HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,609
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 16
kland 9
Daryl 4
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
ProdigalOne
ProdigalOne
Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,185
Joined: June 2015
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
7 registered members (Kevin H, Karen Y, Daryl, dedication, ProdigalOne, 2 invisible), 3,092 guests, and 13 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? #188236
01/12/19 05:53 PM
01/12/19 05:53 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Let's study the 144K and be inspired. We're told in scripture about these heroes of faith for that purpose. But how many of us have said openly or in our hearts, "No thanks, I'd much rather be one of the great multitude and not go through that ordeal." Yet there they are still challenging us. I believe the Spirit is inviting us to step forward and be among them. True it is a challenge indeed, but how deep is our love for the Lord? What love that he would honor this group as no other, not even the angels who delight to execute his commands and fulfill His will. I hope an army of youth who are often more ready to face a challenge than mature men rise to the challenge.

In Adventism we're up to about 20 million members now - more than the entire population of many countries. I remember when I was younger, the entire population of Canada was that amount. Of course 20 million is small relative to the world's 7.7 billion as of January 2019. 7.7b divided by 20m is 385 which is the number of people for every Adventist. As a percentage, Adventists make up less than a third of one percent of the world's population.

Of the 20 million, if one in twenty among us (according to inspiration the ratio of wise virgins to unwise was between 1 and 20 and 1 and 100 in her day) are rousable, that's 1,000,000. The Lord turned the world upside down with 12 apostles. Think what He could do with 1,000,000.

But that ratio was in her day. Let's say the ratio today is 1 in 200. That's still 100,000. If the 144k is a literal number (I think it is but it may not be) 100K is probably a better estimate of Israel's strength but still on the high side because a good share of the 144k that give the final three angels messages will be eleventh hour workers especially from among the Jews, Catholics and Evangelicals and other backgrounds as well.

But demographics aside, to start this out, what I want to explore is my claim above that the 144k are pictured at the start of Revelation 14 to inspire us with the reward that awaits everyone who cooperates with God in giving those three messages. Further, it's my view that giving the messages is what purifies or generates the 144k. The two are inseparable imo, but what do you all think?


Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188237
01/13/19 01:08 AM
01/13/19 01:08 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Hope of reward - is that your motivation?

Christ's example shows us that a work of necessity is something which one does for another, without hope of reward, and without thought of self; and He says: "If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." Will you do it?

As for demographics: All the preaching in the world will not make men feel deeply the need of the perishing souls around them. Nothing will so arouse in men and women a self-sacrificing zeal as to send them forth into new fields to work for those in darkness. Prepare workers to go out into the highways and hedges. Do not call men and women to the great center, encouraging them to leave churches that need their aid. Men must learn to bear responsibilities. Not one in a hundred among us is doing anything beyond engaging in common, worldly enterprises. We are not half awake to the worth of the souls for whom Christ died. {8T 147.4}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188239
01/13/19 04:27 AM
01/13/19 04:27 AM
L
Laodicean  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2019

Posting New Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 28
California , USA
“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.” Revelation 1:3. People who speak of not going through the time of trouble are looking at the trial and not the Refiner and His perfect work. But, these 144,000 are without fault. “And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God“ Revelation 14:5. Most people are not willing to be Refined and stand perfectly with God. But, God has appointed elect in the past- ie 12 disciples. “Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!” He will again. All we have to do is surrender and say, “Here am I, send me.” Isaiah 6:8. God will not arm an army that is not ready to serve.


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188240
01/13/19 04:36 AM
01/13/19 04:36 AM
L
Laodicean  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2019

Posting New Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 28
California , USA
The former rain has never stoooed pouring. God wants to endow us with the former and latter rain. But, who is out there combing through the Bible regularly, consecrating themselves regularly, doing miracles for God- casting out demons, healing the sick, restoring blind eyes and raising the dead? All these miracles followed Jesus’ disciples/apostles so that the people would believe their report. The gospel, thus was taken around the known world by the work of God’s apostles who were endowed with various spiritual gifts —-after Jesus’ ascension. The time is now for the church to rise up. God is waiting on us.


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Laodicean] #188247
01/13/19 03:27 PM
01/13/19 03:27 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Originally Posted By: Laodicean
The former rain has never stoooed pouring. God wants to endow us with the former and latter rain. But, who is out there combing through the Bible regularly, consecrating themselves regularly, doing miracles for God- casting out demons, healing the sick, restoring blind eyes and raising the dead? All these miracles followed Jesus’ disciples/apostles so that the people would believe their report. The gospel, thus was taken around the known world by the work of God’s apostles who were endowed with various spiritual gifts —-after Jesus’ ascension. The time is now for the church to rise up. God is waiting on us.


Amen to both your posts and a hearty welcome to Maritime.

