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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: dedication]
#188094
12/17/18 01:03 PM
12/17/18 01:03 PM
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OP
SDA
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"One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the
Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.
They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested."
After San Antonio the Fundamental Belief reads:
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and
provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. One of the big differences is this-- The first makes EGW's writings the "continuing and authoritative source of truth". It places her writings on par with scripture. The second places her writings in the correct prospective -- as "prophetic authority" taking their place in prophetic progression of earth's history. And yes "we believe" Why -- because we have studied scripture and see her writings as illuminating scriptural truths for these last days. But every person must find that to be true by first seeing that truth from scripture, and recognizing it in her writings, not by blindly accepting it because someone said it was fact. Immanent vs soon True Immanent does have the meaning of something hanging right over our heads, ready to drop any minute. While "soon" means "in a short while" "in the near future". In a sense the word "immanent" has been overworked and done the job of keeping people "reined up" until it has lost it's meaning. My grandparents, who grew old and passed to their rest forty some years ago, thought the coming was immanent (they lived through two horrific wars, they thought it was immanent). My father, who lived through one of those wars thought it was immanent -- he was laid to rest 25 years ago. Immanent has a "time setting" feeling that results in disappointment and frustration. "Soon" is the better word. Christ's coming is soon -- whether it's next year or another decade or more. "Soon" is an OPEN word, that urges us to be ready ALL THE TIME, whether it's "immanent" or in the near future. Besides -- for us individually it could be anytime -- life is uncertain. Christ closes the Bible with this encouraging word: "Surely I come quickly." That final word of Christ is instructive of how we're to view His return. Those who see a problem with the modifications at San Antonio are in harmony with the final divine signing off. About the authority of Ellen White, while we don't use her writings as an authoritative source in evangelism they are in fact an authoritative source of truth and this is true wherever the gifts of the spirit are at work.
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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: ProdigalOne]
#188099
12/18/18 06:20 PM
12/18/18 06:20 PM
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Active Member 2024
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I have already discussed the change from "imminent" to "soon" in this thread, so I won’t belabour the point. Bohr gives a definition of "soon" as "in the twinkling of an eye". I have searched numerous dictionaries and thesauruses without seeing this definition. The Strong’s definition of “twinkling of an eye” is "a moment of time".
For “soon” Strong’s says, “when, whenever, as long as, as soon as”.
Playing semantic games with the terms “mark” and “sign” is grasping at straws. The remnant church will be identified by both Commandment keeping and Prophesy.
Semantic word games, I think is a good point and probably what I was trying to say. What Dedication said. It's become more of time setting and general benumbing of the people. For Gates to make a big deal of it, was dishonest.
The remnant church will keep all Ten Commandments and have the testimony of Jesus which is the Spirit of Prophesy. The FB describe the SOP as an “identifying mark of the remnant church”.
The spirit of prophesy is NOT one and the same as Ellen White. While she had the spirit of prophesy, the spirit of prophecy is NOT her.
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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: dedication]
#188100
12/18/18 07:14 PM
12/18/18 07:14 PM
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NON-SDA
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Full Member
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Immanent vs soon
True
Immanent does have the meaning of something hanging right over our heads, ready to drop any minute.
While "soon" means "in a short while" "in the near future".
In a sense the word "immanent" has been overworked and done the job of keeping people "reined up" until it has lost it's meaning. My grandparents, who grew old and passed to their rest forty some years ago, thought the coming was immanent (they lived through two horrific wars, they thought it was immanent). My father, who lived through one of those wars thought it was immanent -- he was laid to rest 25 years ago. Immanent has a "time setting" feeling that results in disappointment and frustration. "Soon" is the better word. Christ's coming is soon -- whether it's next year or another decade or more. "Soon" is an OPEN word, that urges us to be ready ALL THE TIME, whether it's "immanent" or in the near future.
Besides -- for us individually it could be anytime -- life is uncertain.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the word you want here is "imminent" (meaning about to happen) as opposed to "immanent" (meaning dwelling or existing within something.)
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: Charity]
#188101
12/18/18 07:44 PM
12/18/18 07:44 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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Eugene Prewit are typical of the sincere, devout, conservative branch of Adventism Eugene Prewitt needs to learn what the real Good News is instead of attacking it.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: His child]
#188116
12/22/18 10:17 AM
12/22/18 10:17 AM
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Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,118
Florida, USA
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I came, I saw, I cringed, I left. We certainly agree, not much unity or knowledge....
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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: Rick H]
#188153
12/28/18 11:54 AM
12/28/18 11:54 AM
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Rick you should have posted Gates temporary endorsement of Ernie Knowles here. You're right, that was a significant mistake. Wasn't it A.T. Jones who temporarily endorsed the prophecies of a young woman who was having visions as a result of being medicated with morphine and sincerely believed the visions were from God? God through Ellen White corrected him as I recall. In the case of Knowles God unmasked his fraud so completely that he publicly confessed he was making them up. But by this time Ernie's spiritual perceptions were so beclouded that he retracted his confession soon after and began publishing more revelations.
But the lesson for us is that in Jones' case, his error didn't in any way change heaven's endorsement of his message. What if this is like Miller's message - not perfect but the most error free, Holy Spirit filled message since apostolic times. What if your position parallels those rejecting Miller's message. I have a clear conscience in endorsing it even though Gates is not a perfect expositor because like Miller's message, the fruits are good. In one of her first visions, Ellen White was shown that the light that illuminates our path all the way to the celestial city is the midnight cry.
