It's often asserted that Adventists build their belief of the Investigative Judgment on inconsequential information and on one misunderstood text.
But this is a straw man!
In reality, the Investigative Judgment is based on a broad understanding of scripture, and it is in agreement on an understanding of the Protestant gospel.

However, there is more than one way to understand the gospel within the broader scope of Protestantism ? There are several basic Biblical doctrines which determine how we understand the gospel which in turn determine our understanding of the Investigative Judgment -- indeed the Pre-Advent judgment is a logical and fully Biblical conclusion when those OTHER biblical doctrines are understood.

What are these beliefs that must first be understood before the Investigative Judgment becomes a logical conclusion, and necessary event in salvation's story?

1. The understanding of the great controversy between Christ and Satan (the dragon).
This includes the whole understanding of creation and the beginning of sin, Satan's enmity against God's commandments, yet accusing people as not savable sinners before God.
Revelation 12, Isaiah 14:12-15, Genesis 1-3, Zechariah 3, Matt, 4:1-11, Luke 10:18; Luke 22:31; Acts 26:18; Rev. 20:2; Ephesians 6:11-12

2. The understanding of freedom of choice. Arminianism not the Calvinism's concept of God's fixed predetermined predestination of who is to be saved and who is to be left unsaved.
We need to understand the Biblical call to all, whosoever will, may come.
Rev. 22:17, Mark 8:34; Joshua 24:15

3. Once saved is not necessarily always saved. The understanding that a person is free to turn away and stop following Christ even if at some point in their lives they accepted Him.
Luke 8:14, Heb.6:4-6; Heb. 10:26; 2 Peter 3:17, Matt. 7:21-22, Ez. 18:24

4. The understanding that the dead are really dead until the resurrection. No immortal soul. All are asleep in their graves having not yet received their "eternal rewards" .
Acts 2:35; 1 Thess 4:16-17; Eccl 9:5, Ps.146:3-4, Ps. 115:17, Rev. 11:18, Rev. 22:12


5. The understanding that God does judge.
Daniel 7:9-10; Heb 10:26-27; 1 Peter 4:17; Romans 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10; Eccl 3:17; Ez. 18:30-31; Acts 10:42; Romans 2:16; 2 Tim.4:1

Adventist doctrine of the Investigative Judgment is the natural outgrowth of the Arminian concept of people's choice as to whether they accept the offered salvation, as well as the doctrine of Soul Sleep.
Everything else in our study of the investigative judgment is useful in understanding the doctrine and its relevance. Once those doctrines are understood the pre-Adventist Judgment is seen as a logical part of the salvation process, and the doctrine does not rest solely on the usual arguments discussed.

The necessity for a - judgment stands or falls on how salvation itself is understood. The scope of the sin problem as it relates on a cosmic scale, the aspect of our choice to follow Christ faithfully and the Biblical concept of the dead asleep in their graves awaiting a resurrection all fit with an investigative judgment.

Since Adventists have a biblical foundation for these concepts, it is easy to understand the essential nature of the Investigative or Pre-Advent Judgment.

So if people agree on those point, other details supporting the IJ become relevant as well.
But if any of the five above points are denied, then the waters get more muddy.

So let's look at these five basic beliefs one by one.
How does understanding them lead us to acknowledge the need for a Pre-Advent Judgment?
How does denying them make accepting the Pre-Advent any issue?

First Belief
1. The understanding of the great controversy between Christ and Satan (the dragon).
The belief this world is involved in a huge controversy of cosmic proportions presents a far bigger picture of the whole salvation process. This includes the whole understanding of creation and the beginning of sin, Satan's enmity against God's commandments, and his accusations that people are not savable sinners before God.

Of course we should first of all establish people firmly in the gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus our Savior, and there is much more concerning the gospel that is very important.

But even the most basic Christian beliefs are under attack as the first chapters of Genesis are cast aside or replaced with an evolution theistic counterfeit, and the great controversy theme is lost.

