This last verse below, Zech 2:13, is when the command to restore and build Jerusalem is finally fulfilled. When God sees the plight of His people, for His own name He will rise up out of His holy habitation.

Here's another prophecy related to Daniel 9 about Jerusalem that has also never been fulfilled. It is getting a lot of attention in Evangelical circles lately because they are concerned about the resurgence of antisemitism. And while it has an application to the Jews this applies especially to spiritual Israel, the church, Jew and Gentile.

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Zec 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

The walls of spiritual Jerusalem, a cloud of protection by day and a pillar of fire by night, lighting the way through the darkness, will once again surround the city of God in the final days of earth's history.

In 1989 I had a dream.  Two holy men in heaven were talking discussing the end of the seventy weeks and one said to the other that at the end of that period everlasting righteousness could have been established in Israel if they had accepted the Messiah.  It wasn't until recently that it occurred to me that this implies that the prophecy of Daniel 9 will eventually be fulfilled at the sealing of spiritual Israel. 

Some expositors such as George Whitfield have held that Christ established the everlasting righteousness of Daniel 9 at the cross, and while this is a glorious truth, it is only part of it. The purpose of the cross is to bring everlasting righteousness to God's people, spiritual Israel. That only happens when the church is fully settled into the truth, perfected and sealed by the Holy Spirit. It occurs first in the sealing of the 144,000 and then in the great multitude. This is where the everlasting righteousness spoken of in Daniel 9 is fully established.

We are near the fulfillment of Rev 7 but Rev 7 is the fulfillment of Daniel 9. One evidence of this is that there is no historic fulfillment of the seven and sixty two weeks. If all of the particulars of a prophecy haven't been fulfilled, we are to look to the future for a complete fulfillment.

But there is potentially greater evidence that could help confirm or disprove my thesis. The seventieth seven, that is, the 70th Jubilee expires this spring which suggests liberation for the church but judgment for the world. If my calculations are correct I only have a couple of months to see more about whether I'm on the right track.  

(bold emphasis mine)

Please explain.

At what time do you believe this prophecy will be fulfilled and how?

By "seventieth seven" do you mean the seventieth week of Daniel 9? If so, that has been completely fulfilled already. Now, there may a dual meaning or secondary meaning if you would please explain that in more detail.

Yes, a dual meaning is what we can look for since all aspects of this prophecy haven't yet been fulfilled. The prophecy says "seventy sevens" in the original and so means a group of seven such as a week, a Sabbatical or a Jubilee. Protestant expositors have known for centuries that the weeks actually represent years. What is less known is that they also represent Sabbaticals and if they are taken in that way the result is exactly the same as using the day-year principle but with the added advantage that there is no conversion of time - the prophecy means exactly what it says without taking a day for year because a Sabbatical is seven years. And taking the seven to mean Sabbaticals also is more in keeping with the divinely intended meaning because it confirms the synchronization of the Sabbaticals of Lev 25 with sacred history.

Modern Jews affirm that the Sabbatical cycle, like the weekly cycle, is still intact from antiquity - that the Jews, ancient and modern, have never lost track of it. Significantly, although they deny Jesus Christ as the Messiah, their own reckoning of the Sabbaticals is an exact fit with Daniel 9 so that 34AD was the final Sabbatical of the 70 which of course confirms that Christ was crucified exactly in the middle of the last Sabbatical cycle in 31AD.

However, the same Jews confess that the Jubilee count was lost after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70AD. So if we reapply the prophecy in terms of Jubilees to account for the unfulfilled portions, where do we begin?

What hasn't yet been fulfilled from the 490 years prophecy in Daniel 9?

In 1989 I had a dream.  Two holy men in heaven were talking discussing the end of the seventy weeks and one said to the other that at the end of that period everlasting righteousness could have been established in Israel if they had accepted the Messiah.  It wasn't until recently that it occurred to me that this implies that the prophecy of Daniel 9 will eventually be fulfilled at the sealing of spiritual Israel. 

Some expositors such as George Whitfield have held that Christ established the everlasting righteousness of Daniel 9 at the cross, and while this is a glorious truth, it is only part of it. The purpose of the cross is to bring everlasting righteousness to God's people, spiritual Israel. That only happens when the church is fully settled into the truth, perfected and sealed by the Holy Spirit. It occurs first in the sealing of the 144,000 and then in the great multitude. This is where the everlasting righteousness spoken of in Daniel 9 is fully established.

We are near the fulfillment of Rev 7 but Rev 7 is the fulfillment of Daniel 9. One evidence of this is that there is no historic fulfillment of the seven and sixty two weeks. If all of the particulars of a prophecy haven't been fulfilled, we are to look to the future for a complete fulfillment.

But there is potentially greater evidence that could help confirm or disprove my thesis. The seventieth seven, that is, the 70th Jubilee expires this spring which suggests liberation for the church but judgment for the world. If my calculations are correct I only have a couple of months to see more about whether I'm on the right track.  

The purpose of the cross is to bring everlasting righteousness to God's people, spiritual Israel. That only happens when the church is fully settled into the truth, perfected and sealed by the Holy Spirit. It occurs first in the sealing of the 144,000 and then in the great multitude. This is where the everlasting righteousness spoken of in Daniel 9 is fully established.

Elle, I've been wondering why the daily sacrifice goes from morning and evening in the Mosaic to just morning in Ezekiel's for a long time. Maybe it's because in Ezekiel's temple the 144k are already cleansed: The only cleansing left is for the multitude so only a morning sacrifice is offered. Solemn but joyful thought. I think we're near that time. Maranatha.

I cover that in my first post of the thread. But briefly, everlasting righteousness hasn't yet been established in spiritual Israel and the division of the seven and sixty two weeks has no historic fulfillment. According to the Jews, the second temple was 46 years in building rather than 49 and the anointed one did not come at that time.

Malachi 3 is the fulfillment of this part of Daniel 9 IMO. The overwhelming surprise that EG White speaks of is when Christ suddenly comes to His temple at the judgment of the living. This is what divides the 69 weeks into two segments of seven and sixty two.

Ellen White says the two cleansings of the temple by Christ are symbolic of the double cleansing of the end-time church. In her statement as I recall it, she equates the first cleansing with the second angel's message and the second cleansing with the third.

If we tie that in with the two temples, the Mosaic and Ezekiel's, it is the second angel's message that calls spiritual Israel out of Babylon.

Once they are out of Babylon, their atonement is complete. They are not beyond sinning but they are cleansed by the blood of Christ so there is a change in the heavenly service as illustrated in Ezekiel's temple where there is only one daily offering.

