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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: Daryl] #186570
05/03/18 08:27 PM
05/03/18 08:27 PM
K
kland  Offline
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I agree that the heavenly sanctuary is the most holy compared to the earthly sanctuary. But I was cluing in on where it said "once every year" and "once" and "every year", it seems to be talking of the day of atonement to me. Is that not right?

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: Daryl] #186592
05/06/18 05:06 AM
05/06/18 05:06 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Not necessarily, both the daily and the yearly services had sacrifices.

The verses are speaking of BOTH apartments of the earthly sanctuary. It's speaking of BOTH the daily (9:6) and the yearly services (9:7).

The author (probably Paul) even mentions that he is not speaking particularly in any detail concerning the Most Holy Place at that time. (see 9:5)

Thus when Christ entered the heavenly Holy Places (heavenly sanctuary) once and for all, He took His "once and for all sacrifice" which was more than adequate for ALL the services both in the holy place and the most holy place.

His ONE sacrifice is sufficient for all the "daily" and the "day of atonement" ministrations.



Quote:
9:1 Now we realize the first covenant had ordinances of divine service, and an earthly sanctuary.

9:2 For there was a tabernacle built; in the first part there was the candlestick, and the table with the shewbread; which is called the holy.
9:3 Then there was the second veil in the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, which contained the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
9:5 And over it stood the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; but we cannot now speak particularly of this.

9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went daily into the first part of the tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people.

9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holy places was not yet made manifest, while the first tabernacle (the earthly one) was yet standing:
9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
9:10 That tabernacle stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation
.
9:11 But Christ becoming an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, one not made with hands, that is to say, not of this (earthly) building;
9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy places, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: JAK] #186605
05/07/18 10:01 PM
05/07/18 10:01 PM
K
kland  Offline
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You are probably right. Christ entered once the holy place, meaning the temple whole, not any particular apartment.


Originally Posted By: dedication
The author (probably Paul) even mentions that he is not speaking particularly in any detail concerning the Most Holy Place at that time. (see 9:5)

But I disagree here. "This", other versions "these things". Which things? 9:2 the first part, 9:3, the second part. These things mean both things, but he isn't particularly speaking of this, but of Christ entering once the heavenly sanctuary with His blood.

Originally Posted By: JAK
Originally Posted By: kland
So according to Hebrews, it appears that Jesus entered the most holy place at His death, not in 1844?

Exactly.
I'm not sure where you stand on SDA/EGW theology, but a straight-forward reading of the Bible and Hebrews will immediately put an end to this "wind of doctrine" called the Investigative Judgement.
So JAK, in light of what Dedication wrote, what do you think, how is the author not writing of entering once the sanctuary as a whole?

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: dedication] #186616
05/08/18 10:57 PM
05/08/18 10:57 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Not necessarily, both the daily and the yearly services had sacrifices.

The verses are speaking of BOTH apartments of the earthly sanctuary. It's speaking of BOTH the daily (9:6) and the yearly services (9:7).

The author (probably Paul) even mentions that he is not speaking particularly in any detail concerning the Most Holy Place at that time. (see 9:5)

Thus when Christ entered the heavenly Holy Places (heavenly sanctuary) once and for all, He took His "once and for all sacrifice" which was more than adequate for ALL the services both in the holy place and the most holy place.

His ONE sacrifice is sufficient for all the "daily" and the "day of atonement" ministrations.

  • That is not true at all. In "once for all", the word "all" is not all services, but all who come to Christ. Heb. 9:15 says, "And for this reason [Jesus Christ] is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance."

    If His death was "for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant", then all the transgressions before Calvary were effectively wiped away on that day. For which reason, "those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance." And so the sanctuary was cleansed, i.e. atonement was effectively made through the precious blood of the Christ.

    Originally Posted By: Rev. 12:10-11
    Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

     
  • Secondly, in Lev. 16, on the Day of Atonement, the High Priest took the blood of sacrifice and went straight into the Most Holy Place directly. And from there, i.e. STARTING FROM within the Most Holy Place, he sprinkled the blood of atonement throughout the sanctuary and onto the alter of sacrifice outside. Heb. 12:13-14 says, "For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" AND THAT WAS SO SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY AD.

    It was NOT the high priest's responsibility to examine any life records. That rested with the people themselves to contemplate their lives throughout the past year and repent. Also, he did NOT linger in the first apartment saying, "I need to remain here for a while and fiddle around with the showbread and the candlesticks with this bowl of blood in my hands."

