No need for God's people to fear "judgment in any way because. The pre-Advent judgment is in favor of the saints:

'As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom'" (verses 21, 22, N.I.V.).

This translation is slightly different from the King James Version, which reads: "judgment was given to the saints of the most High." Brown, Driver, and Briggs render this phrase: "Judgment was given in favor of."

For 1260 years the saints had been persecuted, condemned, and slain under the dominion of the apostate power of the "little horn," which claimed to stand in the place of God, with the right to forgive sins and to decide cases for right or wrong.

The judgment of the church on earth had gone against them all these years. At last the record is to be put straight. The pre-Advent judgment will reverse the judgment against them by the antichrist and his earthly agents.

This judgment rendered by the heavenly tribunal cannot be called into question. It is the only true court of appeal; God's judgment in and from the heavenly sanctuary will reveal who the true saints are.

Once that judgment has been completed, the text declares: " 'The time came when they possessed the kingdom'" (verse 22, N.I.V.). And when do the saints possess the kingdom?

Those 4 questions are very relevant to the subject of this thread.

Unfortunately I do not share that view, but simply see it as a second attempt to de-rail the discussion.

I agree with Nadi, this belongs in a separate topic, perhaps something along the lines of "The Great Controversy?" Perhaps the person asking these questions could help us out with a little more explanation on why these questions are being proposed here?

If that is so; perhaps you can lead the way and answer them, as well as explain better this statement?

Hi Nadi; I thought it might be helpful for you to see the "official" view point on "The Investigative Judgment." Sometimes called The PreAdvent Judgment. When you have a chance to read it and think about it, then maybe we could answer more specific questions you might have about it? This is taken from the 27 Fundamental beliefs book. There is now, a similar book out with 28 fundamentals listed.

There is more explanation of this in the book, but they do make the point that what I have quoted here is the only part that is "official." I hope this helps.

Thanks for posting that, Wanderer. I have read this before but do not have a copy with me at this time.

Give me a little time to unpack it and demonstrate the kind of support I would consider adequate for a doctrine such as this.

That sounds good. Take your time. There's no rush on my end. I will say one more brief comment. This doctrine appealed to me quite a bit when I first became a Christian. Out of all the possible doctrines that might have convinced me to be baptized and commit myself to God, this was the one that did it. That being said, I am totally in support of people asking questions, but I will not fight or argue about it. Its just something i found very helpful, and I will share what I know.

We need to look at all scripture (but of course we can't quote all scripture in any one post, that's the frustrating part) but
that is the only way the whole subject of the sanctuary really shines forth as truth.

As to this "evil"-- who is responsible?

How do you balance your texts with these texts?

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Psalms 145:17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.

Anyone who says God works or does evil is basically saying God is not holy. Thus of course we wouldn't have any call to be holy either.
That of course is Satan's lie, so how does scripture reconcile this?


God did NOT create sin, God created perfect intelligent beings, with the capacity to love, praise, think, understand, and choose. There were no calamities, sickness, etc. etc. in the perfection of God's finished creation.

Scripture says of all God's creation:

Gen. 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.


Sin challenged God's righteous government?
Sin is rebellion against God's moral law?
Sin is evil and totally messes up God's perfect creation.
The whole mess the human race is in is due to the rejection of God's righteous government which is based upon His moral law.

That is the whole controversy.

In Isaiah 14 we read that -- A highly exalted created being allowed little thoughts to grow in his mind -- he began to think he was too bright and brilliant to subject himself to God's government, he would establish his form of government above God's government.

God is all powerful -- He could have wiped the rebellion out right at the start. He could stop all evil in an instant -- or allow the evil doers to exercise their will.

If you really read your scriptures you will find a God who wants people to LOVE Him and serve Him, not because they HAVE to, but because the WANT to.
Remember the verse "IF YOU LOVE ME, keep my commandments" (John 14:15)
In other words -- the "love me" comes first, obedience joyfully follows.

But in a perfect world -- the heavenly hosts had never experienced a life outside of God's will --
-- that doubting angel began planting doubts in their perfect minds.
-- "did God tell you to do this, or not do that -- God knows that if you disobey you will be like him -- you're will be elevated to new heights! (See Gen 3:1-5 for a sample of satan's method of placing doubts about God in unsuspecting minds)

If God had simply put an end to it then and there -- would the created beings have obeyed Him because they loved Him and loved His righteous, holy ways, or would they have served only out of duty or fear?

Earth thus became a "theater" so to speak.
God says -- OK let's just see where this "new government" (the freedom from God's law) style leads.

Thus created beings who thought they were "smarter" than God (who like Lucifer want to set their thrones above God's throne Is 14) were allowed to show what the results would be.

What most don't realize is just how much God has RESTRAINED evil, so that life is still somewhat bearable on this earth,
where the "prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience" (Eph 2:3)stakes out his claims.

Just read the book of Isaiah, especially the chapters 40 and onward -- how God is pleading with his people to look to Him, He alone is the source of salvation and hope, why do they turn away and go after to those stupid idols and their rebellious ways? Time and again they turned away from God, and God allowed their enemies to harass them, then they would cry unto the LORD, and He would raise up a deliverer and deliver them, but no sooner were things going well, and they turned away from God, and the cycle went on and on ever spiraling downward. (see Psalms 106-107).
People today are no different. Why can't people see the goodness of God and the deceitful poison of sin?
Instead they tend to blame God for the mess that sin has made.

The investigative judgment -- that judgment at which the entire heavenly host is a witness (See Daniel 7) is allowed to view the situation in it's true light, before God executes any final judgment. God's patient dealings working to draw people to Himself -- to LIFE! vs the workings of sin and the resulting damage to emotional, mental and physical well being which this rejection of the only One who can save, brings! All fully are opened.

God will not put an end to sin until all realize the truth of the matter-- and the justice, as well as holiness, and righteousness of God in all His works.
Those who want God's blessings and protection, just so they can continue to live a life of rebellion against God's will and moral laws -- would never be happy or even be able to live in God's presence.

Those who are saved, and cleansed by Christ's blood, will without a shadow of a doubt know and rejoice that God's ways are great, awesome, wonderful and that's the way they WANT to live, they LOVE HIM, and long to be in fellowship with HIM, forever. They will know that in Him there is NO DARKNESS at all.
The scriptures are full of texts of praise from those who contemplate God's holiness.

So yes -- the IJ is an integral part, and is both biblical as well as making sense in bringing the controversy to an end.

To tack onto what dedication said above, if Isaiah 45:7 is meant to be taken in the literal sense that God actually created evil then James 1:13 is a lie, for James said, God tempts no man.

The only way these two verses can be harmonized is to understand that God is taking the responsibility for evil because He gave us the power of choice, and with the power of choice came the possibility of evil. In that way, and that way alone, can God be said to have created evil.