It is these twelve tribes who then give the final message, the third one, in the power of the latter rain. That is why, in Rev 14 the 144k are pictured before the three angels. These messages are brought to their climax at the loud cry of the third angel by the 144k.

Regarding time setting, I'm not saying anything must happen this spring. I'm saying it could and if it does, we'll have a better picture of where we stand prophetically.

“Not at first had God revealed the exact time of the first advent; and even when the prophecy of Daniel made this known, not all rightly interpreted the message.” PK 700.1

“As the message of Christ’s First Advent announced the kingdom of His grace, so the message of His Second Advent announces the kingdom of His glory. And the second message, like the first, is based on the prophecies. The words of the angel to Daniel relating to the last days were to be understood in the time of the end.” DA 234.4

“The book that was sealed is…that portion of the prophecy of Daniel relating to the last days”AA 585.1

“The light that Daniel received direct from God was given especially for these last days. The visions [Daniel 8-12] he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment and ALL THE EVENTS FORETOLD WILL SOON HAVE COME TO PASS.” 4BC 1166.5 caps added

“After seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you…to return to this place” (Jeremiah 29:10)

“Cyrus succeeded to the throne, and the beginning of his reign marked the completion of the seventy years” PK 556.4

“First I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double” (cf Jeremiah 16:15 & 18).

And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. Daniel 8:14

Ezra “came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which [was] in the seventh year of the king” (Ezra 7:8).

“From the date of the decree of the king of Persia, found in Ezra 7, which was given in 457 before Christ, the 2300 years of Daniel 8:14 must terminate with 1843.”LS80 185.2

“The same evidence they had presented to show that the prophetic periods closed in 1843, proved that they would terminate in 1844. Light from the word of God shone upon their position, and they discovered a tarrying time.--If the vision tarry, wait for it.--In their love for Jesus’ immediate coming, they had overlooked the tarrying of the vision, which was calculated to manifest the true waiting ones.” 1SG 138.1

“In like manner, the types which relate to the Second Advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service. Under the Mosaic system, the cleansing of the sanctuary, or the great Day of Atonement, occurred on the tenth day of the seventh Jewish month, [Leviticus 16:29-34.] when the high priest, having made an atonement for all Israel, and thus removed their sins from the sanctuary, came forth and blessed the people. So it was believed that Christ, our great High Priest, would appear to purify the earth by the destruction of sin and sinners, and to bless His waiting people with immortality. The tenth day of the seventh month, the great Day of Atonement, the time of the cleansing of the sanctuary, which in the year 1844 fell upon the 22d of October, was regarded as the time of the Lord’s coming.” GC88 399.2-3

“The Sanctuary, to be cleansed at the end of the 2300 days, is the New Jerusalem Temple, of which Christ is a minister.”WLF 12.8

“By virtue of the atoning blood of Christ, the sins of all the truly penitent will be blotted from the books of heaven. Thus the sanctuary will be freed, or cleansed, from the record of sin.”PP 357.6

And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. Daniel 8:14

"The visions [Daniel 8-12] ...are now in process of fulfillment and ALL THE EVENTS FORETOLD WILL SOON HAVE COME TO PASS.” 4BC 1166.5 caps added

the 2300 years ended in 1844 but the 2300 day prophecy will not end until the Sanctuary is cleansed when Jesus states "it is done"

OK, let's consider that HC. Where do you think we stand now and why?

“The Revelation is a sealed book, but it is also an open book, recording marvelous events that are to take place in the last days of this earth’s history. Its teachings are definite, not mystical and unintelligible, and God would have us understand it.” ST, January 11, 1899 par. 5

An HOUR (cf Strong):
1) A certain definite time
2) The daytime
3) A twelfth part of the day-time, an hour
4) Any definite time, point of time, moment

Revelation 17:1 "the judgment of the great whore"
2 "With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication"
7 "the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns"
12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

The work of judgment which began in 1844, must continue until the cases of all are decided, both of the living and the dead; hence it will extend to the close of human probation. {GC88 435.2}

The end of all things is at hand; and in consideration of the shortness of time, we as a people should watch and pray, and in no ease allow ourselves to be diverted from the solemn work of preparation for the great event before us. Because the time is apparently extended, many have become careless and indifferent in regard to their words and actions. They do not realize their danger, and do not see and understand the mercy of our God in lengthening their probation that they may have time to form characters for the future, immortal life. Every moment is of the highest value. Time is granted them, not to be employed is studying their own ease and becoming dwellers on the earth, but to be used in the work of overcoming every defect in their own characters, and in helping others to see the beauty of holiness by their example and personal effort. But God has a people upon the earth, who in faith and holy hope are tracing down the roll of fast-fulfilling prophecy, and are seeking to purify their souls by obeying the truth, that they may not be found without the wedding garment when Christ shall appear. {RH, October 20, 1885 par. 1}

Jesus is soon to step out from between God and man. The sealing will then be accomplished--finished up. Oh, let us keep the whole armor of God that we may be ready for battle at any moment. We shall have to fight every inch of ground now. Satan has come down in great power, knowing his time is short; but with the commandments of God written in our hearts and in our minds [we] will go on strong and bold, and although the sons of Anak be many and tall, yet we will go on crying, The commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus. Arabella, the Lord is coming; are you ready? Can you meet Him in peace and say, This is our God, we have waited for Him?--Letter 5, 1849, pp. 5, 6. (To Brother and Sister Hastings, March 24-30, 1849.) {5MR 200.2}

The true people of God, who have the spirit of the work of the Lord and the salvation of souls at heart, will ever view sin in its real, sinful character. They will always be on the side of faithful and plain dealing with sins which easily beset the people of God. Especially in the closing work for the church, in the sealing time of the one hundred and forty-four thousand, who are to stand without fault before the throne of God, will they feel most deeply the wrongs of God's professed people. This is forcibly set forth by the prophet's illustration of the last work under the figure of the men, each having a slaughter weapon in his hand. One man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side. "And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for the abominations that be done in the midst thereof." {RH, September 23, 1873 par. 4}

As someone who places the trumpets and seals and most of Revelation in the future, I wonder sometimes if some aspects of prophecy aren't being fulfilled now or in the recent past without generally being recognized. For example, has the first seal already been broken without our being aware of it? So I'm open to the kinds of things you raise above. Thanks for sharing HC. I'm just not persuaded.