THE MAIN OBJECTION
When we hear people saying: "But God knows everything, He knows who has accepted Him and who has not, thus there is no need for an investigative judgment."

Those who argue that point -- well it is pretty safe to assume those people do not understand the great controversy issues.
They tend to see salvation as simply a matter between the individual and God and nothing/nobody else is concerned. Thus, as long as God knows (and He does know) why have a judgment at which a thousand million angels are present and the books are opened? (Daniel 7:9-10) And Jesus presents names to the Father and the angels as to whether they stay in the book of life or not (Rev. 3:5)

Col. 1:20 Having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Eph. 1:10 gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him

There was reconciliation needed in heaven as well. Satan was a mighty angel in heaven, he implanted doubts in the minds of the heavenly hosts, drew one third of the angels away from God, and they were all cast out of heaven with him. (Isaiah 14 and Rev. 12) Satan lied to Eve and coaxed her into rebelling against God. (Gen. 3) Humanity fell deep into sin. Could they be redeemed? Are they any safer to bring into heaven, than Lucifer/Satan was when he was cast out?


Christ, the Son of God, that One that was God and was with God,. John 1:1 came to this earth to redeem mankind. Yes, that's the very core of the gospel.
But Satan argues that we are all far to sinful to be saved. However, there is a cleansing fountain in Christ Jesus, and He will rebuke Satan's accusation and vindicate all who come to Christ for cleansing. (Zechariah 3, Ephesians 1:6-7)

When it's all over,
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those in earth, and under the earth;
Rev. 19:1-2 I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

God has a purpose in letting sin manifest itself in the earth.
Many doubts were planted even in the minds of angels (and people) who remained faithful.
When this is all over everyone will have seen the enormity of Satan's lies, and in stark contrast ot the awesome glory, justice and love of the Savior.
Everyone, in heaven and on earth will praise the justice of God.
All doubts will be removed. Sin will completely have lost it's appeal and never rise again.

How could this be the result if people and angels were questioning God's judgment as to why He saved some and not others?
Judgment times -- to lay open the reason some are saved and some not, will reveal the awesome fairness, goodness, of God and forever settle the issue -- God is love, He is just, He is righteous and everything else that is good and holy.

The first point is understanding the Great Controversy Issues, which gives the big picture as to how the Investigative judgment fits in with the bigger picture of Christ bringing into unity not just people on earth, but all in heaven and on earth.. (Eph. 1:10; Col.1:16,20)

Second point

2. The understanding of freedom of choice. Adventists see the Arminian view that everyone has the choice to respond to Christ for salvation, we do not accept the Calvinism's concept of God's fixed, predetermined predestination of who is to be saved and who is to be left unsaved.
We need to understand the Biblical call to all, whosoever will, may come.
Christ died for ALL, the provisions for salvation is for all, the invitation to come is for all, but each individual has the choice to respond.



Calvinism, in it's more extreme form, leaves mankind no choice in whether they will be saved or lost. Their theory is that God predestined some to be redeemed. Those are the ones Christ died to save. The rest are left in their lost state. Since everyone is hopelessly trapped in sin, those who were chosen to be saved will be overwhelmed with an irresistible force of grace to come to Christ for salvation.
Those predestined to be lost, would be left in their carnal state, nothing they could do would change that, they are lost.

If there is no choice, then a judgment as to whose name is to be retained in the book of life, is pointless. It was all decided before we were even born.

Yet scripture speaks often of Christ coming to save everyone who would come to Him. His sacrifice is all sufficient to save every sinner, the only thing standing in the way of our salvation is our own rejection of His love and grace, and insisting on being our own gods.

When mankind is given freedom of choice then judgment is needed to differentiate between those who made a real choice, and those who just claimed the name but their hearts were unchanged.


