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Re: Ping kland
[Re: ]
#184078
06/11/17 11:11 AM
06/11/17 11:11 AM
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SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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In one of your posts to me you claimed that "managed capitalism" is done successfully all over the world. I want you to point out the examples of what you consider to be economies that are successfully managed by government. I'm curious why you titled this, "ping kland". I know nothing of what you mean by "managed capitalism" nor of any reference I would have made to such. Any time economies are "managed" by the government, problems happen. Sounds more like socialism than anything to do with capitalism. Sorry about that, kland. My memory failed me. I thought it was you had had said to me that "managed capitalism" was a success throughout the world. And where did anybody say "managed capitalism worked throughout the world"? It has worked in a number of instances, namely China at this time as James Peterson has pointed out. There has never been an instance where Hayek's ideals were as successful. So, what do you say Gary K?
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Re: Ping kland
[Re: Alchemy]
#184084
06/11/17 04:17 PM
06/11/17 04:17 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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And where did anybody say "managed capitalism worked throughout the world"?
It has worked in a number of instances, namely China at this time as James Peterson has pointed out.
There has never been an instance where Hayek's ideals were as successful. So, what do you say Gary K?
You really think China is a good example? If it is then a per capita income of less than $8000/yr is being really prosperous, as that is what it was in 2015. During the same time frame the US per capita income was almost $56,000/yr. For documentation of this go to here: http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forum...4072#Post184072 .
Last edited by Gary K; 06/11/17 04:18 PM.
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Re: Ping kland
[Re: ]
#184091
06/12/17 07:12 AM
06/12/17 07:12 AM
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SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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And where did anybody say "managed capitalism worked throughout the world"?
It has worked in a number of instances, namely China at this time as James Peterson has pointed out.
There has never been an instance where Hayek's ideals were as successful. So, what do you say Gary K?
You really think China is a good example? If it is then a per capita income of less than $8000/yr is being really prosperous, as that is what it was in 2015. During the same time frame the US per capita income was almost $56,000/yr. For documentation of this go to here: http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forum...4072#Post184072 . That $8,000.00 a year is a huge increase from what it was 30 years ago! We know they have almost a billion people to help, but, they are the fastest growing economy in the world and have been for many years! With all these decades to consider, you only look at this one snapshot in time? Petty.
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Re: Ping kland
[Re: ]
#184093
06/12/17 12:59 PM
06/12/17 12:59 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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It reminds me that interest on checking has more than quadrupled recently!
Seems odd that we still don't make much off interest. Something about quadrupling nothing is still nothing.
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Re: Ping kland
[Re: Alchemy]
#184095
06/12/17 01:30 PM
06/12/17 01:30 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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And where did anybody say "managed capitalism worked throughout the world"?
It has worked in a number of instances, namely China at this time as James Peterson has pointed out.
There has never been an instance where Hayek's ideals were as successful. So, what do you say Gary K?
You really think China is a good example? If it is then a per capita income of less than $8000/yr is being really prosperous, as that is what it was in 2015. During the same time frame the US per capita income was almost $56,000/yr. For documentation of this go to here: http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forum...4072#Post184072 . That $8,000.00 a year is a huge increase from what it was 30 years ago! We know they have almost a billion people to help, but, they are the fastest growing economy in the world and have been for many years! With all these decades to consider, you only look at this one snapshot in time? Petty. LOL. It is you that is looking at only a snapshot in time. Did you fail to notice all those years of flat line economic growth, or should I say of lack of growth? You know, all those years of rigid centralized control of the Chinese economy? Did you purposely ignore the fact that only as the Chinese people have been allowed more freedom to act on their own in economic terms that their economy has finally started to grow? Did you purposely ignore the fact that their economy is teetering on the brink of a major depression because of how the government is still manipulating the money supply and indulging in lots of deficit spending? You know, all those tenets of Keynesian economics. I have some examples of how when the principles taught by Austrian economics have been followed that economic problems have been solved, but until I can remember where to find the exact numbers and the countries involved I am not going to post them because I want to be completely accurate. I've just read so much material on economics, around 100 books, in the last 10 years it is difficult to remember the source for those specific instances.
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Re: Ping kland
[Re: ]
#184096
06/12/17 01:50 PM
06/12/17 01:50 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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kland,
The reason for governments not following the principles of Austrian economics is simple to understand. Politicians get into politics to have power. If the principles of Austrian economics were followed it would greatly reduce the amount of power politicians have, and it would stop them from buying votes using other people's money.
Have you never seen the following quote? The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
That quote is exactly what is going on in the US, and other socialized nations. It is politicians building their power upon the base of buying votes with other people's money. You cannot have that if the principles of the school of Austrian economics is followed.
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Re: Ping kland
[Re: ]
#184098
06/13/17 12:32 AM
06/13/17 12:32 AM
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SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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kland,
The reason for governments not following the principles of Austrian economics is simple to understand. Politicians get into politics to have power. If the principles of Austrian economics were followed it would greatly reduce the amount of power politicians have, and it would stop them from buying votes using other people's money.
