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Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188325
01/24/19 10:22 AM
01/24/19 10:22 AM
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Laodicean  Offline
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Yes, David was a prophet and king. However, unlike with Melchizedek, the bible does not place him in the priesthood. When he was hungry and in need of a weapon, the priest gave him the holy bread that was being replaced by the fresh batch and gave him Goliaths sword. He could not go in to the holy place and get for himself. The priest gave holy bread to David not because he was priest, but because he had not been with a woman for specified days, there was no common bread available and because the bread was being replaced. 1 Samuel 21:4-6. The Earthly priesthood was reserved for the Levites only. David was of Judah. 1 San 30:6-7 shows us that he relied on the priesthood to inquire of the Lord via the ephod, Urim and thummim. He himself was not allowed to carry out the office of the Priesthood. Jesus was king and priest by order of Melchizedek.


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Laodicean] #188334
01/25/19 02:43 PM
01/25/19 02:43 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Laodicean
Yes, David was a prophet and king. However, unlike with Melchizedek, the bible does not place him in the priesthood. When he was hungry and in need of a weapon, the priest gave him the holy bread that was being replaced by the fresh batch and gave him Goliaths sword. He could not go in to the holy place and get for himself. The priest gave holy bread to David not because he was priest, but because he had not been with a woman for specified days, there was no common bread available and because the bread was being replaced. 1 Samuel 21:4-6. The Earthly priesthood was reserved for the Levites only. David was of Judah. 1 San 30:6-7 shows us that he relied on the priesthood to inquire of the Lord via the ephod, Urim and thummim. He himself was not allowed to carry out the office of the Priesthood. Jesus was king and priest by order of Melchizedek.

I agree that David was not a Levite and did not assume any Levitical duties, but he functioned as a priest-king after the order of Melchizedek in that he ate the shewbread and was guiltless. Anyone else who did this would be have been an offender but David was a type of Christ and his men with whom he shared the shewbread were a type of the armies of God. David also wore the ephod and linen garment of a priest as he lead the ark of God and danced before the Lord, and he sat within the Holy Place before the Lord as a priest after Melchizedek's order where the common people had no access. Luke 6:3, 4; 2 Samuel 6:14; 2 Samuel 7:19-29.

But notice that David, like Melchizedek, was king of Salem, that is of JeruSalem, and king of righteousness, that is king of Zion. It is when the Branch of David, the 144,000 appear with the lamb on Mount Zion that the three angel's messages are given in power. Revelation 14:1-5. Why? Because the Lion of Judah, the royal Lamb is again crowned at the beginning of the latter rain. His inauguration is described in Revelation 5 but the results are described in Revelation 14. The first angel of Revelation 14:6 and 7 points to the hour of God's royal judgment; these angel messengers point to the everlasting gospel and to Christ's final work of atonement to liberate His people from sin. Thus the first angel's message is the proclamation of a royal jubilee and the 144,000 who declare it are the first fruits of that Jubilee.

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188337
01/25/19 09:54 PM
01/25/19 09:54 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Basically, Revelation 14:1-5 should be attached to Revelation 13.
Revelation 12 depicts the forces of the dragon
AND the woman and her remnant against whom these forces wage war.

Revelation 13 goes into greater detail on the forces of the dragon
and then in the next 5 verses shows the remnant standing firm in Christ in spite of these forces.

Verse 6 starts a new cycle --
The giving of the message during the "time of the end" which began in 1798.

Quote:
I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, . . . saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come. Revelation 14:6, 7. {CTr 338.1}

The proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages has been located by the Word of Inspiration. Not a peg or pin is to be removed. No human authority has any more right to change the location of these messages than to substitute the New Testament for the Old.

The first and second messages [Revelation 14:6-8] were given in 1843 and 1844, and we are now under the proclamation of the third; but all three of the messages are still to be proclaimed. It is just as essential now as ever before that they shall be repeated to those who are seeking for the truth. By pen and voice we are to sound the proclamation, showing their order and the application of the prophecies that bring us to the third angel’s message. There cannot be a third without the first and second. . . . {CTr 338.3}

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188339
01/25/19 11:08 PM
01/25/19 11:08 PM
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Laodicean  Offline
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David and his men ate the shew bread not just David -they were not priests

Last edited by Laodicean; 01/25/19 11:10 PM.

Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: dedication] #188340
01/26/19 12:10 AM
01/26/19 12:10 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Basically, Revelation 14:1-5 should be attached to Revelation 13. . .Verse 6 starts a new cycle --
The giving of the message during the "time of the end" which began in 1798.


Let's look at the cycles some more.

