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#183577 - 05/07/17 08:45 PM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Mark Shipowick]
Mark Shipowick Offline
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The study of astronomy ought to be encouraged. "The heavens declare the glory of God . . . " The night sky is one of the most valuable lesson books of nature and of the majesty and power of God. The Magi would, like the Jews, not have noticed the new star in the heavens heralding Christ's birth if they had not been accomplished astronomers. Have another look at what the sacred record says about the purposes of God in creating the heavenly bodies. smile
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#183578 - 05/07/17 08:57 PM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Mark Shipowick]
Mark Shipowick Offline
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As far as I know there are no large scale pagan style monuments to the heavenly bodies that have been found in Israel or built by Jews to calculate or mark the seasons. There have always been apostate groups and movements among God's people so it is possible something like that could have been constructed. But if something like that was found say from the reign of the kings it wouldn't be wise to assume it was pagan or simply scientific, like a modern telescope, until we look at all the evidence.
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#183580 - 05/08/17 01:23 AM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Mark Shipowick]
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
The study of astronomy ought to be encouraged. "The heavens declare the glory of God . . . " The night sky is one of the most valuable lesson books of nature and of the majesty and power of God. The Magi would, like the Jews, not have noticed the new star in the heavens heralding Christ's birth if they had not been accomplished astronomers. Have another look at what the sacred record says about the purposes of God in creating the heavenly bodies. smile

There is studying astronomy which is the study of the stars, galaxies, and space --
then there is astrology which also studies stars, constellation and their positions in the sky, etc.,.

The first is awesome and indeed shows the power and glory of God.
The second contains a lot of the eerie part filled with pagan and occult mystical stuff.
The distinction between the two are often blurred.
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#183582 - 05/08/17 03:03 AM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Mark Shipowick]
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
As far as I know there are no large scale pagan style monuments to the heavenly bodies that have been found in Israel or built by Jews to calculate or mark the seasons. There have always been apostate groups and movements among God's people so it is possible something like that could have been constructed. But if something like that was found say from the reign of the kings it wouldn't be wise to assume it was pagan or simply scientific, like a modern telescope, until we look at all the evidence.


Well there is the Rujm el-Hiri in the Golan Heights, not far from the sea of Galilee. Archeologists suggest it was built around 3000 B.C., so it was probably built soon after the flood, and before Israel occupied the territory.

According to one hypothesis, supported by a large part of the researchers, the site was used for special ceremonies during the longest and shortest days of the year. On the longest day, the first rays of the sun shone through the opening in the north-east gate. At the times of the two equinoxes, the sun's rays would pass between two rocks, 2m in height, 5m in width, at the eastern edge of the compound.
In our day --every year a group of "New Agers" gathers at the site on the summer solstice, and on the equinox, to view the first rays of the sun shine though the rocks.

The fascination with the solstice and equinoxes, was a very important part of sun worship.


However, we know from scripture they had a lot of "high places" for worshipping pagan gods in the OT. We also have accounts of certain kings, like Hezekiah, or Josiah, who tore down the high places.

Josiah "defiled the high places" by burning dead men’s bones upon them, as 2 Kings 23:14,16,20

That bit of Biblical information may (or may not) answer the questions of Rujm-el-Hiri. Rujm-el-Hiri has the evidence that it was an astrological devise, determining the solstice, and the equinox. But then there is also evidence that about 1000 years later it was used for the dead. So the arguments get into gear over what the Rujm-el-Hiri was used for.

However, if it was an observatory (along with a place for celebrating the solstice, and the equinox, in pagan sun worshipping manner, and used as such for 1000 years, then suddenly it seemed to become a place for the dead -- could it have been Josiah was working on "defiling" that place?
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#183589 - 05/08/17 05:52 PM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Mark Shipowick]
kland Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
The ancient Jews and oriental cultures were not as backward as we might think. Simple instruments have been found that were used for determining the equinox. The Jews have consistently been at the forefront of invention for millennia. Solomon's temple has never been equaled for architectural and artistic perfection. Some claim the best of Greek architecture was inspired by but dimly reflected it's magnificence and beauty.

I agree, that if one is established at a location, one can measure and mark the solstices, and then calculate a halfway point, align stones, and be able to tell the next year when the half-way point is. I get that.

But how would the Israelites wandering through the wilderness calculate a halfway point of the sun traveling north to south? If they had some instruments, are they not available today? For it would be fragile ground to travel saying that there's some mysterious instruments they used that we cannot have today.

Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
The study of astronomy ought to be encouraged. "The heavens declare the glory of God . . . " The night sky is one of the most valuable lesson books of nature and of the majesty and power of God. The Magi would, like the Jews, not have noticed the new star in the heavens heralding Christ's birth if they had not been accomplished astronomers. Have another look at what the sacred record says about the purposes of God in creating the heavenly bodies. smile
Declaring the glory of God and using stars to calculate a calendar, zodiac or otherwise, are two different things. As Dedication said, we must not blur the edges of the occult.

Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
As far as I know there are no large scale pagan style monuments to the heavenly bodies that have been found in Israel or built by Jews to calculate or mark the seasons. There have always been apostate groups and movements among God's people so it is possible something like that could have been constructed. But if something like that was found say from the reign of the kings it wouldn't be wise to assume it was pagan or simply scientific, like a modern telescope, until we look at all the evidence.
Not sure I'm following. Are there any scale of pagan or non-pagan monuments to heavenly bodies that have been found in Israel or built by Jews to calculate or mark the seasons?