The Lord Himself revealed to His servant John the mysteries of the book of Revelation, and He designs that they shall be open to the study of all. In this book are depicted scenes that are now in the past, and some of eternal interest that are taking place around us; other of its prophecies will not receive their complete fulfillment until the close of time, when the last great conflict between the powers of darkness and the Prince of heaven will take place.RH, August 31, 1897 par. 5

In history and prophecy the Word of God portrays the long continued conflict between truth and error. That conflict is yet in progress. Those things which have been will be repeated. 1MR 47.3 & 17MR 11.1

[quote]The Lord Himself revealed to His servant John the mysteries of the book of Revelation, and He designs that they shall be open to the study of all. In this book are depicted scenes that are now in the past, and some of eternal interest that are taking place around us; other of its prophecies will not receive their complete fulfillment until the close of time, when the last great conflict between the powers of darkness and the Prince of heaven will take place.RH, August 31, 1897 par. 5

Thus the cases of the dead and living have been decided.




Since the HOUR allotted to judge the dead and the living have ended should we not be at the end of probation?

In 1989 I had a dream.  Two holy men in heaven were talking discussing the end of the seventy weeks and one said to the other that at the end of that period everlasting righteousness could have been established in Israel if they had accepted the Messiah.  It wasn't until recently that it occurred to me that this implies that the prophecy of Daniel 9 will eventually be fulfilled at the sealing of spiritual Israel. . . .

We are near the fulfillment of Rev 7 but Rev 7 is the fulfillment of Daniel 9. One evidence of this is that there is no historic fulfillment of the seven and sixty two weeks. If all of the particulars of a prophecy haven't been fulfilled, we are to look to the future for a complete fulfillment.

But there is potentially greater evidence that could help confirm or disprove my thesis. The seventieth seven, that is, the 70th Jubilee expires this spring which suggests liberation for the church but judgment for the world. If my calculations are correct I only have a couple of months to see more about whether I'm on the right track.  

Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Thus the cases of the dead and living have been decided.

The work of judgment which began in 1844, must continue until the cases of all are decided, both of the living and the dead; hence it will extend to the close of human probation. {GC88 435.2}

Since the HOUR allotted to judge the dead and the living have ended should we not be at the end of probation?

Green,

There is the Investigative Judgment.
Then the final sealing of the 144,000.
Then probation closes.
Then Christ Comes.

The ending for the time allotted for the Judgment of the dead and the living is not the end of probation as it may appear on the surface. It is a time to bring every cast current before the throne of God.

Then comes the final sealing time. When the final sealing time is ended, probation ends.

There is a specific time allotted for the judgment of the dead and for the judgment of the living. These specific time periods have ended and we are in the final sealing time of the 144000

His Child,

If you think you can know when probation has closed, you are sadly self-deceived. ...
Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Probation Closes
When the Sealing Is Finished


Just before we entered it [the time of trouble], we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four angels cease to hold the four winds. And I saw famine, pestilence and sword, nation rose against nation, and the whole world was in confusion.--7BC 968 (1846). {LDE 228.4}
I saw angels hurrying to and fro in heaven. An angel with a writer's inkhorn by his side returned from the earth and reported to Jesus that his work was done, and the saints were numbered and sealed. Then I saw Jesus, who had been ministering before the ark containing the ten commandments, throw down the censer. He raised His hands, and with a loud voice said, "It is done."--EW 279 (1858). {LDE 229.1}
Only a moment of time, as it were, yet remains. But while already nation is rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom, there is not now a general engagement. As yet the four winds are held until the servants of God shall be sealed in their foreheads. Then the powers of earth will marshal their forces for the last great battle.--6T 14 (1900). {LDE 229.2}
An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received "the seal of the living God." Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands, and with a loud voice says, "It is done."--GC 613 (1911). {LDE 229.3}

Probation Will End Suddenly, Unexpectedly

When Jesus ceases to plead for man, the cases of all are forever decided. . . . Probation closes; Christ's intercessions cease in heaven. This time finally comes suddenly upon all, and those who have neglected to purify their souls by obeying the truth are found sleeping.--2T 191 (1868). {LDE 229.4}
When probation ends, it will come suddenly, unexpectedly--at a time when we are least expecting it. But we can have a clean record in heaven today, and know that God accepts us.--7BC 989 (1906). {LDE 230.1}
When the work of the investigative judgment closes, the destiny of all will have been decided for life or death. Probation is ended a short time before the appearing of the Lord in the clouds of heaven. . . . {LDE 230.2}
Before the Flood, after Noah entered the ark, God shut him in, and shut the ungodly out; but for seven days the people, knowing not that their doom was fixed, continued their careless, pleasure-loving life, and mocked the warnings of impending judgment. "So," says the Saviour, "shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matthew 24:39). Silently, unnoticed as the midnight thief, will come the decisive hour which marks the fixing of every man's destiny, the final withdrawal of mercy's offer to guilty men. . . . {LDE 230.3}
While the man of business is absorbed in the pursuit of gain, while the pleasure lover is seeking indulgence, while the daughter of fashion is arranging her adornments--it may be in that hour the Judge of all the earth will pronounce the sentence: "Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting" (Daniel 5:27).--GC 490, 491 (1911). {LDE 230.4}

HC, you surprised me as well with that statement re the close of probation. You may want to revisit that issue more carefully.

The other day you stated that you're not trying to persuade anyone, only presenting your study results; that only the Holy Spirit can convince and convict. I agree. I like your open mindedness and that you think out of the box - that's refreshing. But when it comes to scripture we need to handle it carefully and vet our interpretations carefully and prayerfully with all of the inspired sources, following the principle that new light will build on old establish light, that "new light" is often really old light that is rediscovered, and testing your ideas with people of experience before running with an idea and publishing it broadcast. It will enhance your credibility rather than detract from it if you couch you posts tentatively as a learner asking your brothers and sisters for their critique of your thoughts. In doing this you're not bending your mind to another individual. At the end of the discussion you'll walk away in a better position to decide if your idea is scriptural even if you still don't agree with anyone else.

I try to follow those rules myself and if and where I haven't I apologize. At times I think I've asserted new ideas too positively before thoroughly vetting them.

The Revelation is a sealed book, but it is also an open book, recording marvelous events that are to take place in the last days of this earth's history. Its teachings are definite, not mystical and unintelligible, and God would have us understand it. {ST, January 11, 1899 par. 5}

“there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space” (Revelation 17:10).

The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time, while the symbols used reveal the condition of the church at different periods in the history of the world. AA 585.3

“The ten horns…are ten kings, which…receive power as kings one hour with the beast” (Revelation 17:12

Mark,

I appreciate the thoughtful counsel.

BUT Why did I make such a statement?

The investigative judgment began 22 October 1844 when the Hour of His Judgment came (cf Revelation 14).



Since the teachings of Revelation are definite and not mystical and unintelligible, that has to be true of the times in Revelation.

Thus an hour is a specific length of time.

An HOUR (cf Strong):
1) A certain definite time
2) The daytime
3) A twelfth part of the day-time, an hour
4) Any definite time, point of time, moment

Definition #1 & #3 help us to identify the length of time in the Judgment Hour that is not mystical and unintelligible in Revelation 14.