Interesting that you point out the need for spiritual gifts on a Pentecostal scale and greater. I deeply feel the same need. Let's pray earnestly for it. The Lord wants to give it to us and He'll do that as soon as we're clean vessels capable of receiving it. Your name "Laodicean" indicates to me that you're on the right track in terms of acknowledging our problem. It was effective in making me reflect on my own condition. Again, Welcome.

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Laodicean] #188248
01/13/19 03:35 PM
01/13/19 03:35 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Laodicean, the following article was written in 2009 by Dr. Colin Standish (1933 to 2018), the final part of his book, Perfection. Dr. Standish was a co-founder and president of Hartland Institute established in 1984. Colin Standish passed to his rest on October 29, 2018. This is the Standish solution for disunity in the Church. It's also the solution in my view for receiving the gifts. See what you think of it and I'd be glad to hear your thoughts.

Quote:
In recent times, with the doctrinal and lifestyle dissonance within our Church, there has been strong cries for unity. Unity is essential before God’s servants can give the loud cry of Revelation 18:1-5. This gospel reaches to every nook and cranny of the world. Then our Lord and Saviour will appear to redeem His waiting saints. We know that Jesus will not come until the gospel commission has been taken to every nation, kindred, tongue and people (Matthew 24:14). Though there have been remarkable efforts by the Seventh-day Adventist Church to share this message around the world, we must acknowledge the reality that the overwhelming majority of the inhabitants of this world have never heard the name Seventh-day Adventists, much less the thrilling gospel that God has entrusted to this Church as the depository of His truth at the end of time.

Yet we know that Christ’s invitation will not be given to all the world until God’s people are empowered by the Holy Spirit. We have been promised a power greater than Pentecost. So dramatic was the presentation of the message under the power of Pentecost, that Paul was able to report before the fall of Jerusalem that the gospel “was preached to every creature which is under heaven” (Colossians 1:23). Unity preceded Pentecost:

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place (Acts 2:1).

That same unity is necessary at the end of time before God can entrust His people with the Holy Spirit.

I have listened to many sermons on unity, and have witnessed the efforts to make unity the central theme of the 1995 General Conference session. Many of those addressing the issue of unity have quoted the beautiful message of Jesus in His unity prayer:

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me (John 17:21).

Those sermons to which I have listened have, however, singularly failed to address the sole basis upon which this unity can be achieved. So important is this principle of unity, however, that Christ emphasized it twice in His prayer:

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth (John 17:17). And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth (John 17:19).

Until God’s people are sanctified, there will not be unity. Every other call is a call for a counterfeit unity, for such calls are predicated upon that which will destroy unity. Frequently, these are calls to compromise, consensus, or the silencing of truth. God cannot bring genuine unity under false circumstances. So important is this matter that Sister White wrote:

Unity is the sure result of Christian perfection. —Sanctified Life, p. 85

Unity is not a goal, as it is often presented to be. It is the natural result of Christian perfection. Sadly, the wide-spread teaching of the “sin and live” theology has robbed our people of unity. Only a full response to church-wide calls for revival, repentance, and reformation will result in unity. The return of Jesus depends upon it. However, not all church members will respond to Christ’s call. The final shaking brought about by persecution will remove all who continue in worldliness and selfishness. The truth must be held sacred. The pluralistic, eclectic, ecumenical, evangelical thrust that is bombarding the Seventh-day Adventist Church is designed to derail this church from its God-given mission. The servant of the Lord says:

There is no sanctification aside from truth. —Fundamentals of Christian Education, p. 432

If we are to achieve that perfect unity necessary for the pouring out of the latter rain, God’s people must hold the truth sacred. But more than this, they must allow the truth to be translated into the very fabric of their lives, bringing the sanctifying principle of God’s love. Thus Paul emphasized:

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ (Ephesians 4:13-15).

Peter puts it in the most beautiful terms:

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently; Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever (1 Peter 1:22, 23).

There is no other way to hasten the coming of Jesus Christ. The Sanctuary message is designed to lead to the justification and sanctification of God’s people, the blotting out their sins, and the uniting of the lives of men and women in God’s truth, providing their title and fitness for heaven. There is NO other way.

Perhaps the greatest challenge that faces Seventh-day Adventist preachers and teachers is to present the concept of perfection within the context of Christ our Righteousness. This centrality of Christ points men and women to the matchless claims of Christ upon their lives and service; a claim validated by the love of God demonstrated on Calvary, and proven through the mercy and long-suffering that He has shown to His people. Perfection presented in a legalistic or Christless fashion will avail nothing. Only as the centrality of the love and power of Jesus is presented in the most winning and attractive way, can we hope to see men and women drawn from, on the one hand, the legalism of human effort, and on the other, from the false security that Christ did it all, that all we have to do to be saved is to accept His perfect life. Between these two failed concepts of legalism and antinomianism, is the truth that Christ is able to keep us from falling into sin by His all powerful, victorious life.