Have you never seen the following quote? The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
That quote is exactly what is going on in the US, and other socialized nations. It is politicians building their power upon the base of buying votes with other people's money. You cannot have that if the principles of the school of Austrian economics is followed. We can never have that regardless of what economic principles we use! That is always deceitful and abusive for any government to practice. So then, speaking of Austrian ideals; What do we do with all the currencies that would probably develop throughout the nation? Can any of us create and sell our own currency?
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Re: Ping kland
[Re: Alchemy]
#184112
06/13/17 05:44 PM
06/13/17 05:44 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
|
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
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kland,
The reason for governments not following the principles of Austrian economics is simple to understand. Politicians get into politics to have power. If the principles of Austrian economics were followed it would greatly reduce the amount of power politicians have, and it would stop them from buying votes using other people's money.
Have you never seen the following quote? The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
That quote is exactly what is going on in the US, and other socialized nations. It is politicians building their power upon the base of buying votes with other people's money. You cannot have that if the principles of the school of Austrian economics is followed. We can never have that regardless of what economic principles we use! That is always deceitful and abusive for any government to practice.
So then, speaking of Austrian ideals; What do we do with all the currencies that would probably develop throughout the nation? Can any of us create and sell our own currency? Are you telling me that you have never listened to a politician promise voters what he is going to "do" for them? How they are going to give "free" education, "free" healthcare, how they are going to subsidize housing, the cost of energy, etc...? None of those things can ever be free. Someone always pays for them. And who pays for them? The taxpayer. Socialism is one big con game. Do you know that during the greatest period of growth in an economy the world has ever seen, the colonial days of the US until the end of the 19th century, most banks were private institutions and many had their own money? The free market set the price of one bank's money against another bank's money. That was based upon the financial stability of each bank. There wasn't even a central US bank: no Federal Reserve. It was the creation of that by the US Senate which deliberately gave itself no oversight over the Federal Reserve, that has been the cause of most of the economic issues the US has faced sine then. It is the fractional reserve policy guarantees inflation. It is the willy nilly printing of money and the playing with interest rates that in the long term guarantees financial instability and allows the incredible amount of financial fraud to take place. It is the Federal Reserve that runs up market prices and then creates crashes by selling off their over-priced assets, thus transferring incredible amounts of wealth away from private citizens. For documentation of this watch the interview at the following link of a financial expert in the markets. http://usawatchdog.com/market-crash-and-civil-war-possible-gregory-mannarino/Gregory Mannarino is not the only person saying these things. Many of the US's top independent financial experts are saying the same thing. Mannarino comes across as incredibly arrogant but at the same time he really understands the markets. Here is another really good link on what is going on. http://usawatchdog.com/bitcoin-gold-form-two-front-war-with-central-banks-andy-hoffman/You will hear about a PPT, or Plunge Protection Team, created by the government. It is another manipulator of the markets. Oh, the government tells us that it is really for our protection, but in effect what it does is stop massive selloffs and attempt to lock in that wealth transfer away from private citizens. They lock the barn door after the horse has bolted.
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Re: Ping kland
[Re: ]
#184125
06/14/17 01:45 PM
06/14/17 01:45 PM
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SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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|
kland,
The reason for governments not following the principles of Austrian economics is simple to understand. Politicians get into politics to have power. If the principles of Austrian economics were followed it would greatly reduce the amount of power politicians have, and it would stop them from buying votes using other people's money.
Have you never seen the following quote? The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
That quote is exactly what is going on in the US, and other socialized nations. It is politicians building their power upon the base of buying votes with other people's money. You cannot have that if the principles of the school of Austrian economics is followed. We can never have that regardless of what economic principles we use! That is always deceitful and abusive for any government to practice.
So then, speaking of Austrian ideals; What do we do with all the currencies that would probably develop throughout the nation? Can any of us create and sell our own currency? Are you telling me that you have never listened to a politician promise voters what he is going to "do" for them? How they are going to give "free" education, "free" healthcare, how they are going to subsidize housing, the cost of energy, etc...? None of those things can ever be free. Someone always pays for them. And who pays for them? The taxpayer. Socialism is one big con game. Do you know that during the greatest period of growth in an economy the world has ever seen, the colonial days of the US until the end of the 19th century, most banks were private institutions and many had their own money? The free market set the price of one bank's money against another bank's money. That was based upon the financial stability of each bank. There wasn't even a central US bank: no Federal Reserve. It was the creation of that by the US Senate which deliberately gave itself no oversight over the Federal Reserve, that has been the cause of most of the economic issues the US has faced sine then. It is the fractional reserve policy guarantees inflation. It is the willy nilly printing of money and the playing with interest rates that in the long term guarantees financial instability and allows the incredible amount of financial fraud to take place. It is the Federal Reserve that runs up market prices and then creates crashes by selling off their over-priced assets, thus transferring incredible amounts of wealth away from private citizens. For documentation of this watch the interview at the following link of a financial expert in the markets. http://usawatchdog.com/market-crash-and-civil-war-possible-gregory-mannarino/Gregory Mannarino is not the only person saying these things. Many of the US's top independent financial experts are saying the same thing. Mannarino comes across as incredibly arrogant but at the same time he really understands the markets. Here is another really good link on what is going on. http://usawatchdog.com/bitcoin-gold-form-two-front-war-with-central-banks-andy-hoffman/You will hear about a PPT, or Plunge Protection Team, created by the government. It is another manipulator of the markets. Oh, the government tells us that it is really for our protection, but in effect what it does is stop massive selloffs and attempt to lock in that wealth transfer away from private citizens. They lock the barn door after the horse has bolted. We had two central banks in the 1800's before the Federal Reserve; The First Bank of the United States and The Second Bank of the United States. Both ended when the Congress refused to renew there charters at there 20 year renewal point.