If you are sharing the Pre-Advent judgment message with a Calvinist who believes in their version of pre-destination, you will hit a road block. At this juncture, the debate is not so much about the Investigative Judgment texts and details . Rather the problem is that they don't understand the Arminian concept of free choice, and salvation's availability for all, which is one of the Investigative Judgment's foundations.

The third belief which makes the belief in an Investigative Judgment a logical part of salvation.

3. Once saved is not necessarily always saved. Thus there is the understanding that a person is free to turn away and stop following Christ even if at some point in their lives they accepted Him.

The concept of once saved always saved, takes God's promises of salvation to all who believe and the abiding power of the Holy Spirit into the realm of removing the person's choice.

Now conversion is an important and powerful experience as a person accepts Christ it changes the whole direction of their life through the power of the Holy Spirit. There are many promises of God's keeping and transforming power. There is security in being in Christ and following Him. He doesn't just cast us off when we stumble, but picks us up and encourages us to walk closer with Him.
But it's still a personal choice. A person can still ignore or turn off the voice of the Holy Spirit and drift away, or even allow circumstances to turn them away from Christ in open rejection.
Living "in Christ" and being "filled with the Holy Spirit" includes a life of prayer and seeking to know Christ better; to be in daily relationship with Him and following Him in His paths of righteousness.

When it comes to the Investigative Judgment those who are strong believers in once saved always saved will dismiss it as taking away their "security" which in reality may be a presumptuous false security that their worldliness is OK since they once accepted Christ.

Some who believe in the "once saved always saved" will often admit that some Christians do "fall away" but their explanations is that "they were never really saved in the first place."

Here there is a possible meeting of ideas, as the Pre Advent judgment does reveal who is really saved, (that is -- they are in that saving relationship with Christ) and who isn't.
The difference is in thinking that once saved, some believe at that point it's forever settled. The concept that those who fall away were never really saved in the first place, actually takes away all assurance, as they would always worry if they they were really saved?
Thus the belief of free choice gives assurance, as we believe at the point of surrender to Christ we are in a saved condition. As long as our lives remain in that relationship with Christ and seek and worship Him, we are in that saved relationship, we are "in Christ". It's only when we separate ourselves from that relationship that we separate ourselves from the One Who saves. And that always remains our choice.

The doctrine of the Pre-Adventist Judgment is the natural continuation of the belief that God always gives us free choice. He desires a relationship freely given, never one that is programed or forced.

4. The understanding that the dead are really dead until the resurrection. No immortal soul. All are asleep in their graves having not yet received their "eternal rewards" .
This one is crucial to understand.
If people go to heaven as soon as they die -- why would there be a need for a Pre-Advent judgment?

But if there is a resurrection of all the saved at the second coming, and another resurrection of wicked after the 1000 years. It makes perfect sense that a list of the saved is finalized in the book of life, of all who will be raised in that resurrection!

I don't have much, if any, disagreement with what you said but I didn't see you address anything to do with the parable of the 10 virgins, Uriah Smith's comments on this parable of Jesus is the best explanation of it I have seen. It is better than Ellen White's, His article, titled Parable of the 10 Virgins, can be found in the APL. What caused me to read it is a sermon from Doug Batchelor in his Amazing Facts prophecy series, Panorama of Prophecy.

The point of this thread is mainly to point out why many Christian?s don?t see any need for a pre advent judgement. Even Uriah smiths explanation of the ten virgins won?t mean anything to them if they believe people go straight to heaven or hell when they die

I don't see hoe it can hurt as Jesus told the parable as He was telling His disciples what was coming in the last days. He interrupted His discourse on prophecy to tell both the parables of the 10 virgins and the talents,

It?s a good parable especially when studying with people who believe in the once saved always saved teaching.
Those ten virgins all had oil and light in the beginning. But five didn?t make it in the end their lights had gone out

I always use the following verses to help people see how the Investigative Judgement has to happen.

Matthew 25:32-34
King James Version
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

How can Christ separate the goats from the sheep and they inherit the kingdom if they have not been judged..