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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: Charity]
#188154
12/28/18 02:30 PM
12/28/18 02:30 PM
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OP
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You'll recall that the midnight cry in the Millerite movement was also known as the seventh month movement that ended in the Great Disappointment. But Inspiration tells us that in the future the midnight cry will still be our guiding light all the way to the City.
I know you all feel a responsibility as moderators to warn against another disappointment but Adventists are already wary of date setting. We ought to be equally careful that we don't reject the midnight cry in the process. If 2019 is a non event, it will still bring us that much closer to the end and to the blessed hope. So let me ask you, what do you think the midnight cry should look like today? If "God will do nothing except that He will reveal it to His servants", I suggest that whether Gates is right or wrong, when the announcement is made "Behold the Bridgroom cometh!" it will be based on biblical signs that the day of God is near, that persecution is coming and to get ready for it and for the latter rain by repentance and humanitarian and gospel outreach. Gates' message has all of those characteristics.
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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: Charity]
#188165
12/30/18 10:19 PM
12/30/18 10:19 PM
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You'll recall that the midnight cry in the Millerite movement was also known as the seventh month movement that ended in the Great Disappointment. But Inspiration tells us that in the future the midnight cry will still be our guiding light all the way to the City.
Yes, it's true the midnight cry is still our guiding light -- but notice it's position. They had a bright light set up behind them at the beginning of the path, which an angel told me was the "midnight cry." [See Matthew 25:6.] This light shone all along the path, and gave light for their feet, so that they might not stumble. {CET 57.2}
If they kept their eyes fixed on Jesus, who was just before them, leading them to the city, they were safe. But soon some grew weary, and said the city was a great way off, and they expected to have entered it before. Then Jesus would encourage them by raising His glorious right arm, and from His arm came a light which waved over the advent band, and they shouted "Alleluia!" Others rashly denied the light behind them, and said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out, leaving their feet in perfect darkness, It's the light at the BEGINNING of the path. The light BEHIND them. People deny the light BEHIND them and it goes out. In other words -- be grounded in what that light represented for it shows that we are ON THE right path. The light ahead is JESUS -- our perfect trust in Him. Not a re-working and revising of the "light behind us"
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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: Charity]
#188209
01/07/19 03:32 PM
01/07/19 03:32 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
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It is true that in his most recent internet message, David stated repeatedly that
he was not being dogmatic, that he was not trying to set dates, that viewers
should trust God, not him, and that we should not rely on human opinion. He
also stated that things might not turn out exactly as he saw them and that his
views were his own personal conviction. In spite of his disclaimer, David did set
a series of specific dates and time-periods for prophetic events.
I noticed that, too. At the beginning of his latest presentation, David denied that he was setting
dates for current events and yet we shall find that in spite of his denials, he did,
big time. He stated:
“I am not trying to communicate a specific date, I am not trying to communicate
a specific event that will happen or a specific say, month, but I am trying to
communicate exactly what Jesus told us to do, communicate that he is even at the
door and we are at the door.”
And I noticed it, too. This is not the first time that David has set dates. In 2010, he reapplied the story
of the seven years of plenty and the seven years of famine in Egypt to events
that transpired between 2001 and 2015
Which is similar to what some here do. "Time after time will be set by different ones, and will pass by; and the influence of
this time setting will tend to destroy the faith of God's people." IT, p. 72
The 1854 time created a considerable excitement, and many have
settled it that that movement was in the order of God because it was quite
extensive and some were apparently converted by it. However, such conclusions
are not necessary. There was much preached in connection with the time in 1854
that was reasonable and right. Some who were honest took truth and error
together, and sacrificed much of what they possessed to carry out the error, and
after their disappointment, they gave up both truth and error, and are now
where it is very difficult for the truth to reach them.
1T p.409
Again, what does Ellen White say when some brother comes [up] with new light?
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Re: David Gates' prediction re Spring 2019
[Re: Charity]
#188238
01/13/19 04:08 AM
01/13/19 04:08 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2019
Posting New Member
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 28
California , USA
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Ernie Knowles, a personal friend of mine, did confess that he made up a fictional character who was referred to in publications. However, he did not confess that the dreams he had concerning Jesus’ eminent return, entertainment occurring in the churches, ABC Bookstore reform... as erroneous or made up. He specifically stated that he made up the character due to a lack of faith that the dreams he posted about repentance and the eminence of Jesus’ return would get enough attention. The organization was dissolved and he started afresh. He never ever retracted his confession. That is absolutely false. David Gates abandoned Ernie Through the influence of Laura Lee- a nonSDA who says Sabbath is not Saturday, supports observance of lunar sabbaths and who tried to cite fault with Ernie’s dreams,some of which support Saturday is sabbath day of rest.. Her website: http://www.4angelspublications.com Here is Ernie’s account of Bill Gates acceptance and then turning away of the dreams he posted: http://www.formypeople.org/truth-book/chapter-5/ Yes, Ernie made a horrible error when he posted on the fictitious list character- as if she was an actual friend.. But, he has always owned up to it. He actually had thoughts of giving up and struggled with the horrible feeling that God would not be able to use him anymore. But, he regrouped and began posting dreams and admonishing people to repent again. Ernie has called David Gates to repentance. Ernie cited that God was displeased with Gates’ time setting..., citing there has been no set time for bible prophecy to manifest since 1844 when the investigative judgement began.
Laodicea
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