The Jewish principle is called Sha’ah Zemanit:
“Proportional hour… Total daylight hours divided by 12.”
(http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/134527/jewish/About-Zmanim.htm)

Jesus referred to it when He asked, “Are there not twelve hours in the day?” (John 11:9). The length of an hour being determined by the length of the day.

Peter and David tell how long a day is.

“One day is with the Lord as a thousand years” (2 Peter 3:8; cf Psalm 90:4).

Since Jesus defined an hour as 1/12th of a day and His disciple follows up that we should not be IGNORANT to define how long a day is, a Judgment Hour (1/12th of a 1,000 year/day) is 83 years and 4 months.

22 October 1844 + 83 years and 4 months ends 22 February 1928.

What was the condition of fallen Babylon (the dead papacy) from 22 October 1844 to 22 February 1928? It was dead. It had received its deadly wound in February 1798 and it had not been healed by 1928.

February 1929 Mussolini began healing the deadly wound by restoring the secular kingdom to the pope. By June 1929, phase 3 of the restoration was completed.

When did the judgment of the dead begin? On the Day of Atonement!

After papal Babylon's wound was healed by Mussolini in mid-1929 when could the Judgment Hour of the living begin? On the Day of Atonement in 1929, which fell on 14 October 1929.

The time allotted for the Judgment Hour of the Living was from 14 October 1929 + 83 years and 4 months which ended 14 February 2013.

Pope Pius XI received the healing of the deadly wound to restore a kingdom the the popes.



Revelation 17 says 5 kings were fallen:
Pius XI
Pius XII
JOHN XXIII
PAUL VI
JOHN-PAUL I

One is JOHN-PAUL II

and one is to come that reigns for a short space BENEDICT XVI

The short space is not defined in Scripture but the spirit of prophecy states:





The condition of the church was that Benedict XVI was allotted a short space which was less than 7-years or the number of completeness.

John-Paul II died 2 April 2005 Thus Benedict began his ascension year that completed John-Paul II's final year in April 2005 through 28 March 20064. Thus Benedict XVI began his first year as the 7th post-1929 solo pope 28 March 2006 and he ruled through 28 February 2013. 1 day and 1 month short of completeness...7-years.

Thus the Judgment hour allotted for the LIVING from 22 October 1929 to 22 February 2013 (83 years 4 months) began with the reign of Pius XI and ended in the reign of Benedict XVI.

“Ten kings [Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, & Clinton)...receive power as kings one hour with the beast” (Revelation 17:12).

The time allotted for the Judgment Hour of the LIVING ended 22 February 2013 and the solo pope papacy from Pius XI to Benedict XVI correlated with that hour. It has ended in that there are now two popes living concurrently as there were 2 kings of ancient Babylon when the kingdom fell to the Medo-Persian kingdom.

Revelation 14 clearly announces that the Judgment hour of the DEAD has begun (22 October 1844) Note that the 1st angel announces the 1844 Judgment Hour Then the 2nd angel states Babylon is FALLEN (even though papal Babylon fell in 1798 before the 1st angel sounded).

In Revelation 18:2 the 2nd angel sounds before the first Angel. 18:5 "For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." When does Babylon's sins reach heaven? When are her sins remembered in Heaven? Is it not when the books are opened during the judgment?

18:6 "Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double."

When is the reward given? Before or after the Investigative Judgment?

19:2 "For true and righteous are His judgments: for He hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication [Benedict resigned because the his priests' fornication---we are at the end of the time allotted for the investigative judgment but in the gap before the pouring out of God's wrath when He dispenses Judgment], and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand."

Trying to keep it short. If I missed or added something please tell me.

But HC, March 27 to April 1 didn't work out the way you thought! Have you accounted for that in these conclusions that you have drawn?

The ending for the time allotted for the Judgment of the dead and the living is not the end of probation as it may appear on the surface. It is a time to bring every cast (I think you mean "case"?) current before the throne of God. By HC.

yes

There are those who study the Bible (and make mistakes from time to time). There are those who constructively interact with them and contribute to the study and increase knowledge. There are those who are the accusers of the brethren. And there are a lot of people all along the spectrum between encourager and accuser who do not know where they are in Bible prophecy.

Bible prophecy study is a learning experience. For we know in part and when that which is perfect is come, we know more.

My original understanding was that if President Obama left office on 20 January 2017, that Christ would have to come by 19 January 2018.

Or Obama would have to return to office before 20 January 2018. More study led me to go with 28 March date as the Babylonian New Year's Day. Someone told me on this forum that 28 March could not be Babylon's New Year's Day.

28 March was Nisan 1 (New Year's Day on the Hebrew calendar this year)

But if some want to toss the baby out with the wash water... But I believe that my understanding is closer than some folks think and when more pieces of the puzzle are understood, the blessing will be self evident.

I'll admit that I've mistakes in my understanding of things at times. But, I learn from those mistakes and adjust my thinking to the new information.

It doesn't seem that is happening. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

You say it applies specifically to the day and hour of Christ's return rather than being a blanket prohibition of prophetic periods after 1844. That's a point worth considering.

That is why being a scoffer is often fatal. Those who scoffed at Miller felt they were justified when his prediction proved false as they thought. Small consolation for the spiritual death that resulted from their unbelief.

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Mat 24:36)

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)

But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Mat_24:36, NRSV. {CTr 343.1}

Your views have found favor with some,but it is because these
persons have not discernment to see the true bearing of the
arguments you present.

They have had but a limited experience in the work of God for this time, and they do not see where your views would lead them. They are ready to assent to your statements;they see nothing in them but that which is correct. But they are misled because you have woven together much Scripture in constructing your theory; your arguments appear conclusive to them. {CTr 343.2}

Not so, however, with those who have an experimental knowledge of the truth that applies in the last period of this earth’s history. While they see that you hold some precious truth, they see also that you have misapplied Scripture, placing it in a framework of error, where it does not belong, and making it give force to that which is not present truth. The light God has given me is that the Scriptures you have woven together you yourself do not fully understand.{CTr 343.3}

I have had to speak plainly in regard to those who were then
leading away from right paths. With pen and voice I have borne the message, “Go not ye after them.” The hardest task I ever had to do in this line was in dealing with one who, I knew, wanted to follow the Lord. For some time he had thought he was obtaining new light.