The first cycle begins with the seven churches and covers from the Apostles to today. Since Ellen White places Revelation 5 in the future and Revelation 4 is the introduction of 5, this cycle continues to the seals in Chapter 6. And since she places the seals and the trumpets in the future as well, the cycle continues from chapter 2 to 11. (But she also implies that the seals and trumpets are parallel or at least partly overlap.)

Notice though that the 144,000 are sealed in chapter 7 just after the Lamb takes the seven-sealed book but before the trumpets sound. Why? For the same reason they appear in Revelation 14 just before the three angel's messages. The trumpets are the final warning and call to repentance. Their warning blasts are given in power by the 144,000. These are heaven's marines that follow the lamb wherever He goes, that follow Him on white horses as he rides forth to the final battle of Armageddon conquering and to conquer. Rev 6:2 and 19:11-14.

Revelation 12 to 19 repeats and expands on the first cycle from 2 to 11. In Revelation 12, the woman gives birth to the man child who is caught up to God's throne. The man child is a symbol of the 144,000. These are the Elijah messengers who like Elijah can say to the wicked rulers of this world, "As the Lord liveth before whom I stand" because by faith they stand before the throne of God. In chapter 13 the mortal wound of the beast is healed and it is in this context that the 144,000 shine forth on Mount Zion with the Lamb declaring to the world a jubilee of full liberty from the bondage of sin and the beast.

But the gospel invitation and warning is rejected by the world and then the plagues fall. Interestingly, Ellen White implies that the plagues overlap the trumpets and seals as well.

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188342
01/26/19 03:18 AM
01/26/19 03:18 AM
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Laodicean  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Charity
Originally Posted By: Laodicean
Yes, David was a prophet and king. However, unlike with Melchizedek, the bible does not place him in the priesthood. When he was hungry and in need of a weapon, the priest gave him the holy bread that was being replaced by the fresh batch and gave him Goliaths sword. He could not go in to the holy place and get for himself. The priest gave holy bread to David not because he was priest, but because he had not been with a woman for specified days, there was no common bread available and because the bread was being replaced. 1 Samuel 21:4-6. The Earthly priesthood was reserved for the Levites only. David was of Judah. 1 San 30:6-7 shows us that he relied on the priesthood to inquire of the Lord via the ephod, Urim and thummim. He himself was not allowed to carry out the office of the Priesthood. Jesus was king and priest by order of Melchizedek.

I agree that David was not a Levite and did not assume any Levitical duties, but he functioned as a priest-king after the order of Melchizedek in that he ate the shewbread and was guiltless. Anyone else who did this would be have been an offender but David was a type of Christ and his men with whom he shared the shewbread were a type of the armies of God. David also wore the ephod and linen garment of a priest as he lead the ark of God and danced before the Lord, and he sat within the Holy Place before the Lord as a priest after Melchizedek's order


David “girded himself with a linen ephod.” Yes, but the Hebrew word for ephod -
“ éphawd” -also means “girdle” which is an undergarment. He stripped his outer clothes and he exposed his undergarments and that’s one reason why Saul’s daughter, Michal, criticized him- he punished her by making her childless. 2 Samuel 6. The priestly ephod is not an undergarment. It is an outer garment. David had the people pull the Ark of the covenant on a beast driven cart. If he represented the high priest, then he would have surely had the levites carry the cart with staves as God had instructed. Because of his wrong choice, that was contrary to God’s command, Uzzah was struck dead when he tried to steady the Ark OTC. 2 Samuel 7- you said David was allowed to go into the holy place. This is not mentioned in the Bible. Only the priests were allowed to eat the bread —in the holy place. Sauls Edomite servant saw David and his men get the bread. That’s how he went back to Saul and told. Saul later killed the priests and their families and flocks as a result.The Bible said the priest had the 5 loaves of bread under his hand. David said,” The bread is in a manner common.” The Bible also indicates allowances made by God in time of emergency or need. The priest inquired of the Lord for David and gave him food and a sword.1 Samuel 22


Laodicea
Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: Charity] #188356
01/28/19 04:02 AM
01/28/19 04:02 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Are you sure that EGW puts these things in the future?

Let's go back to Revelation chapters 4 and 5.
I see EGW puts them at the time of Christ's ascension.

We know the basic scene --

It’s an amazing worship scene in which God is declared worthy to receive honor and praise.
But something is missing? The Father holds a scroll Upon which the ultimate destiny of everything seems to depend. It’s basically the scroll of the everlasting covenant containing "the history of God's providences, the prophetic history of nations and the church. Herein was contained the divine utterances, His authority, His commandments, His laws, the whole symbolic counsel of the Eternal" and unless it is opened that covenant cannot be fulfilled.