God is drawing His people to the total surrender of the will to Him. To the one Who is altogether trustworthy is the hope, not only of an individual nor of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, nor of Christians, but of the whole human race. Our preaching must reflect this challenge if we are serious about the soon return of our Lord and Saviour.
By Colin Standish, Perfection, Hartland Publications, 2009 p.72 – 79,

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: APL] #188249
01/13/19 03:39 PM
01/13/19 03:39 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Originally Posted By: APL quoting Ellen White
All the preaching in the world will not make men feel deeply the need of the perishing souls around them. Nothing will so arouse in men and women a self-sacrificing zeal as to send them forth into new fields to work for those in darkness. Prepare workers to go out into the highways and hedges. Do not call men and women to the great center, encouraging them to leave churches that need their aid. Men must learn to bear responsibilities. Not one in a hundred among us is doing anything beyond engaging in common, worldly enterprises. We are not half awake to the worth of the souls for whom Christ died. {8T 147.4}


Excellent quote APL. It tends to support both the spiritual demographics above and also the connection between actively sharing the 3 angels messages and being part of the 144K doesn't it?

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188250
01/13/19 04:07 PM
01/13/19 04:07 PM
L
Laodicean  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2019

Posting New Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 28
California , USA
Yes, Satan’s ecumenical influence is grossly compromising our church. It is a false call to unity that is working to hinder and delay the great outpouring. God will not move until enough souls are equipped to do the work. Ecumenism proliferates assimilation to and condoning of the false teachings of the fallen churches and draws the people away from God’s true gospel. God has called for the SDA Church to be a precious and peculiar church.
On spiritual gifts/early&latter rain: Ellen White (and servants before/after her)was endowed with spiritual gifts because she yearned for God. Because of her childhood injury, she couldn’t go to school. So, She daily spent long hours with God in study and prayer. As a result, He endowed her with a gift for writing, speaking, teaching, evangelizing around the world, healing, prophesying. She did the same thing as great servants of the school of the prophets didin days of old. Question: why was it that Gehazi could not perform the miracle of bringing life back to the boy?
We can achieve much if we surrender and chase after the Lord God Jehovah with all of our hearts. Unity thereafter is a “natural” and genuine process.


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188320
01/23/19 12:58 PM
01/23/19 12:58 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
In the Bible the figure of the Branch of David is also used to depict the 144,000. David was thirty years old when he began to reign in Hebron. In the seventh year of David's reign David went up from Hebron and took Jerusalem from the Jebusites and made Zion, a part of Jerusalem his royal city.

David is a type of Christ who also began his ministry at thirty. And like Christ David was a prophet, priest and king. I mentioned recently that Ellen White in vision was shown the mighty angel of Revelation 18, as he gave the loud cry pointed directly to Christ and his royal atonement in the heavenly sanctuary. This gesture of the angel describes a work of atonement in heaven and a corresponding work of repentance in God's people. Repentance has been the missing element in Adventism in every generation since 1844. The lion/lamb of Revelation 5 has been ready to break the seals that lock human hearts since that time but every generation has refused.

But I believe David Gates is right. Things are about to change whether we are ready or not because the iniquity of the modern Amorites is now full. The seals will be broken by the Davidic Branch and a king will reign in righteousness.

The years of grace of Daniel 9 have been fulfilled. We're on the cusp of that period when the walls of Zion will be measured and built of lively stones:
Quote:

Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psa 50:1 The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
Psa 50:2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
Psa 50:3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
Psa 50:4 He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
Psa 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
Psa 50:6 And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.
Psa 50:7 Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I am God, even thy God.

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188321
01/23/19 01:13 PM
01/23/19 01:13 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
The early rain has been falling for some time now on God's remnant. The first inauguration of David in Hebron is a type of Christ's first inauguration which resulted in Pentecost and the early reign. The second inauguration of David in Hebron was a type of the second inauguration of Christ pictured in Revelation 5 as the lion of Judah.

The start of David's reign in Hebron was also a harbinger of the conquest of Zion seven years later. The conquest of Zion is a figure of the armies of God under the power of the latter rain which is about to fall on the world. The best days of the church, the complete restoration of Zion, are straight ahead when the glory of Christ in His sanctuary encircles the globe and a knowledge of His royal atonement covers the earth as the waters cover the sea.
Quote:
Zec 2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderator  dedication 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 04/30/24 10:34 PM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 04/21/24 06:41 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by Daryl. 04/05/24 12:04 PM
Destruction of Canadian culture
by ProdigalOne. 04/05/24 07:46 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Daryl. 05/01/24 07:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by ProdigalOne. 04/29/24 04:47 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by dedication. 04/22/24 06:04 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1