He was very ill, and must soon die.Those to whom he presented his views listened to him eagerly, and some thought him
inspired. He had a chart made and reasoned from the Scriptures to show that the Lord would come at a certain date, in 1894 I think. To many his reasoning seemed to be without a flaw. They told of his powerful exhortations in his sickroom. Most wonderful views passed before him. But what was the source of his inspiration? It was the morphine given him to relieve his pain.{CTr 343.4}

No one has a true message fixing the time when Christ is to come or not to come. Be assured that God gives no one authority to say that Christ delays His coming five years, ten years, or twenty years. “Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.”{CTr 343.5}

All who are laborers together with God will contend most earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints. They will not be turned from the present message, which is already lightening the earth with its glory. Nothing is worth contending for but the glory of God. The only rock that will stand is the Rock of Ages. The truth as it is in Jesus is the refuge in these days of error.-Letter 32, 1896. {CTr 343.6}

I've been reading HC's (Henry's) posts for approximately twenty years now. He will only admit to making a "little" mistake, and that he now has new information to show a new approximate time period. It's happened many times now. It started back when John Paul II was the pope and Bill Clinton was the president.
It would be interesting to compile all the "present truth" predictions made over those years that just didn't happen.

It's like building sand castles and urging everyone to seek refuge in those sand castles or drown, but every time a wave comes and washes their sand castle away, instead of realizing this speculation its self is the mistake, and it is NOT the third angel's message, they just go to work to build a new one ---it's an addiction this constant speculative predicting.

Can you explain how this works. For example if the judgment of the living is over who can be saved except those who are being sealed? And they have already been judged so why would we attempt to bring people to Christ if only those who are already saved are being sealed? Am I misunderstanding?

I have to say HC, I think you may be closer to the truth than many of us regarding Ellen White's position on the angel's declaration that time would be no longer. You say it applies specifically to the day and hour of Christ's return rather than being a blanket prohibition of prophetic periods after 1844. That's a point worth considering.

Another of her statements suggests that her meaning is that time prophecy will never be a testing truth again. In the context of the angel's declaration ending time she says it shows that the people will never be tested on time again as they were in 1844.

Taken together, these two ideas are complementary, the one helping to interpret the other.

This is a good lesson for us. If you lived in America in 1844, you didn't need to have a completely correct understanding of the meaning of Daniel 8:14 for it to be a testing, present truth. God was speaking through Miller to America. Miller wasn't completely right but his message, the kingdom is at hand in the year 1844, was still testing truth.

That is why being a scoffer is often fatal. Those who scoffed at Miller felt they were justified when his prediction proved false as they thought. Small consolation for the spiritual death that resulted from their unbelief.

...

God Gives No Authority To Set A Time For Christ’s Return

“Though no man knoweth the day nor the hour of His coming, we are instructed and required to know when it is near. We are further taught that to disregard His warning, and refuse or neglect to know when His Advent is near, will be as fatal for us, as it was for those who lived in the days of Noah not to know when the flood was coming.” GC88 370.2

...I've been reading HC's (Henry's) posts for approximately twenty years now.

He will only admit to making a "little" mistake, and that he now has new information to show a new approximate time period. It's happened many times now. It started back when John Paul II was the pope and Bill Clinton was the president.
It would be interesting to compile all the "present truth" predictions made over those years that just didn't happen...

From my current understanding by 19 January 2018 Obama will have to be back in office or Christ will have to Come.

As I said in the other thread, "whether or not Ellen White was referring specifically to just calculating the time of the second coming, the act of calculating events since 1844 does end up being an attempt to do exactly that through a route of reasoning by elimination."


Do you see what this is? You've set a deadline for Jesus's second coming - and this isn't the first one I've seen from you.

Even if you were right about what Ellen White meant about calculating time, this is still just what she said not to do and is the real point of time prophecies after 1844. Every attempt I know of to calculate time post 1844, whether by presidents, popes, or jubilees, leads one directly to an attempt to calculate, even if approximately, the approach of the second coming if not the exact date.

Unbelief is still rampant. Who is teaching the final message of mercy to the world? So HC, I don't see in your teaching the real message needed for this time.

Mat_24:36  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mar_13:32  But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The testimonies not only condemn setting a specific day for Christ's return, they warn us not to even give an approximate time == like in one or two or five years.

See the quotes in this post

.

As I currently understand it, the time allotted for the Judgment Hour of the living ended on 14 February 2013. So the case of every living person is current in the courts of Heaven.

Yes she says that too, I agree, and then as HC also points out she also says we're to know when it's getting near.

Many Adventists have felt that unless they could fix their faith upon a definite time for the Lord's coming, they could not be zealous and diligent in the work of preparation. But as their hopes are again and again excited, only to be destroyed, their faith receives such a shock that it becomes well-nigh impossible for them to be impressed by the great truths of prophecy. The preaching of a definite time for the Judgment, in the giving of the first angel's message, was ordered of God. The computation of the prophetic periods on which that message was based, placing the close of the 2300 days in the autumn of 1844, stands without impeachment. The repeated efforts to find new dates for the beginning and close of the prophetic periods, and the unsound reasoning necessary to sustain these positions, not only led minds away from the present truth, but throw contempt upon all efforts to explain the prophecies. The more frequently a definite time is set for the second advent, and the more widely it is taught, the better it suits the purposes of Satan. After the time has passed, he excites ridicule and contempt of its advocates, and thus casts reproach upon the great Advent movement of 1843 and 1844. Those who persist in this error will at last fix upon a date too far in the future for the coming of Christ. Thus they will be led to rest in a false security, and many will not be undeceived until it is too late. {GC88 456.2}

The mighty angel who instructed John was no less a personage than Jesus Christ. Setting His right foot on the sea, and His left upon the dry land, shows the part which He is acting in the closing scenes of the great controversy with Satan. This position denotes His supreme power and authority over the whole earth. The controversy had waxed stronger and more determined from age to age, and will continue to do so, to the concluding scenes when the masterly working of the powers of darkness shall reach their height. Satan, united with evil men, will deceive the whole world and the churches who receive not the love of the truth. But the mighty angel demands attention. He cries with a loud voice. He is to show the power and authority of His voice to those who have united with Satan to oppose the truth.
After these seven thunders uttered their voices, the injunction comes to John as to Daniel in regard to the little book: "Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered." These relate to future events which will be disclosed in their order. Daniel shall stand in his lot at the end of the days. John sees the little book unsealed. Then Daniel's prophecies have their proper place in the first, second, and third angels' messages to be given to the world. The unsealing of the little book was the message in relation to time.
The books of Daniel and the Revelation are one. One is a prophecy, the other a revelation; one a book sealed, the other a book opened. John heard the mysteries which the thunders uttered, but he was commanded not to write them.
The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. In the order of God most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed. The first and second angels' messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work. This is represented by the angel standing with one foot on the sea, proclaiming with a most solemn oath that time should be no longer.
This time, which the angel declares with a solemn oath, is not the end of this world's history, neither of probationary time, but of prophetic time, which should precede the advent of our Lord. That is, the people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time, reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844.
The angel's position, with one foot on the sea, the other on the land, signifies the wide extent of the proclamation of the message. It will cross the broad waters and be proclaimed in other countries, even to all the world. The comprehension of truth, the glad reception of the message, is represented in the eating of the little book. The truth in regard to the time of the advent of our Lord was a precious message to our souls (MS 59, 1900).