This brings up the question even further, what are these "instruments" used by the Jews? Yes, I do express doubt, but yet I am very curious because I've searched several times and have not found any culture able to have any instruments other than permanent non-portable stones placed which could be calculated to produce an arbitrary mid-way point.
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#183886 - 05/30/17 10:42 AM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Mark Shipowick]
kland Offline
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Any luck in finding information on these instruments for determining the equinox?

And still, what do these verses mean to you?
Le 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Le 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

De 16:9 Seven weeks shalt thou number unto thee: begin to number the seven weeks from such time as thou beginnest to put the sickle to the corn.


No where does the Bible talk about the equinox.
But it does correlated the feasts to grain harvest.
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#183944 - 06/03/17 09:47 AM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: kland]
Mark Shipowick Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Any luck in finding information on these instruments for determining the equinox?


Yes. My original source was an archaeologist(s) who found them on site. I don't have the reference handy.

When the tabernacle was erected it was placed in an east-west direction. The ancients had the required technology to precisely align buildings to the four points of the compass. So from the erection of the tabernacle Israel had a means of determining the equinox. When the sun rose directly east so that its rays aligned with the center of the Holy and Most Holy, that day was the equinox.

The ancient Egyptians who had enslaved the Israelists were and still are renowned for the precision of the orientation of their pyramids. There is nothing occultic in the technology itself. It's the use of the technology.

Here's a link to a paper from NASA from the 1940's giving five different simple ways for school children to determine the equinox with a precision of a fraction of a day using a sheet of paper with a hole. It's a great example of the practical kind of education that used to be common in America and needs to be emulated in our families.
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#183945 - 06/03/17 10:14 AM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Mark Shipowick]
Mark Shipowick Offline
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For home schooler's here's an activity for your children. Have them pick an observation point on your property where they have a clear view of the eastern or western horizon. Pick an observation point that you can easily identify - (like the third post on your deck, the NW corner of your house etc) and pick an easy to identify point on the horizon or in the foreground that aligns with something that's as close to due east or west as possible using a magnetic compass or GPS. Take a picture of the horizon and mark the due eastern or western point on the photo. On the day of the equinox correct your observation by noting where on the photo the sun on that day rose or set relative to the same object you noted in the photo and from the same observation point. Now you know what due east and west is from the observation point and can tell when the equinox is from that point without any instruments. The disk of the sun will align exactly with that point on the horizon at every equinox.
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#183954 - 06/04/17 02:34 AM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Mark Shipowick]
dedication Online   content

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Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Originally Posted By: kland
Any luck in finding information on these instruments for determining the equinox?


Yes. My original source was an archaeologist(s) who found them on site. I don't have the reference handy.

When the tabernacle was erected it was placed in an east-west direction. The ancients had the required technology to precisely align buildings to the four points of the compass. So from the erection of the tabernacle Israel had a means of determining the equinox. When the sun rose directly east so that its rays aligned with the center of the Holy and Most Holy, that day was the equinox.

The ancient Egyptians who had enslaved the Israelists were and still are renowned for the precision of the orientation of their pyramids. There is nothing occultic in the technology itself. It's the use of the technology.

Here's a link to a paper from NASA from the 1940's giving five different simple ways for school children to determine the equinox with a precision of a fraction of a day using a sheet of paper with a hole. It's a great example of the practical kind of education that used to be common in America and needs to be emulated in our families.


Interesting.
And yes it is obvious that the ancients knew how to position buildings to determine the equinox.
Nor is there anything wrong with determining the time of the equinox.

The questions arise when this becomes a matter of religion.

There is also the question of whether the Israelites, who wandered in the wilderness, and thus did not set their tabernacle in any permanent place, but moved it every time they moved, would have been able or even required to set it up with exact compass precision in order to determine the equinox as that is never mentioned in scripture.

We do know there was a very organized system to setting up camp, --3 tribes east of tabernacle, -- 3 tribes north of tabernacle --3 tribes west of tabernacle --3 tribes south of tabernacle, etc.

But that was for organization -- not necessarily compass precision.

From what I understand the tabernacle was set up in the east/west position purposely so the people would NOT face the rising sun when they gathered at the door of the tabernacle, as the door was opened toward the east they turned their backs on the sun and turned their faces toward the true God.

Ezekiel 8:16 describes the abomination of priests turning their backs on the sanctuary and facing the rising sun for worship.

To face the sun meant to turn their backs on God, His sanctuary and the law.

Thus it would seem very odd for the sanctuary of God to be built so the sun would illuminate it's inside chambers on equinox, which was the very essence of sun worship.

The sanctuary was illuminated by the presence of God.

Originally Posted By: Waggonner
When the Lord showed the prophet Ezekiel the abominations committed by the priests in the temple, he said, "Thou shalt see greater abominations," and showed him the priests "with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east." Ezek. viii. 16. They had adopted this from the sun-worshipping nations about them. To guard against seeming to participate in this custom of turning toward the east, the tabernacle in the wilderness, and afterward the temple in Jerusalem, were set facing the east so that the priests administering before the Lord should face the west, with backs to the east. And when the children of the captivity were scattered among the sun-worshipping nations of the East they were to turn toward Jerusalem-to the west-in their worship. But the priests in Ezekiel's day had adopted the eastward position. {June 11, 1896 EJW, PTUK 384.7}
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#183962 - 06/04/17 10:39 AM Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Mark Shipowick]
Gary K Offline
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Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 397
Loc: Colville, Wa
dedication,

I agree with you. The real purpose for the alignment of the sanctuary was to turn the people, quite literally, away from the sun god when they worshiped the real God. It is a powerful symbolic gesture on God's part to have that done. It is quite significant psychologically to literally turn your back on a false god to worship the true God.


Edited by Gary K (06/04/17 10:39 AM)
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