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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: Alchemy]
#181384
09/08/16 09:28 PM
09/08/16 09:28 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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Or the same question in a different way, Why do the plagues happen?
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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: APL]
#181386
09/09/16 08:29 AM
09/09/16 08:29 AM
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OP
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Posts: 2,264
Asia
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Alchemy wrote;
"In answer to your question, Ellen White has other statements to the point that the seven last plagues are going to be as bad if not worse than we may think. God had to perform a special miracle on Sister White for her to simply watch them. They are truly going to be horrific."
APL wrote;
"WHO causes the last plagues is on point of your thread alchemy. If you can't answer that question, then you cannot understand the plagues. That are only two choices of who causes the horror of the last plagues: [1]God, or [2]The devil." (bold emphasis mine)
I did answer your question APL. What point did you miss?
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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: kland]
#181387
09/09/16 08:30 AM
09/09/16 08:30 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2018
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Posts: 2,264
Asia
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Or the same question in a different way, Why do the plagues happen? Good question. What does Sister White say?
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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: Alchemy]
#181388
09/09/16 08:39 AM
09/09/16 08:39 AM
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OP
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At the commencement of the holy Sabbath, January 5, 1849, we engaged in prayer with Brother Belden’s family at Rocky Hill, Connecticut, and the Holy Ghost fell upon us. I was taken off in vision to the most holy place, where I saw Jesus still interceding for Israel. On the bottom of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate. Then I saw that Jesus would not leave the most holy place until every case was decided either for salvation or destruction, and that the wrath of God could not come until Jesus had finished His work in the most holy place, laid off His priestly attire, and clothed Himself with the garments of vengeance. Then Jesus will step out from between the Father and man, and God will keep silence no longer, but pour out His wrath on those who have rejected His truth. I saw that the anger of the nations, the wrath of God, and the time to judge the dead were separate and distinct, one following the other, also that Michael had not stood up, and that the time of trouble, such as never was, had not yet commenced. The nations are now getting angry, but when our High Priest has finished His work in the sanctuary, He will stand up, put on the garments of vengeance, and then the seven last plagues will be poured out. {EW 36.1}
I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus’ work was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob’s trouble. Then all the saints cried out with anguish of spirit, and were delivered by the voice of God. The 144,000 triumphed. Their faces were lighted up with the glory of God. Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, “Thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting.” I asked who this company were. The angel said, “These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up.” I heard them cry with a loud voice, “We have believed in Thy coming, and taught it with energy.” And while they were speaking, their eyes would fall upon their garments and see the writing, and then they would wail aloud. I saw that they had drunk of the deep waters, and fouled the residue with their feet—trodden the Sabbath underfoot—and that was why they were weighed in the balance and found wanting. {EW 36.2} (bold emphasis mine)
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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: Alchemy]
#181392
09/09/16 01:49 PM
09/09/16 01:49 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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Good question. What does Sister White say? What DOES EGW say is the WRATH OF GOD? Romans 1 defines it. Christ demonstrated it on the Cross. The wrath of God fell upon Christ. This was the hiding of the Father's countenance. ... When the sense of the loss of His Father's favor was withdrawn, Christ had drained the last dregs in the cup of bitterness. {ST, April 14, 1898 par. 9} When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. {GC 614.1}
When God's presence was finally withdrawn from the Jewish nation, priests and people knew it not. Though under the control of Satan, and swayed by the most horrible and malignant passions, they still regarded themselves as the chosen of God. The ministration in the temple continued; sacrifices were offered upon its polluted altars, and daily the divine blessing was invoked upon a people guilty of the blood of God's dear Son and seeking to slay His ministers and apostles. So when the irrevocable decision of the sanctuary has been pronounced and the destiny of the world has been forever fixed, the inhabitants of the earth will know it not. The forms of religion will be continued by a people from whom the Spirit of God has been finally withdrawn; and the satanic zeal with which the prince of evil will inspire them for the accomplishment of his malignant designs, will bear the semblance of zeal for God. {GC 615.1}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: Alchemy]
#181393
09/09/16 02:31 PM
