 AM
05/27/16 07:07 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
Who gave power to the beast? Rev. 13:5 says, "power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." Also 13:2 says, "the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." It is the dragon!

Rev. 13:4 says, "they worshipped the dragon WHICH GAVE POWER UNTO THE BEAST" (upper cases added by me). It is not the world—"all the world wondered after the beast" (verse 3)—worshipped the dragon because they did not give power to the beast.
Rev. 13:4 says, "And they (the Papacy—the beast) worshipped the dragon (Satan) which gave power unto the beast(the Papacy): and they (dragon) worshipped the beast (the Papacy), saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Charity] #180765
06/12/16 11:02 PM
06/12/16 11:02 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Hello Daryl: Say, can you post a link to Jay's presentation on the trumpets. Thanks a lot.

Just discovered this now and will see what I can do.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

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