The followng isn't a passage to "prove" the IJ but it helps remove people's fear of it.

Basically the the investigative judgement is a logical step when two distinctive beliefs are seen as truth.

The Adventist understanding of the mortality of the soul and our freedom to choose our salvation make a pre-advent investigative judgement a sensible step in the process of salvation. The vast majority of Christianity can?t make sense of a pre-advent investigative judgement as they believe in an immortal soul. Nor does an investigative judgment make sense to the predetermined idea of salvation of a Calvinist who believes that God has already predestines he will save, and who will be ignored

But there is something else that has made the pre-Advent judgment seem wrong to many Christians.

It has often been presented in a purely legalistic manner.

The Christian road of walking the sanctified life with Jesus, has two deadly ditches.
One, we, as Adventists warn against -- that ditch is presumptuous security, thinking we are saved while deliberately living a sinful life. That's one ditch to get us off the road to the kingdom.
The other ditch is equally dangerous -- thinking if we have enough good works stacked up it will erase all our bad works.

When righteousness by faith is an intimate part of the understanding of the pre-Advent judgment, then it becomes an awesome, and very important belief.

Two of the beliefs that I understand to make the Investigative Judgment clearer are the issues of the great controversy and within Adventism there tends to be a split between two different understandings about hell fire. The one view is the traditional Catholic/Baptist view only shorter, but where the lost are roasted and toasted in a literal physical pain that we would get from touching a hot stove or being burned alive etc. The other view is that hell fire is seeing God in person in all his love, beauty and glory. That God treats us all the same at the end, but the lost do not believe his love and forgiveness. they are unforgiving people, and thus unable to comprehend God's forgiveness. They have developed habits of rejecting the Holy Spirit's plead to their hearts, and habits of manipulating people to control them, and when having the choice between true happiness, their tendency has been to choose the inferior pleasure of contempt, things like criticizing, complaining, threatening, punishing, or bribing. They see their sinfulness in contrast to the purity of Jesus. They are overwhelmingly attracted to Jesus. Jesus is their deepest desire, the desire of all nations, the desire of ages, the one beloved/desired of women, the one sweeter than honey and more precious than gold. They so long to run into his arms of forgiveness, but they do not know him and thus they do not trust him. They know what they would do to someone like themselves if they were this pure God, and they expect God to sooner or later get them for their sins. They torture themselves with what they picture of what God should do to them. They want to run into his loving arms, but refuse to yield and they pull away from the only source of life. The horror of hell is not the physical pain of a divine spanking, but the seeing your deepest desire, Jesus in all his love, beauty and glory, but not trusting him and thus refusing to run into his loving arms.

Too many try to fit the new wine of the investigative judgment into the old wine skins of picturing the judgment as standing before the throne of God with their knees shaking and either hearing "You may go into heaven" and they run in before God can change his mind; or else they are told they need to go to hell and are dragged off kicking and screaming pleading for mercy, but too late. This mindset has the investigative judgment be a refreshing of God's memory of things you did that you really need to be punished for.

As to the issues of the great controversy (besides how the study of the great controversy teaching about just how God will kill the lost) is focused on God saving the universe and developing a mature love in all creatures, and a growing love in the creatures who choose to live with this wonderful God forever. .

Too many see salvation as "How do I get God to let me into heaven and not sending me to hell as I deserve?" and all focused on me and my personal salvation. Seeing the angels as having never fallen, thus they don't need the righteousness of Christ and righteousness by faith, that is only for sinners; and often it ends up with seeing heaven as merely a return to where we were before sin.

God is working to bring the entire universe into a mature love for him, a maturing in growth. Except for humans, the rest of the universe closed their probation by the cross. A time is coming where we humans close our probation. But just because we get to the point where we have made an eternal unchanging choice for or against Jesus ruling in our hearts; does not mean that things just level out. We will constantly learn more things about Jesus and fall deeper and deeper in love with him.