09/09/16 02:31 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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I saw that the slave master [see Appendix.] will have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take to heaven the slave who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master’s lash, and holding a lower position than the brutes. But He does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He permits him to be as if he had not been, while the master must endure the seven last plagues and then come up in the second resurrection and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the justice of God will be satisfied. {EW 276.1} (bold emphasis mine)
I find it interesting that God will have a special resurrection for slave masters to suffer the seven last plagues. That quote does not necessarily mean there is a resurrection for the slave holders of the 18th and 19th centuries. It could very well refer to slave masters who are living on earth at the time Jesus comes. Mrs. White does not speak of a special resurrection for them, at least not here. Do you have a statement where she does? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: APL]
#181407
09/11/16 08:23 AM
09/11/16 08:23 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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Good question. What does Sister White say? What DOES EGW say is the WRATH OF GOD? Romans 1 defines it. Christ demonstrated it on the Cross. The wrath of God fell upon Christ. This was the hiding of the Father's countenance. ... When the sense of the loss of His Father's favor was withdrawn, Christ had drained the last dregs in the cup of bitterness. {ST, April 14, 1898 par. 9} When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. {GC 614.1}
When God's presence was finally withdrawn from the Jewish nation, priests and people knew it not. Though under the control of Satan, and swayed by the most horrible and malignant passions, they still regarded themselves as the chosen of God. The ministration in the temple continued; sacrifices were offered upon its polluted altars, and daily the divine blessing was invoked upon a people guilty of the blood of God's dear Son and seeking to slay His ministers and apostles. So when the irrevocable decision of the sanctuary has been pronounced and the destiny of the world has been forever fixed, the inhabitants of the earth will know it not. The forms of religion will be continued by a people from whom the Spirit of God has been finally withdrawn; and the satanic zeal with which the prince of evil will inspire them for the accomplishment of his malignant designs, will bear the semblance of zeal for God. {GC 615.1} Are you sure there isn't more said about this point? Christ did suffer at the hands of evil angels and evil humans, all of which were created by Christ! Is this all that is said about the wrath of God?
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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#181408
09/11/16 08:24 AM
09/11/16 08:24 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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I saw that the slave master [see Appendix.] will have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take to heaven the slave who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master’s lash, and holding a lower position than the brutes. But He does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He permits him to be as if he had not been, while the master must endure the seven last plagues and then come up in the second resurrection and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the justice of God will be satisfied. {EW 276.1} (bold emphasis mine)
I find it interesting that God will have a special resurrection for slave masters to suffer the seven last plagues. That quote does not necessarily mean there is a resurrection for the slave holders of the 18th and 19th centuries. It could very well refer to slave masters who are living on earth at the time Jesus comes. Mrs. White does not speak of a special resurrection for them, at least not here. Do you have a statement where she does? Blessings, Green Cochoa. How do you know she doesn't mean slave masters from all time in this statement? And if so, it would mean a special resurrection.
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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: Alchemy]
#181409
09/11/16 04:51 PM
09/11/16 04:51 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Are you sure there isn't more said about this point? Christ did suffer at the hands of evil angels and evil humans, all of which were created by Christ! Is this all that is said about the wrath of God? You have more, bring it on!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Ellen G. White on the Seven Last Plagues:
[Re: Alchemy]
#181418
09/12/16 08:36 PM
09/12/16 08:36 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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I saw that the slave master [see Appendix.] will have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take to heaven the slave who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master’s lash, and holding a lower position than the brutes. But He does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He permits him to be as if he had not been, while the master must endure the seven last plagues and then come up in the second resurrection and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the justice of God will be satisfied. {EW 276.1} (bold emphasis mine)
I find it interesting that God will have a special resurrection for slave masters to suffer the seven last plagues. That quote does not necessarily mean there is a resurrection for the slave holders of the 18th and 19th centuries. It could very well refer to slave masters who are living on earth at the time Jesus comes. Mrs. White does not speak of a special resurrection for them, at least not here. Do you have a statement where she does? Blessings, Green Cochoa. How do you know she doesn't mean slave masters from all time in this statement? And if so, it would mean a special resurrection. How? How we know she doesn't mean it is by not saying it? How do we know she isn't referring to martians, by not bring them up. She says nothing about all time. It doesn't absolutely preclude it, but wouldn't it be reasonable without her referring to specific other times, to conclude she's referring to those then living?
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