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Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: APL] #181183
07/28/16 01:37 PM
07/28/16 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: kland
Most excellent post!
But how does he think those that reject God die? By "given the death penalty", which means what? Execution? hm...
Ooops, didn't see where he contradicted himself. I meant the first part: Love me or I torch you.

Looking at it again, I'm not sure I understand it. He builds it up and then like shoots himself in the foot. As in, It can't be true love to love a God like that so that's why He sets you on fire. But it does match previous contradictions: Just because God destroys does not make Him a destroyer.

Last edited by kland; 07/28/16 01:45 PM.
Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Alchemy] #181184
07/28/16 01:41 PM
07/28/16 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: kland
Most excellent post!
But how does he think those that reject God die? By "given the death penalty", which means what? Execution? hm...


God, in His infinite wisdom and justice will determine the lost to be deserving of death and execute them in the "Lake of Fire".
So, skipping over Green's self-contradiction, would you, could you, love a God who says "you must love me and marry me or else"? Would you, could you, "actually love a forceful God like this"? "Would your heart really be in it? Would you not really be simply giving in to my demands out of fear?"

Last edited by kland; 07/28/16 01:50 PM.
Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: kland] #181188
07/29/16 05:15 AM
07/29/16 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: kland
Most excellent post!
But how does he think those that reject God die? By "given the death penalty", which means what? Execution? hm...


God, in His infinite wisdom and justice will determine the lost to be deserving of death and execute them in the "Lake of Fire".
So, skipping over Green's self-contradiction, would you, could you, love a God who says "you must love me and marry me or else"? Would you, could you, "actually love a forceful God like this"? "Would your heart really be in it? Would you not really be simply giving in to my demands out of fear?"


Are you talking about Green or me?

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #181193
07/29/16 03:13 PM
07/29/16 03:13 PM
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Green said one thing (except for the contradiction) which you seemed to object. Do you agree or disagree with the above quotes from Green?

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #181285
08/14/16 03:55 PM
08/14/16 03:55 PM
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As this side-discussion seems to have died out, pardon the pun, where are we at with my question on whether or not the Bible teaches that everybody will be saved, or that only some of the everybody will be saved?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #181300
08/16/16 10:24 PM
08/16/16 10:24 PM
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When people put different meanings to clear terms as in saying that
-- death does not mean the end of life
that to perish does not mean the end of life
that destruction does not mean the end of life
etc ---

how can anyone ever convince such a one that indeed
death IS the end of life
to perish really does mean to cease to exist
to be destroyed really does mean to cease to exist and
that the dead know not anything all their thoughts are perished.

There is no meeting place when terms no longer mean what they say, every argument is spiritualized away.

If all are saved -- why worry about anything? Why the urgency in scripture that TODAY is the day of salvation? With spiritualizing away of the second death, the Bible doesn't even make sense anymore since it's full of warnings of coming destruction for those who cling to sin. "Today" ceases to be the day of salvation as supposedly salvation is assured to everyone, some just take a little longer to comply-- even if it's a couple thousand years in the future.


It is very popular in the religious world to spiritualize the second death. Very few still believe the second death is actually being DEAD (ceasing to exist) for eternity.
The old lie of Satan is still very popular in many variations -- you will not really die.


Personally I do not believe we should be engaged in these discussions.

Quote:
A Deadly Error.--Satanic agencies are clothing false theories in an attractive garb, even as Satan in the Garden of Eden concealed his identity from our first parents by speaking through the serpent. These agencies are instilling into human minds that which in reality is deadly error. The hypnotic influence of Satan will rest upon those who turn from the plain word of God to pleasing fables.--8T 294 (1904). {2MCP 718.1}
Danger in Investigating.--We have reached the perils of the last days, when some, yes, many, "shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." Be cautious in regard to what you read and how you hear. Take not a particle of interest in Spiritualistic theories. Satan is waiting to steal a march upon everyone who allows himself to be deceived by his hypnotism. He begins to exert his power over them just as soon as they begin to investigate his theories.--Lt 123, 1904. (MM 101, 102.) {2MCP 718.2}
Do Not Voice Satan's Theories.--I have been shown that we are not to enter into controversy over these Spiritualistic theories, because such controversy will only confuse minds. These things are not to be brought into our meetings. We are not to labor to refute them. If our ministers and teachers give themselves to study of these erroneous theories, some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. It is not the work of the gospel minister to voice Satan's theories. Go steadily forward, building up the old waste places and restoring the foundations of many generations. Present the truth, sacred, sanctifying truth, and let the seducing theories of the enemy alone. Give him no ground on which to plant the seeds of these theories. I was warned to enter into no controversy over these matters. Let not our ministers or teachers or students give their lips to the repeating of the enemy's sophistry.--Lt 175, 1904.

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Green Cochoa] #181303
08/17/16 02:16 PM
08/17/16 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Elle,

It appears you believe in a God of force who will force everyone to eventually agree with Him. More than this, I suppose everyone must also love Him. You believe He will continue to force these points with everyone until 49,000 years (or more as necessary, I suppose?) have passed.

If I hold a gun to your head and tell you that you must love me and marry me or else...would you love me? Would you marry me? You might marry me, you might say you loved me, but would your heart really be in it? Would you not really be simply giving in to my demands out of fear?

Do you believe in this kind of God? Do you feel it would be better to be forced to live and love Him against your will than to be given the death penalty?

People often choose to die rather than to do certain things in life--should this choice be removed from everyone forever? No one has a choice but to serve the master like slaves? Do you think everyone, Satan included, would actually love a forceful God like this?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


kland. Are these the statements by Green you are asking about?

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #181306
08/18/16 01:58 PM
08/18/16 01:58 PM
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kland  Offline
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yes.

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: kland] #181314
08/21/16 03:54 AM
08/21/16 03:54 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
yes.


Well, I disagree with the premise that God forces people through fear.

When we read Romans 12:1-2, what do we make of such a statement as that?!? Our minds, our ways of thinking and believing, must be conformed to God's way of thinking and believing. And this is a great thing to allow God to perform in us!

But, what if we refuse to let God perform this change in us here on earth? Then God will allow us to live and follow down that path of thinking and believing to our own destruction.

Yet, God reserves the right to use us any way He sees fit regardless of what we decide on Romans 12:1-2. God is the creator and is the only God in existence and He will do with His creation as He sees fit. Amen?!?

Re: Does the Bible Teach that Everybody Is Saved, or that Some Are Saved? [Re: Daryl] #181342
08/26/16 04:22 PM
08/26/16 04:22 PM
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kland  Offline
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Revelation 21:
Verse 2) Satan is bound 1000 years
4) Souls who were beheaded, who had not worshiped the beast, and had not received his mark, lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years,
5) while the rest of the dead did not live until after 1000 years
6) Second death has no power over these.
7,8) Satan released after the 1000 years and gather nations together
9) Fire devoured them

12) More than 1 book was opened plus the book of Life. Dead judged by the books.
14) Second death.
15) If not found in the book of Life, cast into lake of fire.


Now I'm not sure how one goes about spinning how death means life, but there's a few things in Rev 21 which they need to address. For example, here's a few:
  • Not being found in the book of Life means you still live?
  • There's a first death and a second death and they are still alive? What would be the intention of the author in saying first and second death?
  • If satan is cast into the lake of fire just as the lost are, does that mean satan still lives, too?

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