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Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
#184691
07/28/17 03:38 PM
07/28/17 03:38 PM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,430
Canada
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Sarah MacDonald July 14 2017 2:30 AM One of Pope Francis's closest advisers has warned that "a strict separation of Church and State will never work" and has appealed for greater co-operation between the two going forward. Speaking to journalists in Limerick ahead of addressing the conference, 'Let's Talk Family: Let's Be Family', Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Vienna said he could not comment on Archbishop Diarmuid Martin's concerns over possible growing hostility between the Church and State.
The Cardinal, who is one of Pope Francis's special advisory Council of Nine, said that in Austria, Church-State relations had benefited from dialogue.
"After the drama of National Socialism and World War II" Austria sought to foster a "free Church in a free State" where the State was free and the Church was free, he explained. "The model of strict separation has never worked and the model of confusing state, religion and politics has always been very problematic," he said.
"We do not want confusion between politics and religion." (Reported in "Irish News")
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Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
[Re: dedication]
#184708
07/30/17 07:16 AM
07/30/17 07:16 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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All this means is that we should pray for pope Francis. Would it not be a coup for God to win over Francis? He has done it before with a king of old Babylon!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
[Re: dedication]
#184720
07/31/17 02:51 PM
07/31/17 02:51 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
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Yes, that's one thing in the great controversy that changes things: The Human Factor. While some thwart the scheme through their own greed, others are converted!
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Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
[Re: dedication]
#184734
08/01/17 07:42 AM
08/01/17 07:42 AM
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SDA Active Member 2018
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Asia
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Separation of church and state works great when it is understood and practiced properly. So, what is properly?
In Zorach v. Clauson 1952, Justice William O. Douglas writing for the majority said this;
"We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being....When the state encourages religious instruction or cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it follows the best of our traditions. For it then respects the religious nature of our people and accommodates the public service to their spiritual needs."
This was the proper understanding until 1960. So much for stare decisis.
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Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
[Re: dedication]
#184833
08/07/17 06:03 PM
08/07/17 06:03 PM
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OP
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Indeed -- pray!!! We need to pray most earnestly for we are facing very serious times!
Things are shaping up so fast I can't see how anyone can still doubt the accuracy of what was foretold would happen in the time of the end.
Fifty years ago, people still scoffed that it could happen. But it is happening NOW!
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Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
[Re: dedication]
#184834
08/07/17 06:55 PM
08/07/17 06:55 PM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Pope condemns Religious Right See article in US NEWS[ The Rev. Antonio Spadaro, editor of the influential Jesuit journal La Civilta Cattolica, said a shared desire for political influence between "evangelical fundamentalists" and some Catholics has inspired an "ecumenism of conflict" that demonizes opponents and promotes a "theocratic type of state." "Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Romish Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time, seeing that the Protestant churches are paying her homage." Yes, following the blue print set out by Jesuits in the book, "Unity of the churches", the first goal was to encourage the churches to set aside their doctrines and all work together -- ecumenicalism was a big focus. Not actually uniting, maintaining their individual structure, yet not worrying about doctrines that divide, working together. But in that plan -- was always the goal that the papacy would end up on top! So now the protestant world, largely divested of their fundamental doctrines, looking to the Catholic world as a bonafide member of the Christian community, and the pope as great world leader in Christian principles, are being told to back off from seeking political control. Why? Because Trump is calling on some fundamental Christian principles to change things that are not according to the Papal agenda! Yet, the very acts of papal activities and pronouncements and politically active bishops who are VERY MUCH involved in political affairs is an outright lie to the seemingly "don't get involved in politics" message of the pope. What is written between the lines here -- A shared desire for political influence between "evangelical fundamentalists" and Catholics inspires an "ecumenism of conflict" Is a power that hates separation of church and state, pretending to be the champion of freedom, in order to prevent any other than their own agenda to prevail?
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Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
[Re: dedication]
#184835
08/07/17 07:16 PM
08/07/17 07:16 PM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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On the other side of the coin ---
There is quite a movement among Pentecostal groups, fueled by Jim Bakker's TV programs, and Jeremiah Johnson's prophecies.
They formed the "POTUS Shield", a network of Pentecostal leaders devoted to helping Trump bring about the reign of God in America and the world.
Guess the pope doesn't want them interfering with His agenda.
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Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
[Re: dedication]
#184838
08/07/17 07:47 PM
08/07/17 07:47 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Western, USA
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The hallmark of Romanism is the lack of religious freedom. Are we seeing elements of the same in the SDA church today?
Those who are enjoined to represent the attributes of the Lord's character, step from the Bible platform, and in their own human judgment devise rules and resolutions to force the will of others. The devisings for forcing men to follow the prescriptions of other men are instituting an order of things that overrides sympathy and tender compassion, that blinds the eyes to mercy, justice, and the love of God. Moral influence and personal responsibility are trodden underfoot. {TM 363.1}
The righteousness of Christ by faith has been ignored by some; for it is contrary to their spirit and their whole life experience. Rule, rule, has been their course of action. Satan has had an opportunity of representing himself. When one who professes to be a representative of Christ engages in sharp dealing and in pressing men into hard places, those who are thus oppressed will either break every fetter of restraint, or they will be led to regard God as a hard master. They cherish hard feelings against God, and the soul is alienated from Him, just as Satan planned it should be. {TM 363.2}
This hardheartedness on the part of men who claim to believe the truth Satan charges to the influence of the truth itself, and thus men become disgusted and turn from the truth. For this reason no man should have a responsible connection with our institutions who thinks it no important matter whether he has a heart of flesh or a heart of steel. {TM 363.3}
Men think they are representing the justice of God, but they do not represent His tenderness and the great love wherewith He has loved us. Their human invention originating with the specious devices of Satan, appears fair enough to the blinded eyes of men, because it is inherent in their nature. A lie, believed, practiced, becomes a truth to them. Thus the purpose of the satanic agencies is accomplished, that men should reach these conclusions through the working of their own inventive minds. {TM 363.4}
What does Christ tell us to do? To rule over our fellow church members? NO. All we are supposed to do is "abide in Him".
I like what HMS Richard's Sr. said about what the Adventist Message really is, it is: "Jesus Only".
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
[Re: APL]
#184845
08/07/17 08:58 PM
08/07/17 08:58 PM
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OP
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The hallmark of Romanism is the lack of religious freedom. Are we seeing elements of the same in the SDA church today?
Do you have proof that Adventists are entering politics to enforce religious principles?
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Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work
[Re: dedication]
#184849
08/07/17 10:17 PM
08/07/17 10:17 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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DEDICATION - - The structure in the church is very political and there are those in the church trying to force their view even to the point of threatening others to take away their livelihood. It does not have to necessarily be outside the church to follow in the path of Romanism. Suppression of religious freedom can start at home.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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