I have to say here, non-Adventist Christians are often more spiritually awake than most of us. A sizable percentage of non-Adventists have now rejected the pre-tribulation rapture and are fully expecting the trumpets to sound at any time. They are often more repentant and zealous than we are. Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. It's not what you know prophetically or otherwise, it's who you know. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Many of these are already Sabbath keepers. Will the Lord have to bypass us as He did the Jews? We're at a time when He has started to gather the remnant of Israel's 12 tribes, the children of Abraham by faith, whether by blood or by adoption. None will be overlooked, but all will be children of faith.

It would be more truthful for you to say "I've been REJECTING HC's (Henry's) posts for approximately twenty years now."

The record is very clear. You must also remember one of our discussions where I misspoke and you posted a "thesis" that focused on my typo. But when I read your post, I immediately corrected the typo and my position was proven to be correct, BUT you refused to allow my reply to be posted on your forum and your error was allowed to stand. Had you been more willing to dialog through the years rather than to criticize, we both may have been blessed.



God's promise is that knowledge of the book of Daniel would increase. Before knowledge increased I did not understand everything about Bill Clinton. But I did understand how his affair with Monica fulfilled prophecy. So you remember the part I got wrong but not the part that I got right.

When Bill Clinton left office I expected Albert (6) Arnold (6) Gore II (6) to be elected President and he was, but George (6) Walker (6) Bush (4) stole the election from him with the help of the judges that his dad appointed to the Supreme Court. Then George (6) Walker (6) (President) Bush II (6) was the last man that I could see in the prophecy. I had to study some more.

Then between September 2011 to September 2012, I correctly stated (tweeted it 8 times) that Pope Benedict would not be pope after the the Spring of 2013 and he left office in February 2013. Knowledge is increasing.

I had to go back to see how President Barack Obama fit into the prophecy. Then knowledge increased and I learned how his number was (666) but President Trump now makes it look like I have not learned anything yet. But he is fulfilling prophecy and strengthening America's position on the world stage.

Knowledge is increasing. I called Brexit before it happened. And I understood when the "Other Angel" began to sound and the time allotted for the Judgment of the Living ended.

If President Trump lasts in office past 19 January 2018, I will have been wrong about my understanding about Bible prophecy. From my current understanding by 19 January 2018 Obama will have to be back in office or Christ will have to Come.

Because God's word is sure. When the vision in Daniel 7 that has been used traditionally to interpret the interpretation, the final meaning of the prophecy is different than when the interpretation is used to interpret the vision. Sea and earth are not the same. Sea beasts are not earth kings. Sea and earth are different.

And you look at the record and see major mistakes. I keep studying and praying to learn and to grow in Jesus and my understanding increases.

As knowledge continues to increase, I will continue to adjust my understanding accordingly.

Can you say the same thing of yourself? Have you ever ventured forth in faith? Have you ever grown beyond making insinuations and accusations that distort my views? Have you ever really reasoned with me? I have not seen it through the last 20 years.

Also HC I think there is some basis for your claim that prophet time, the day/year principle ended in 1844 not literal time prophecies. I'd be interested in what others have to say on that point. I'm sure most would say "prophetic time" means "prophetic time" whether day/year or literal. So what do you say to that HC?

By the way I just reviewed your post again on this at the bottom of page 5 and you give some reasons but don't quote the passages. I'd be grateful if you gave an example or two of her use of the phrase "prophetic time" and/or that quote you mentioned about worldly men asserting that all prophecies are lies.

I was a firm believer in definite time in 1844, but this prophetic time was not shown me in vision... There were many proclaiming a new time after this, but I was shown that we should not have another definite time to proclaim. 16MR 177.2

That is, the people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time, reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844… The truth in regard to the time of the advent of our Lord was a precious message to our souls. 19MR 319.3 - 321.2

They were correct in their reckoning of the prophetic periods; prophetic time closed in 1844, and Jesus entered the most holy place to cleanse the sanctuary at the ending of the days.EW 243.2

Active preachers and exhorters in 1844, now seemed to have lost their moorings, and did not know where we were in prophetic time; they were fast uniting with the spirit of the world. LS88 205.1

Many of them have denied the prophetic time and the fulfillment of prophecy, because the time passed in 1844, and did not bring the expected event. LS88 221.1

The angel standing with one foot on the sea, proclaiming with a most solemn oath that time should be no longer. This time which the angel declares…reaches to the autumn of 1844…in regard to the time of the advent of our Lord… 1MR 99.3-100.1

The prophetic time…for the coming of the Lord. LS 57.3

The world placed all time proclamation on the same level... Our position has been one of waiting and watching, with no time proclamation to intervene between the close of the prophetic periods in 1844 and the time of the Lord’s coming. We do not know the day nor the hour, or when the definite time is, and yet the prophetic reckoning shows us that Christ is at the door. 16MR 178.2

There will never again be a message for the people of God that will be based on time. We are not to know the definite time either for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit or for the coming of Christ. 1SM 188.1

Oic... George H.W. Bush stole the election for his son and undermined God's prophecy? I don't believe that.

Well, I hope you will learn present truth His Child Henry before it is too late.

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Let's set aside question on what Ellen White meant about time prophecies, and instead go to the Bible. Above already is one parable about the virgins who, whether good or bad, didn't know what time to expect.

The parable given is that the servants didn't know when their master would return. These are not bad servants. It was simply the case that they didn't know what time to watch for, and so were to watch continuously while diligently carrying out their work. In none of the parables regarding the second coming are we given an indication that those in the parable knew what time to expect.

Again, the fact that the servants were waiting and watching shows us that they didn't already know what time to look for. The possibility is presented that the return could be at various times.

The Bible is consistent on this point: we don't, can't, and won't know the time of the second coming until it is upon us.

There are still many things that we don't know about Revelation, as well as many conflicting theories, and they need careful and focused study combined always with prayer. I was thinking just today that Revelation is evidence of God, as it's clear that there's a great truth just beyond the horizon and that we can't comprehend by our own wisdom. No human mind could have produced something so perfect and yet also so difficult to fathom.