But NO ONE in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

No one in heaven -- (not even God the Father could open the scroll without breaking the covenant)

There is considerable consternation – John, the apostle who is viewing the scene is overcome with anxiety and grief and starts to sob.

Where is Jesus? He is not yet in heaven (for no one there could open the book) He is not on earth, (no one there was worthy either) nor under the earth (in the grave) Where is He?

Jesus is on His way to heaven ---
He is being escorted by a host of angels (you will notice the hosts of angels in God's throne room aren't mentioned in Revelation, until after Jesus arrives)


Now let EGW tell us in the last chapter of Desire of Ages:

"The time had come for Christ to ascend to His Father's throne....

All heaven was waiting to welcome the Saviour to the celestial courts. As He ascended, He led the way, and the multitude of captives set free at His resurrection followed. The heavenly host, with shouts and acclamations of praise and celestial song, attended the joyous train. {DA 833.2}
As they drew near to the city of God, the challenge is given by the escorting angels,--


"Lift up your heads, O ye gates;
And be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors;
And the King of glory shall come in." {DA 833.3}
Joyfully the waiting sentinels respond,--

"Who is this King of glory?" {DA 833.4}
This they say, not because they know not who He is, but because they would hear the answer of exalted praise,--


"The Lord strong and mighty,
The Lord mighty in battle!
Lift up your heads, O ye gates;
Even lift them up, ye everlasting doors;
And the King of glory shall come in." {DA 833.5}
Again is heard the challenge, "Who is this King of glory?" for the angels never weary of hearing His name exalted. The escorting angels make reply,--


"The Lord of hosts;
He is the King of glory." Psalm 24:7-10. {DA 833.6}
Then the portals of the city of God are opened wide, and the angelic throng sweep through the gates amid a burst of rapturous music. {DA 833.7}


In the very next sentences we find many references to Revelation five!

There is the throne, and around it the rainbow of promise. There are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God, the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion,--all are there to welcome the Redeemer. They are eager to celebrate His triumph and to glorify their King. {DA 834.1}

But He (Jesus) waves them back. Not yet; He cannot now receive the coronet of glory and the royal robe. He enters into the presence of His Father.
(He comes as the LAMB SLAIN) He points to His wounded head, the pierced side, the marred feet; He lifts His hands, bearing the print of nails. He points to the tokens of His triumph; ... Before the foundations of the earth were laid, the Father and the Son had united in a covenant to redeem man if he should be overcome by Satan. They had clasped Their hands in a solemn pledge that Christ should become the surety for the human race. This pledge Christ has fulfilled. When upon the cross He cried out, "It is finished," He addressed the Father. The compact had been fully carried out. Now He declares: Father, it is finished. I have done Thy will, O My God. I have completed the work of redemption. If Thy justice is satisfied, "I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am." John 19:30; 17:24. {DA 834.2}

The voice of God is heard proclaiming that justice is satisfied. Satan is vanquished. Christ's toiling, struggling ones on earth are "accepted in the Beloved." Ephesians 1:6. Before the heavenly angels and the representatives of unfallen worlds, they are declared justified. Where He is, there His church shall be. "Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other." Psalm 85:10. The Father's arms encircle His Son, and the word is given, "Let all the angels of God worship Him." Hebrews 1:6. {DA 834.3}
With joy unutterable, rulers and principalities and powers acknowledge the supremacy of the Prince of life. The angel host prostrate themselves before Him, while the glad shout fills all the courts of heaven, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing." Revelation 5:12. {DA 834.4}

Songs of triumph mingle with the music from angel harps, till heaven seems to overflow with joy and praise. Love has conquered. The lost is found. Heaven rings with voices in lofty strains proclaiming, "Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb forever and ever." Revelation 5:13.



And in Acts of the Apostles we continue --

Christ's ascension to heaven was the signal that His followers were to receive the promised blessing. For this they were to wait before they entered upon their work. When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as this ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even
with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity. The Pentecostal outpouring was Heaven's communication that the Redeemer's inauguration was accomplished. According to His promise He had sent the Holy Spirit from heaven to His followers as a token that He had, as priest and king, received all authority in heaven and on earth, and was the Anointed One over His people. {AA 38.3}

Re: Why are the 144k BEFORE the 3 Angels? [Re: dedication] #188382
01/29/19 11:35 AM
01/29/19 11:35 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Are you sure that EGW puts these things in the future?


Yes. She does both, applying it to the past as you point out above and to the future as I've posted in other threads.

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