When we look at 1844, a couple of things that happened (and yes, we can add a lot more to this) but in the 1820s the Rosetta Stone was deciphered. In the 1830s Edward Robinson had his first trip to the holy land, and in the early 1840s he had published his trip and it was starting to be read. These two events ended up leading to archaeology, especially Biblical Archaeology. The Rosetta stone opened up ancient languages, and through archaeology we rediscovered the ancient world. The mid 1840s started the rediscovery of the ancient world. We can start to investigate the pages of scripture like never before. It was the opening of the age of exegesis. Then the telegraph started to spread ideas and news faster than ever before.

The ancient world saw things in heaven and earth as reflecting each other. On earth, we are living in the age of exegesis, where we get to investigate the pages of scripture as never before. And in heaven, the unfallen look at those who claimed to have accepted God into their lives. The first question is whether or not we have accepted Jesus, and if we have, then did Jesus really make a difference in our life? As they see what Jesus did for you and me, they come to a better understanding of their own salvation and what Jesus had done for them. Just because I can learn more about Abraham's life than I could have before the investigative judgment does not mean that we will find out something that will cause Abraham to be lost. Same with us, as those in heaven review my lives, they will not find out something where God will say "Oops, I forgot all about this, I need to send them to hell." I see what Jesus did for people in the Bible and I love him greater. Gabriel can see what Jesus did for me, and it deepens his love for Jesus.

The focus of hell is who Jesus is, and the focus on the investigative judgment is "More about Jesus I would know..."

The only thing I would disagree with, and it may only be nitpicking, is the belief that seeing God's glory is the second death. That just cannot be true according to Ellen White.

The wicked receive their recompense in the earth. Proverbs 11:31. They ?shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts.? Malachi 4:1. Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished ?according to their deeds.? The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch?Satan the root, his followers the branches. Our Father Cares page 375

Kevin, While I agree it is hard to fathom why people would reject the One Who is love, mercy, and Salvation, choosing to cling to sin, refusing to part from it, I do have some huge questions on somethings written by you.

Adventists don't believe in hell fire. Something has certainly changed if Adventists believe in either of the two versions you suggest.

Adventists certainly do NOT believe in the Catholic doctrine of hell fire, which believes in the immortality of soul and that judgment occurs at the death of the body when the soul goes either into eternal torment in hell, or purgatory, or if lucky goes to heaven.

Nor do we believe that God judges all people the same in the end. The Adventist teaching as I've always understood it, is that some are vindicated by the blood of Christ and declared righteous in the pre-Advent judgment, while others cling to their sins, not wanting to give them up, and thus die in the cleansing fire when sin is wiped out of existence.
It's not shown in inspired writings that everyone greatly desires to be with Christ in the end, yes those inside the city are praising Christ, but those outside aren't lost because they see Christ and want desperately to be with Him, but think forgiveness is impossible and run the other way. They are on the outside because they do not love the righteousness Christ stands for, they do not have any love for His character.

Both of those views you presented seem to make the investigative judgment meaningless, would they not?

Now I agree the lost at the second resurrection will experience a terrible sense of their loss, but it won't be motivated by a great longing to live with Christ. They would tear Jesus from His throne if they could and take over the city for their own pleasure. They do NOT love righteousness. Though they will declare Christ's judgment just, they don't want to live in a kingdom of righteousness, that's why they are lost.

The investigative judgment happens before the second coming and determines who will be resurrected in the first resurrection and ascend with Jesus to heaven when He comes. It determines who is in a sincere relationship with Christ, and who is not in that relationship and has chosen to live in sin.

Those raised in the second resurrection of damnation (see John 5:29) rejected the Holy Spirits pleading and followed their carnal instincts, choosing sin, and scoffing at righteousness in this present life.

Actually the Investigative Judgment is a requisite for this view of hell fire. Back with the Desmond Ford crisis, those who held this view of hell were not bothered and had no problem continuing to believe in the investigative judgment.