The message for this time is to fear God, who made heaven and earth. To flee the deceptions of the world. To worship God only and keep all of His commandments. This message is not one of time setting beyond the fact of judgment having begun in 1844. This is the message that all of us, including you, are called to give.

As I said in the other thread, "whether or not Ellen White was referring specifically to just calculating the time of the second coming, the act of calculating events since 1844 does end up being an attempt to do exactly that through a route of reasoning by elimination."


Do you see what this is? You've set a deadline for Jesus's second coming - and this isn't the first one I've seen from you.

Even if you were right about what Ellen White meant about calculating time, this is still just what she said not to do and is the real point of time prophecies after 1844. Every attempt I know of to calculate time post 1844, whether by presidents, popes, or jubilees, leads one directly to an attempt to calculate, even if approximately, the approach of the second coming if not the exact date.

@His Child

Your statement "This is the time to be sure that we have received the vessel of oil with our lamps" is absolutely correct. We are very close to the end. Like both the foolish and wise virgins, we just don't know how close, and can't know...

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

The parable given is that the servants didn't know when their master would return... In none of the parables regarding the second coming are we given an indication that those in the parable knew what time to expect.

35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Again, the fact that the servants were waiting and watching shows us that they didn't already know what time to look for. The possibility is presented that the return could be at various times.

Da 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Da 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

The Bible is consistent on this point: we don't, can't, and won't know the time of the second coming until it is upon us.

There are still many things that we don't know about Revelation, as well as many conflicting theories, and they need careful and focused study combined always with prayer. I was thinking just today that Revelation is evidence of God, as it's clear that there's a great truth just beyond the horizon and that we can't comprehend by our own wisdom. No human mind could have produced something so perfect and yet also so difficult to fathom.

The message for this time is to fear God, who made heaven and earth. To flee the deceptions of the world. To worship God only and keep all of His commandments. This message is not one of time setting beyond the fact of judgment having begun in 1844. This is the message that all of us, including you, are called to give.

The Bible is consistent on this point: we don't, can't, and won't know the exact time of the second coming, but we will know the season before it is upon us.

39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

The third angel's message, though a warning against the mark of the beast, is at its core an advocacy for the true commandments of God. This message does not hinge on time. It's not a message to give at the right time when the beast makes its move. It's a message for now and until the end.

Luke 12:38 "And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants."

I say again, the fact that the servants were waiting and watching shows us that they didn't already know what time to look for. The possibility is presented that the return could be at various times.

We are given no impression that the servants knew what time the return would be...

Truth is progressive; and those who are preparing for the last great day will go forward in accordance with the accumulated light which shines upon them from the prophecies and from the lessons of Christ and the apostles.RH, January 5, 1886 par. 6

The prophecies, so far as they had been fulfilled, had been fulfilled literally; that all the various figures, metaphors, parables, similitudes, etc., were either explained in their immediate connection, or the terms in which they were expressed were defined in other scriptures, and when thus explained, were to be literally understood. GC 320.2

The first A shall be last and the last W shall be first:
WA = 1) Ronald Wilson ReAgan
WA = 2) George Herbert WAlker Bush
WA = 3) WilliAm Jefferson Clinton
WA = 4) George WAlker Bush

***** STAFF EDIT *****

"There is no doubt in my mind" where we are on God's prophetic calendar or that as a people we are negligent in our proclamation of the Third Angel's Message of warning.

or that as a people we are negligent in our proclamation of the Third Angel's Message of warning.

The first A shall be last and the last W shall be first:
WA = 1) Ronald Wilson ReAgan
WA = 2) George Herbert WAlker Bush
WA = 3) WilliAm Jefferson Clinton
WA = 4) George WAlker Bush

Guess that didn't work out.
Ronald
o=Omega
a=Alpha.


(By the way, it's omega, not a double-u as my physics instructor pointed out!)

Then you physics instructor knows more than a professional Social worker

Don't suppose that makes any difference. The clinging to a thought even in the face of error being pointed out. I do realize that throws a wrench in your ideas. And maybe messes up your upcoming book.

"Shortcomings"? Ooops.

But..... You need to face the facts. Don't try to change them to fit your ideas.

Alpha (uppercase Α, lowercase α; Greek: Άλφα Álpha) is the first letter of the Greek alphabet. In the system of Greek numerals it has a value of 1. It was derived from the Phoenician and Hebrew letter aleph - an ox or leader. Letters that arose from alpha include the Latin A and the Cyrillic letter А. (Alpha - Wikipedia)

Omega (capital: Ω, lowercase: ω; Greek Ωμέγα) is the 24th and last letter of the Greek alphabet. In the Greek numeric system, it has a value of 800. The word literally means "great O" (ō mega, mega meaning "great"), as opposed to omicron, which means "little O" (o mikron, micron meaning "little"). (Omega - Wikipedia)

1/ (And FYI no matter what time it is when Jesus comes it will be midnight somewhere on earth.)

2/ The study of Heaven's explanation of the earth KINGS in Daniel 7 identifies the American Presidents:
3/The major thing that my study has not completely understood as yet is the appearance of President Trump.

4/ He does not have an Alpha or an Omega. So I do not see him as being the second little horn on the American beast in Revelation 13, which could be the case if its first little horn were Bush II and Obama as though they were one. But in view of Daniel 8 Obama is the one that makes himself wax great. Thus with all things considered it looks like Trump has been placed in office to enact political chaos that Obama would not do.

5/ Thus Trump is a closer that cannot be in office past 1 January 2018. I had first thought and told mountain man on this forum over a year ago about 19 January 2018, but I am inclined to think that 1 January 2018 is more accurate. If Trump should continue past 20 January 2018, I will be very surprised.

6/ And of course we have the number 666 that aligns with the papacy and the image beast (for the image beast to be an image of the beast it has to have its number). You know how to count it for the papacy. And the number of the letters in his name (America's Presidents) end with Obama when the count is begun with Monroe:

James Monroe----------------------------11
John Quincy Adams-----------------------15
Andrew Jackson II-----------------------13
Martin Van Buren------------------------14
William Henry Harrison------------------20
John Tyler II---------------------------11
James Knox Polk-------------------------13
Zachary Taylor--------------------------13
Millard Fillmore------------------------15
Franklin Pierce-------------------------14
James Buchanan II-----------------------15
Abraham Lincoln-------------------------14
Andrew Johnson--------------------------13
Ulysses Simpson Grant-------------------19
Rutherford Birchard Hayes---------------23
James Abram Garfield--------------------18
Chester Alan Arthur---------------------17
Stephen Grover Cleveland----------------22
Benjamin Harrison-----------------------16
William McKinley II---------------------17
Theodore Roosevelt II-------------------19
William Howard Taft---------------------17
Woodrow Wilson--------------------------13
Warren Gamaliel Harding-----------------21
Calvin Coolidge-------------------------14
Herbert Clark Hoover--------------------18
Franklin Delano Roosevelt---------------23
Harry S. Truman-------------------------12
Dwight David Eisenhower-----------------21
John Fitzgerald Kennedy-----------------21
Lyndon Baines Johnson-------------------19
Richard Milhous Nixon-------------------19
Gerald Rudolph Ford II------------------19
James Earl Carter II--------------------17
Ronald Wilson Reagan--------------------18
George Herbert Walker Bush--------------23
William Jefferson Clinton---------------23
George Walker Bush----------------------16
Barack Hussein Obama II---------------20
------------------------------------------666

7/ And then when you scoff at this evidence, because you do not have a clue why the count should start with Monroe. Then I could share with you several things that my study has discovered that you would most like trample in the mire like pearls of great value that are viewed as worthless pebbles.

