I think the answer to whether or not God fails us is directly related to what we can legitimately expect from God.

So the question is "What has GOD SAID we can expect from Him?"
Simple as that.

Answer THAT question and we can proceed to determine if He has failed us or not.

We only have a short life here on this planet, and yes, as I quoted from scripture:
"your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" 1 Peter 5:8

It's not just a "characterization" it is a real battle.



How can we know something is spiritualism and satanic?
When it comes from spiritualistic sources --

Though Elle claims it as "her beliefs" it no more originated with her than evolution is original to the local science teacher.

I fear for Elle --
Now that we know she is battling a disease that has already claimed three of my own relatives, I realize she is fighting for her very life here on earth. I pray she will yet have many good years, but there is also a chance she may not.

Eternity hangs on her decisions that she makes, eternity is not something to take lightly. This life is NOTHING compared to eternity.



Are we simply to put out a "feel good" message?
Saying all roads lead to salvation, when they do NOT.

Rather tell them that yes, Jesus provided everything for our salvation. Trust in Him!
Cling to Him, abide in Him, let Him lift all the burden of sin from you, for He has already paid the wages they exact. Place all your cares upon Him for He cares for you, and will carry you through no matter what this earthly life may throw at you. Follow Him in humble, loving obedience.



Done that -- many posts have already discussed the issue. Many Bible texts presented.
But when language is changed and words no longer mean what words actually mean --- When clear Bible passages are allegorized into mystical interpretations--- It comes to a point where there is no more possibility for reasoning.

And yes, I've studied enough to know where these things are coming from. And yes, it is from sources that are not from God.
Satan is real and working with intense fury now, as time is coming to an end, to mislead, and destroy people.

Are we to simply sit back and not warn people.
Does no one care?


The reason many have left -- is that this is not a place where Adventists can really discuss the Bible and their beliefs anymore. It has become a place where Adventist beliefs tend to be attacked and/or "reconsidered" in attempted change. More often than not those sharing Adventist truths are portrayed as simple minded, no matter how much Biblical or other material one shares it is pushed aside as so much "unscholarly" trivial.


Many have left because they feel it is useless to share precious truths here and that God can use them to share the last message more effectively in other places.



And yes, I have found that those whose "theology is way off" are usually treated better than those who try to give a reason for their Adventist beliefs. I think it's because those who come here to change Adventist doctrines are not threatened by them, after all Elle and HC are also trying to change Adventist belief so they are no threat, its those of us who deeply believe, who the change agents see as a huge threat.

It would be far more profitable to
"count your blessings" and see what God has done,
rather than look at the problems in this life and think God has failed us.

It is a "state of mind" really.

Prosperity preachers are preaching a false doctrine. Don't listen to them for, unless you are financially prospering, you soon start to think God failed. But it is not the truth.

For a brief spell, as everyone in this thread was listing their "misfortunes", I started mentally listing mine --
Wow -- in no time I was in despondency thinking of all that I had lost over the years.

Then the Holy Spirit nudged me -- "what about the blessings"?
Count your blessings.

Psalms 05:1 O give thanks unto the LORD; call upon his name: make known his deeds among the people.
105:2 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him: talk ye of all his wondrous works.
105:3 Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
105:4 Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.

"The Lord is good!" He is very good!




Psalms 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

Psalms 28:7 The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him.

Psalms 30:11 Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness;
30:12 To the end that glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.


John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Will we let the tribulation separate us from God?
If this world's trouble separates us from God, it is not God that has left us, it is we that have left God.


Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

That is not necessarily insensitive, hurtful people! People should warn of such dangers out of love. It may sound hurtful and insensitive to the hearer, but, it is not.

So then, if you pray and ask and wait for something and it doesn't come as you expect; Is that God failing you? If God fails us; Can we trust Him to save us?

I believe these are fair questions in a thread such as this.

Amen dedication.

I will admit I have trouble understanding God at times. I still marvel at Abraham going to sacrifice Isaac when he knew for sure Isaac was the child of promise and that God forbids sacrificing of children. (Deut. 12:29-21 and Jer. 7:30-32) I would say human sacrifices all together.

