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Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: Nadi] #184212
06/23/17 08:47 PM
06/23/17 08:47 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
When studying something it a good idea to take a long-range view of the issue first. A sort of 30,000 ft. flyover of the issue so a person can later see where details fit in an overall view of an issue.

To start off deep in the weeds of a subject is to miss how the subject fits into the overall picture being looked at. The individual trees get mistaken for how and where they fit into the forest in which they reside. Thus people can argue all day long to no avail because they disagree where an individual tree fits in the forest because they didn't look at the entire forest to begin with.

If we look at a long range view of a mountainside we can see stands of poplar, quaking aspen, larch, douglas fir, yellow pine, etc... and see how they all fit together. If all we do is immediately start examining the quaking aspen's roots with a magnifiying glass and arguing from that how the stand of quaking aspen relates to the rest of the forest there can never be consensus or even an understanding of how those quakies actually fit into the forested mountainside.

Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: ] #184213
06/24/17 01:27 AM
06/24/17 01:27 AM
N
Nadi  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
To start off deep in the weeds of a subject is to miss...
Perhaps.
Or it indicates that one already has the big picture clearly in view.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: Nadi] #184214
06/24/17 06:11 AM
06/24/17 06:11 AM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: Gary K
To start off deep in the weeds of a subject is to miss...
Perhaps.
Or it indicates that one already has the big picture clearly in view.


That's great. As you already have the big picture clearly in view, then the four questions I asked Elle ought to be very easy for you to answer since they are big picture questions.

Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: Nadi] #184215
06/24/17 06:50 AM
06/24/17 06:50 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Nadi

2. I always read all of her posts, because:
a. She will always make you think.
b. If you only read stuff you agree with, you will never challenge your beliefs.
I certainly agree with you on this point. smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: ] #184216
06/24/17 06:59 AM
06/24/17 06:59 AM
N
Nadi  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Elle,

Before we get into scripture I have a few questions for you.

1. Do you see a struggle between good and evil down throughout human history?

2. Do you see that struggle in your own life and the lives of others?

3. Is there clear misconception of who God is in the world?

4. In the Garden of Eden when the devil tempted Adam and Eve what was the temptation based on? What idea?
Perhaps start another thread.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: Nadi] #184217
06/24/17 07:05 AM
06/24/17 07:05 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Please bear in mind that I am NOT an SDA, and therefore, with all due respect, I do not accept the authority of Ellen White. No offence intended. If you hope to show me the legitimacy of the IJ, a strong argument would not include reference to her or her works.
I think that is awesome that you are asking these questions here! I find that it can be very educational to study questions asked by others.

I am almost out of time for tonight, but Id like to comment that many years ago when i studied this doctrine, I ended up calling it "The Pre Advent Judgment." I think that in recent years, some church members have adopted this take on the IJ, and mostly because of the fact that it takes place, during the 1000 year millenium, which is before the "final judgment" which I think is what you are referring to? It is my understanding that during this Pre Advent Judgment, it is not so much as us being judged, because this is where we will have the opportunity to review all that God has done in our lives, and to see just why He did, or did not do whatever has taken place with us. It is the point in time where we can look at God, and know for a fact that He is Just, and The Justifier in our lives.
Quote:
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (Rom 3:26)
I will of course comment in more detail as time permits! keep up the good work in studying the Scriptures for yourself! Thats the best place to start. smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: The Wanderer] #184218
06/24/17 02:20 PM
06/24/17 02:20 PM
N
Nadi  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
I am almost out of time for tonight, but Id like to comment that many years ago when i studied this doctrine, I ended up calling it "The Pre Advent Judgment." I think that in recent years, some church members have adopted this take on the IJ, and mostly because of the fact that it takes place, during the 1000 year millenium, which is before the "final judgment" which I think is what you are referring to?

This is an idea that I am much more comfortable with and can see more Biblical support for. Of course, much depends on what is understood by the various terms, but immediately I can see that it is more Biblical than a judgement starting in 1844.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: Nadi] #184219
06/24/17 07:01 PM
06/24/17 07:01 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Me thinks The Wanderer confuses the pre-Advent (IJ) Judgment with the 1000 years which takes place AFTER the Advent. If something takes place "after", then it can't be called "pre-".


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: Nadi] #184220
06/24/17 07:46 PM
06/24/17 07:46 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
I am almost out of time for tonight, but Id like to comment that many years ago when i studied this doctrine, I ended up calling it "The Pre Advent Judgment." I think that in recent years, some church members have adopted this take on the IJ, and mostly because of the fact that it takes place, during the 1000 year millenium, which is before the "final judgment" which I think is what you are referring to?

This is an idea that I am much more comfortable with and can see more Biblical support for. Of course, much depends on what is understood by the various terms, but immediately I can see that it is more Biblical than a judgement starting in 1844.

Just another quick note, In saying the above I am neither denying or confirming "1844." smile


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical? [Re: APL] #184222
06/25/17 01:28 AM
06/25/17 01:28 AM
N
Nadi  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Me thinks The Wanderer confuses the pre-Advent (IJ) Judgment with the 1000 years which takes place AFTER the Advent. If something takes place "after", then it can't be called "pre-".
Possibly, but only if both viewpoints adhere to the same definitions and chronology.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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