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Re: Ping kland
[Re: Alchemy]
#184126
06/14/17 05:13 PM
06/14/17 05:13 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
|
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
|
|
kland,
The reason for governments not following the principles of Austrian economics is simple to understand. Politicians get into politics to have power. If the principles of Austrian economics were followed it would greatly reduce the amount of power politicians have, and it would stop them from buying votes using other people's money.
Have you never seen the following quote? The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
That quote is exactly what is going on in the US, and other socialized nations. It is politicians building their power upon the base of buying votes with other people's money. You cannot have that if the principles of the school of Austrian economics is followed. We can never have that regardless of what economic principles we use! That is always deceitful and abusive for any government to practice.
So then, speaking of Austrian ideals; What do we do with all the currencies that would probably develop throughout the nation? Can any of us create and sell our own currency? Are you telling me that you have never listened to a politician promise voters what he is going to "do" for them? How they are going to give "free" education, "free" healthcare, how they are going to subsidize housing, the cost of energy, etc...? None of those things can ever be free. Someone always pays for them. And who pays for them? The taxpayer. Socialism is one big con game. Do you know that during the greatest period of growth in an economy the world has ever seen, the colonial days of the US until the end of the 19th century, most banks were private institutions and many had their own money? The free market set the price of one bank's money against another bank's money. That was based upon the financial stability of each bank. There wasn't even a central US bank: no Federal Reserve. It was the creation of that by the US Senate which deliberately gave itself no oversight over the Federal Reserve, that has been the cause of most of the economic issues the US has faced sine then. It is the fractional reserve policy guarantees inflation. It is the willy nilly printing of money and the playing with interest rates that in the long term guarantees financial instability and allows the incredible amount of financial fraud to take place. It is the Federal Reserve that runs up market prices and then creates crashes by selling off their over-priced assets, thus transferring incredible amounts of wealth away from private citizens. For documentation of this watch the interview at the following link of a financial expert in the markets. http://usawatchdog.com/market-crash-and-civil-war-possible-gregory-mannarino/Gregory Mannarino is not the only person saying these things. Many of the US's top independent financial experts are saying the same thing. Mannarino comes across as incredibly arrogant but at the same time he really understands the markets. Here is another really good link on what is going on. http://usawatchdog.com/bitcoin-gold-form-two-front-war-with-central-banks-andy-hoffman/You will hear about a PPT, or Plunge Protection Team, created by the government. It is another manipulator of the markets. Oh, the government tells us that it is really for our protection, but in effect what it does is stop massive selloffs and attempt to lock in that wealth transfer away from private citizens. They lock the barn door after the horse has bolted. We had two central banks in the 1800's before the Federal Reserve; The First Bank of the United States and The Second Bank of the United States. Both ended when the Congress refused to renew there charters at there 20 year renewal point. These banks did not, as the Federal Reserve does now, set monetary policy for all banks within the US, in other words, control all banking within the borders of the US. Yes, they influenced it, but not like they do today. Essentially all they did was become banks for the Federal government and issue government debt. They were clearinghouses for all government business. Even at that they were utter failures as they created massive inflation by their great expansion of debt and fiat currency. They were the brain child of Alexander Hamilton, and his adventures into the economic school of mercantilism, which has long since been repudiated as a working economic model, but which was incorporated by Keynes into General Theory. That their charters were not renewed at the end of their first terms shows just how much damage they did to the US in their short terms of existence. They were not, and I repeat, not, the equivalent of what we know as central banks today which control all banking within national borders. I would recommend a book to you, A History of Money and Banking in the United States. It shows just how damaging these first attempts at a fully centralized bank were, at how they enforced boom-and-bust upon the US even at the reduced level, compared to today's Federal Reserve, at which they operated. I do need to clear up one thing here. When I said the US had a lassez faire economy and didn't interfere with business was that the government wasn't into business regulation as it was after the 1890's and onward. That the US government tried to manipulate the currency and spectacularly failed every time it did so is to me a separate issue, even if that currency manipulation affected the business climate every time they have tried it. Sorry for the miscommunication.
Last edited by Gary K; 06/14/17 05:15 PM.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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