The fire is the fire of God's love, power, beauty and glory. God says "I am a consuming fire" It is the fire that Nebuchadnezzar's flames had to submit to, the fire of the presence of the son of God.

Genesis 3:15 says that God will put enmity between you and the woman, between thy seed and her seed... Here God has given us a special emphases in what he created us with in the first place, that our deepest desire is to be like and with Jesus. Jesus is the fairest of ten thousand, the one more desirable than gold, sweeter than honey. The one beloved of women. The angels in Luke 2 did not say that they had great tidings for the pure in heart, the righteous few, but oops, did the angel make a mistake when saying "for 'ALL' people"?

We, all of us, have two attitudes fighting inside of us. One is our sinful nature, contempt, a disposition to esteem ourselves more highly than our breathern, to serve self to seek the highest place and often this results in evil surmisings and bitterness of spirit. A disposition to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. This is what makes us sinners. The other is the enmity we have towards evil, our deepest desire, to love the world as Jesus has loved it, to want to be like and with Jesus. Even our best is tainted with selfishness and even at our worst, we are trying to force the world to be more likable, a reaching out for something more, which is the God shaped hole in each of us. If we did not have this deepest desire, we would not be horrified by disaster, whether natural or mass shootings etc. We would not like flowers, or beautiful music or any type of beauty.

Now, just because something is more powerful than another, does not mean that the most powerful one is in control. We make choices between these two attitudes. We make a habit of allowing the one or the other to ultimately control us. Yes, as our sinful nature ends up completely controlling us, there is a hatred that is felt towards the beauty. Something in them that would indeed kill Jesus. Now, just because the sinful nature ends up being the controlling power ruling our heart, does not make Jesus any less beautiful. This is what makes hell so horrible; that they are split between letting contempt and hatred control them, yet the longing to run into the loving arms of the one that they have chosen to despise and distrust. They have convinced themselves that God will get them for their sins, and this just adds to their hatred since they have convinced themselves that God's forgiveness and grace is a lie, and that Jesus is thus a lier when he says that he loves and forgives them. There is happiness which comes from our relationships, especially our relationship with Jesus, then there are short term actions which still brings about a pleasure, but that it is not true happiness, they often can be done alone, or even if they need another, the other is being used for selfish pleasure instead of really building a relationship. There is a pleasure we feel in our whining, complaining, or wanting to threaten. Yes these bring pain, but also a sick pleasure. I heard a joke of a little child who was naughty and thus punished by her mother. After the punishment the child went out and sat on the stoop and just sulked. While sulking a bird flew over and had a dropping that landed on the child's lower lip. The child just began saying "Well, it's just going to sit there until daddy comes home."

Both views of hell claim that Mrs. White believed and taught it, so I'm not going to say that she believed and taught this view, but as I've come to understand this view, I've been seeing more and more evidence for it in her writings and in the Bible. However, she did have friends who we know held this view, such as one of her friends, and Elder Fifefield. In the 1920s Lynn Harper Wood came to this understanding from his study of the Bible and Mrs. White. Living behind the iron curtain, Daniel Dudah studied the Bible and Mrs. White and came to this view and thought that all Adventists believed this and as the iron curtain came down and he and his family were reunited with the world church, he was surprised that it was not universally held. Some older pastors I had conversations with when I was younger and learning this said that this is what they believed, but did not really know how to present it, and that the view that they gave in Bible studies and evangelistic meetings were a way to reach out to people who were not ready to give up a hell fire of a different nature than the traditional burning.