8/ The wise will hear a matter before they pass judgment on it. But the preponderance of evidence will not help anyone on their journey to Heaven for it is written along this line---Not by might or by power but by My Spirit saith the LORD.

9/ I don;t see any thing to be gained by wasting time telling you something that you will continue to reject when that time could be used more productively in other fields.

10/The Lord is sealing His people in the Present Truth for this day.

...
Also, we are not "sealed with present truth," we are sealed by The Spirit:

"The Lord is sealing His people in the Present Truth for this day."

Notice how you changed my words and replied to what you thought I said rather than what I actually said.


how a little word changes the context and the meaning. Judging from your response, it is not possible to to reply further because I know what I wrote and what I meant but who knows what you read or what you think it means.

As long as folks read things that I do not say into what I say, they will miss the blessing. Could that be what Jesus was talking about when He spoke of some folks having ears but hearing not?

Its amazing how your posts here are twisting small nuances and variants into great and all-prevailing doctrine. The Bible is pretty clear:

"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)

Talk about trying to change the facts to disprove truth that you refuse to believe:





And of course the forum is not set up to post the exact Greek symbols when I hit the post function they will likely be changed so you will have to go to Wikipedia to see the A and the W. Like the column below that is straight in the draft but anything but in the preview.

But the Greek confirms the point that my study made that you are trying in vain to obliterate with your much posting.

Jesus is the Alpha (A) and Omega (W)
His parable of the 11th hour states that the Alpha (A) will be last and the Omega (W) will be first. The 11th hour is the hour before the 12 hour. The Bridegroom comes at midnight (the twelfth hour). (And FYI no matter what time it is when Jesus comes it will be midnight somewhere on earth.)

The study of Heaven's explanation of the earth KINGS in Daniel 7 identifies the American Presidents:

Ronald Wilson Reagan
George Herbert Walker Bush
William Jefferson Clinton
George Walker Bush

Barack Hussein Obama

The Alpha (A) is last and the Omega (W) is first sequentially in the first four Presidents identified above. And when George Walker Bush & Barack Hussein Obama are viewed as though they are one (like pagan and papal Rome were as one in Daniel 7) the sequencing is according to the parable (George Walker Bush has the Omega (W) & Barack Hussein Obama ends with the Alpha (A) as it is written THE FIRST SHALL BE LAST.

The major thing that my study has not completely understood as yet is the appearance of President Trump.

He does not have an Alpha or an Omega. So I do not see him as being the second little horn on the American beast in Revelation 13, which could be the case if its first little horn were Bush II and Obama as though they were one. But in view of Daniel 8 Obama is the one that makes himself wax great. Thus with all things considered it looks like Trump has been placed in office to enact political chaos that Obama would not do.

Thus Trump is a closer that cannot be in office past 1 January 2018. I had first thought and told mountain man on this forum over a year ago about 19 January 2018, but I am inclined to think that 1 January 2018 is more accurate. If Trump should continue past 20 January 2018, I will be very surprised.

And of course we have the number 666 that aligns with the papacy and the image beast (for the image beast to be an image of the beast it has to have its number). You know how to count it for the papacy. And the number of the letters in his name (America's Presidents) end with Obama when the count is begun with Monroe:

James Monroe----------------------------11
John Quincy Adams-----------------------15
Andrew Jackson II-----------------------13
Martin Van Buren------------------------14
William Henry Harrison------------------20
John Tyler II---------------------------11
James Knox Polk-------------------------13
Zachary Taylor--------------------------13
Millard Fillmore------------------------15
Franklin Pierce-------------------------14
James Buchanan II-----------------------15
Abraham Lincoln-------------------------14
Andrew Johnson--------------------------13
Ulysses Simpson Grant-------------------19
Rutherford Birchard Hayes---------------23
James Abram Garfield--------------------18
Chester Alan Arthur---------------------17
Stephen Grover Cleveland----------------22
Benjamin Harrison-----------------------16
William McKinley II---------------------17
Theodore Roosevelt II-------------------19
William Howard Taft---------------------17
Woodrow Wilson--------------------------13
Warren Gamaliel Harding-----------------21
Calvin Coolidge-------------------------14
Herbert Clark Hoover--------------------18
Franklin Delano Roosevelt---------------23
Harry S. Truman-------------------------12
Dwight David Eisenhower-----------------21
John Fitzgerald Kennedy-----------------21
Lyndon Baines Johnson-------------------19
Richard Milhous Nixon-------------------19
Gerald Rudolph Ford II------------------19
James Earl Carter II--------------------17
Ronald Wilson Reagan--------------------18
George Herbert Walker Bush--------------23
William Jefferson Clinton---------------23
George Walker Bush----------------------16
Barack Hussein Obama II---------------20
------------------------------------------666

And then when you scoff at this evidence, because you do not have a clue why the count should start with Monroe. Then I could share with you several things that my study has discovered that you would most like trample in the mire like pearls of great value that are viewed as worthless pebbles.

The wise will hear a matter before they pass judgment on it. But the preponderance of evidence will not help anyone on their journey to Heaven for it is written along this line---Not by might or by power but by My Spirit saith the LORD.

I don;t see any thing to be gained by wasting time telling you something that you will continue to reject when that time could be used more productively in other fields.

The Lord is sealing His people in the Present Truth for this day.

"His Child" interprets the prophecy of kings based on two foundations important to him:

1. The Angel of God said the kings will arise out of "the earth", and
2. Ellen White said "the earth" represented the USA.

Putting two and two together, or rather one and one, he arrived at the rather startling discovery that the horns and heads must represent US presidents. And so he has gone looking diligently for the slightest of excuses to see any fulfillment of prophecy in them.

If you understand this, you are well on your way to discussing the matter with him; but first, you will have to show him good reason how and why Ellen White was VERY wrong.

///