Yet, Abraham took Isaac to sacrifice him at the mountain. Abraham still knew somehow it was God even though the command contradicted God's word! I still don't get it.

But, God didn't fail Abraham and He will not fail us. Amen!?!

This idea of "God failing us" is very pernicious. It is expressed in many ways too. God has failed to protect the Bible as it is no longer trustworthy. God failed with the Spirit of Prophecy writings as they are a tool of the devil. God fails us when we tell Him what we want and He doesn't give it to us. We have spiritual struggles so that is evidence of God's failure. God failed us because Biblical authors such as Paul and James wrote "wrongheaded" stuff. James was a "legalist" leading people away from faith in God.

All these things are is an expression of lack of faith in God. An infinitely wise God is to give us everything we ask for because what we want can't possibly be bad for us? We wander away from God due to lack of submission to Him, trust in His love and watch care over us, and because we do not spend the necessary time and effort working on our relationship with Him and that is God's fault? Our emotional ups and downs that come from living in a world of sin are God failing us?

I have been through hell-on-earth during my life time, but is that God's fault? Is He the one who made all my choices? Is He the one that inspired my family to reject me, and constantly emotionally abuse me during my formative years and even afterwards? Is He the one who inspired me to abuse drugs for years? God had nothing to do with all of that. He, in fact, has intervened in positive ways many times and in many ways throughout my lifetime. He kept me alive several times when I should have been severely injured or killed. He directly intervened when the devil came after me to claim me as his own.

For finite, mortal, immensely flawed beings to claim it is the fault of the infinitely intelligent, all fore-knowing, God of love when bad things happen in our lives is to make the same accusations that the devil has made against God ever since his rebellion started. What is that accusation? God didn't give me what I wanted so He is unfair and selfish.

What more could God have given us than His Son? I don't see how it is possible for Him to give us anything more valuable and more greatly needed than that. That we can look at that gift and then say God fails us is to me incomprehensible.

I understand the desire to blame God. Adam blamed God when he said "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me". But, the failure was all Adam's and it is the same with us in this life.

Dedication is right in saying that our experiences in this life now prepare us for the much harder experiences in the future. The Faith of Jesus is what the Bible calls that. And of course, it is the Holy Spirit that inspires us and leads us to the truth we need for these last days.

I 100% agree that Adam fell and he bare some level of responsibility in his fall. The same with the Israelites when they came out of Egypt....they bore some level of responsibility in their failure and they all died(except 2) in the dessert and did not enter the promise land.

Regardless, the New Covenant oath that God ALONE made is very Biblical and still stand. With the New Covenant Oath that God made, the responsibility to succeed no longer rest on our shoulder because the new covenant is a ONE WAY UNCONDITIONAL Covenant that God alone has made.

So if someone says that if we fail in our life time we will loose our salvation because we didn't hold our oath of the bargain.... that type of mindset or teachings comes from the OLD Covenant. It is very obvious that these people are teaching the "other gospel" by which history shows that no man can keep their part of their oath.

I find it very interesting that I've presented a very simple Biblical concept of the New Covenant that we all should know....and for some reason...that the New Covenant enters in the category of being an evil & false doctrine??? Beats me? When individuals come to the point of rejecting the most fundamental stone of our Salvation that God has laid for us in scriptures via His death that made Jesus the mediator of the New covenant(not the Old covenant), then for me there's no door for further discussion. I will leave you to continue your path with your Old Testament oath. All the best to you...I do hope you can do better than the Israelites.

Elle,

So in your view God controls all the choices we make? He causes us to not spend time with Him in study on prayer? He causes us to doubt Him? The reason I ask these questions is because they are implied by your belief.

It seems to me that you are very much blaming God for sin for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23 And since God is responsible, in your view, for our lapses of faith He is then the author of sin and temptation.

gary, elle resolves our lack of free will by believing that God will save everyone. Her favorite website is steeped in universalism. Satan is the author of sin and the idea of universalism. The New Covenant is indeed based on the promises of God only, but ignores the fact that God's love can be rejected. Yes, God wills all to be saved, that does not mean all will be saved. Universalism ultimately claims all men are righteous, no matter what they do for good will at last come out of evil.