Again, the horror of hell is not that God needs to give some kind of divine spanking, by treating his children like Nebuchadnezzar and the furnace or like parents who put their children's feet into scalding water. The horror of hell is being overwhelmingly attracted to Jesus, but having formed a character that had chosen to refuse to yield to this desire. That they torture themselves with pictures of what they think God should do to someone like themselves, and that instead of the true happiness of heaven, they have allowed the cheep pleasures that heaven does not have room for, things such as complaining, criticizing, blaming, nagging, threatening, whining to become a morbid heaven for them at the cost of the true heaven with their deepest desire and other loved ones. They want to come to him, but refuse. This wanting to run into his loving arms, being overwhelmingly attracted to him, but that they developed a character that simply will not yield to their deepest desire is even worst than if it was simply God giving a divine spanking and g etting it all over and done with. They want to come but the closest that would get to yielding is by kneeling and confessing that God was right and that Jesus is Lord.

And yes, this causes variation in length of punishment, as some end up quickly realizing their condition and bend the knee, others will take longer as they keep coming up with one excuse after another and sulk and hate until they finally bend their knee.

The intensity of their sinful nature controlling them, and their overwhelming attraction to Jesus quite literally rips them apart and destroys them.

I disagree with what you said in your second paragraph. I do it because both scripture and Ellen White disagree with it.

I beg to differ, the investigative judgment has nothing to do with either of your two views.
UNLESS --
and I don't know if you meant this or not, but it's the only way I can think of it having any bearing on the lake of fire at the end of the 1000 years.

Are you saying in this paragraph that they have another chance?

Are you saying that they have another chance to enter the kingdom if they give in to their "great desire to be with Jesus" and bend the knee quickly?

Actually, I don't believe any outside God's city will have a "great desire to be with Jesus" . That already dismisses the purpose of the Investigative Judgment, because that judgment is all about investigating the heart of the individual as to who has their heart.
Those who miss the first resurrection have had the judgment already determine their hearts were NOT with Christ. That "God hole" in their hearts was filled with counterfeit gods.

But I could see those who felt the "investigative judgment robbed them of the assurance of salvation, would want to get rid of it and leave the door of probation open for another chance to bow the knee and accept Christ at the third coming.

But the choice is made in THIS LIFE. The investigative judgment mainly determines who comes up in the first resurrection, and why they are worthy to be part of the first resurrection, and will travel to heaven with Jesus for 1000 years.

Those coming up in the second resurrection will face the second death (no matter how you interpret that second death being administered, if you still believe they are destroyed by the second death)

That turmoil you describe of being drawn to Christ, and resisting(or responding) to that drawing power, happens in THIS LIFE.
It's very real IN THIS LIFE. For yes, God put it into our hearts to desire Him. It's in this life that we are pulled back and forth, and make the decision to one way or the other.






The final cleansing fire that burns up all traces of sin, is view that I have always held as have most of the church members in the churches I've attended.
It's not a "divine spanking" nor is it a "Catholic hell" of eternal torment.
It is quick and effective in the work it is given to do.

It is a very literal cleansing, burning up, and utter eradication of all sin, on the earth as well as in the atmosphere and heavens (space) surrounding the earth. It is a fire that burns up all sin and traces of sin so God can create a new earth and heaven. That includes all the ruins of buildings, structures, pollutions, dead stuff, produced by this sinful world, including the devil and his angels and all who threw in their lot with the devil -- all will be burned up, and the earth will be clean.


The flood is an example:
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men...in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. ...they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

As far as God is concerned, there are always other choices. The problem is that the sinner has closed and locked the door upon themselves and that there is nothing else that God can do to change them and to keep them from choosing eternal death. They would rather not exist than to live in a universe that has the law of self sacrificing love. They have prevented themselves from any second chance. They have destroyed their ability to choose. God can't do anything else for them unless he takes away their freedom and forces salvation upon them, but they would find it torture to live in a universe based on self sacrificing love, and living in constant fear of what God should and thus think "sooner or later" do to them.

Now, are you saying that God's love, beauty, power and glory is too weak to cleanse the earth and that God needs something else that is strong enough to do it?

When the prophets saw God they felt like they were being burned alive, but found that they could not only survive the fire but thrived in it and hated to leave it. The lost refuses to have the life giving relationship with God that would lead to surviving and thriving in this fire. They pull back from the only source of life and thus are killed by the glory of God.