    Only SDA have invented that weird idea that Christ needed to remain outside the Most Holy Place until October 22, 1844. But the typical service proves them wrong in more ways than one.
///
 

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: Daryl] #186625
05/10/18 11:08 PM
05/10/18 11:08 PM
K
kland  Offline
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James, speak on how in the earthly sanctuary the high priest ministered in the first apartment for most of the year/time and then at the end, he ministered in the second apartment. If at Christ's death He entered the sanctuary as a whole, at what point, how long of time before He moved from the one apartment to the other?

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: Daryl] #186626
05/10/18 11:16 PM
05/10/18 11:16 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Posts: 6,425
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Thursday's:
Quote:
Though exact details are blurred in history, we do know that under papal Rome the seventh-day Sabbath was replaced by the tradition of Sunday keeping, a tradition so firmly entrenched that the Protestant Reformation kept that tradition alive, even into the twenty-first century. Today most Protestants still keep the first day of the week, rather than following the biblical command for the seventh day.
Today most Protestants, and some Adventists around Tonga, still keep the first day of the week, rather than following the biblical command for the seventh day.

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: kland] #186628
05/11/18 05:52 PM
05/11/18 05:52 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
James, speak on how in the earthly sanctuary the high priest ministered in the first apartment for most of the year/time and then at the end, he ministered in the second apartment. If at Christ's death He entered the sanctuary as a whole, at what point, how long of time before He moved from the one apartment to the other?

  • Heb. 7:26-28 ...

    For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
+++++++

The High Priest makes a sacrifice for himself and the people only on one day, and one day only: the Day of Atonement. And since Christ, as High Priest, made such sacrifice through his death, and did so once for all, it is obvious that "Calvary" was the Great Day of Atonement. Mark 15:37-38 says, "[When] Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed His last ... the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom." As Mat. 27:50-51 also says, "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom ..."

All the ministrations of all the priests in all the history of the earthly tabernacle came abruptly to the end on Calvary. In heaven, there is no animal sacrifice, no showbread, no wine, no oil and menorah for light in a dark sanctuary, no altar of incense. Those things were symbolic of something far greater: the eternal priesthood of Christ on our behalf before God, with God, for God, as God.

AND THAT WAS SO SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY AD. Atonement was made between heaven and earth at Calvary. The promise to anyone who would be believe was ratified and since then, eternal life was made available to us. That's THE GOSPEL, THE GOOD NEWS of salvation.

As the torch was passed to us, so we tell the world until Christ returns.

///

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: Daryl] #186632
05/12/18 06:05 PM
05/12/18 06:05 PM
J
Josh M  Offline
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Regular Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 63
Colorado, USA
While it's true that Jesus, by one sacrifice, fulfilled all of the requirements of the law against sin and as you correctly said at that time ratified what had been by promise, we can't conflate the Passover and the Day of Atonement into one day.

The annual holy days that were fulfilled during the events of the New Testament were fulfilled on their respective days. The fulfillment of Passover was of course on Passover. Jesus, "the firstfruits of them that slept", presented Himself and those that came out of the tombs on the day of the resurrection, which was also the holy day of First Fruits. Then the receiving of the Holy Spirit, through which the law is written on hearts, happened on Pentecost, just as Moses had received the law in tables of stone on that day in ancient times.

The Day of Atonement needed to also be fulfilled on its actual day and in regard to its specific significance.

The day was not just for the people, but also for the sanctuary, to "make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins..." "And he shall go out unto the altar that is before the LORD, and make an atonement for it..." (Lev 16:16,18)

All through the year the sins of the people were being presented in the sanctuary by blood standing on their behalf, but the sins remained on record. God here signified that the sanctuary itself still needed "reconciling" (Lev 16:20) because of those sins, and that it was "on that day" that there would be "an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD." (Lev 16:30)

Because it's not necessary for Jesus to sacrifice again for each activity of the high priest on each day, we don't need to view Jesus as needing to perform all of the activities of the high priest immediately at the crucifixion. After all, the event of Pentecost wasn't until several weeks later. It's then not necessary to regard the Passover of the crucifixion as the Day of Atonement. The one sacrifice of Jesus permanently qualified Him to perform the activities of the high priest by His own virtue.

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: Daryl] #186717
05/26/18 01:45 AM
05/26/18 01:45 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Posts: 25,121
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We will be discussing the following lesson study in our various churches tomorrow on "Worship the Creator":

http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/18b/less08.html


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2018 - Preparation for the End Time [Re: Daryl] #186718
05/26/18 01:48 AM
05/26/18 01:48 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian
OP
Site Administrator
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
As the Memory Text indicates, we are looking at the present truth regarding "the everlasting gospel":

Memory Text:
“Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth — to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people” (Revelation 14:6, NKJV).

What is "the everlasting gospel"?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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