Basically I agree with you, though I kind of thought of it from a slightly different angle -- more from vindicating God's justice angle.
One of the reasons for this whole display of Christ enthroned, the panoramic viewing of all Christ did to save each and every person, and their rejection of it, was to show that even when it was all so graphically and wonderfully revealed to them. they will still turn away and reject salvation.

God fully understood the heart. and their omission from the book of life in the investigative judgment was 100% accurate, because they didn't want to be in God's kingdom, it was their choice.

It's true, when clothed with righteousness God's people will be very comfortable in the flaming glory of God's holiness. Those who cling to sin and refuse Christ's cleansing power can not survive in that flaming glory of God's holiness.

Also, God can do anything with just a Word. He doesn't need the fire, He can command the earth to be cleansed and it would be so.

However, God tends to use natural things, and scripture as well as Spirit of Prophecy depict a literal fire that fills the whole earth and burns everything up. Like the flood of Noah's time when it was a real flood of real water. (see 2 Peter 3) so in the end it will be a real fire.

It may even be using the weaponry the lost have created in preparation to take the city (after all, every modern weapon would be known to some in that vast crowd) When the lost turn their weapons on Satan who knows what they use? They could ignite a lot of fire!


"As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Water will never destroy the earth again, but the weapons of God are concealed in the bowels of the earth which he will draw forth to unite with the fire from heaven to accomplish his purpose in the destruction of all those who would not receive the message of warning and purify their souls in obeying the truth and being obedient to the laws of God. {ST Jan. 3, 1878}

What I bolded in your post just reminded me of a book I bought back in the later 1970s written by a SDA guy by the name of Rene Noorbergen titled Secrets of the Lost Races. I just picked it up yesterday and began reading it again. There is evidence of nuclear warfare in our earths history. They have found glassified stone walls in Scotland and acres of sand turned to glass in the Sinai desert. There is example after example of advanced technology the postdeluvian descendants of Noah were able to reconstruct after the flood. Noah had a light that shown like the sun which he hung from the roof of the ark. If we think about it he had to have had a light source bright enough to light the entire interior of the ark for any openings lift open would have let water into the ark during that terrific storm.

There are also examples of technology that have been covered up as they are considered to controversial to tell the public about.

I think it it is still possible to find copies of his book on lime used book stores such as thriftbooks,com. I've bought books from there for years and found them reliable,

I just looked and there is at least one copy of the book available,

We've discussed the need to understand the first four listed doctrines, which, when misunderstood, bar the way to understanding the investigative (pre-Advent) Judgment.

The fifth -- does the Bible say that God will judge prior to His second coming? The biggest resistance seems to come from the idea that Christians will be judged. Is this Biblical?
We teach that Christ is judging (whether they are genuine) all those who profess to follow Christ.
The wicked have already judged themselves. (john 3:18)

Many Christians, however, look to John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment; but is passed from death unto life, and will claim that verse to say those who believe in Christ will face no judgment.

We point out that the word "judgment" is often translated as "condemnation".
Those who believe in Christ and live lives in harmony with their calling will not be condemned in the judgment. In fact we want our names to come up in judgment,
Psalm 26:1-3 A Psalm of David. Judge me, O LORD; for I have walked in mine integrity: I have trusted also in the LORD; [therefore] I shall not slide. Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart. For thy lovingkindness [is] before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.

The investigative judgment is about determining who the genuine believers are, for many "come in My name saying "Lord, Lord," but they don't enter the kingdom. (see Matt. 7:21-23)

All these texts below teach about Judgment -- (you can share more if you like)
Which ones show that Christ does judge those that claim to be His people, to see if they are genuine?

i] Daniel 7:9-10; Heb 10:26-27; 1 Peter 4:17; Romans 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10; Eccl 3:17; Ez. 18:30-31; Acts 10:42; Romans 2:16; 2 Tim.4:1, Revelation 3:5[/i]