Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,615
Members1,323
|
Most Online5,850 Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: Garywk]
#196878
10/23/23 12:38 PM
10/23/23 12:38 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
|
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
|
|
Here is a quote from DA p. 752 and 753 on Jesus ransoming us. [*StrongsHebrew*] 1350 ga'al gaw-al' a primitive root, to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), i.e. to be the next of kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.):--X in any wise, X at all, avenger, deliver, (do, perform the part of near, next) kinsfolk(-man), purchase, ransom, redeem(-er), revenger. And now the Lord of glory was dying, a ransom for the race. In yielding up His precious life, Christ was not upheld by triumphant joy. All was oppressive gloom. It was not the dread of death that weighed upon Him. It was not the pain and ignominy of the cross that caused His inexpressible agony. Christ was the prince of suf- ferers; but His suffering was from a sense of the malignity of sin, a knowledge that through familiarity with evil, man had become [753] blinded to its enormity. Christ saw how deep is the hold of sin upon the human heart, how few would be willing to break from its power. He knew that without help from God, humanity must perish, and He saw multitudes perishing within reach of abundant help.
Last edited by Garywk; 10/23/23 12:39 PM.
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: Garywk]
#196879
10/23/23 02:36 PM
10/23/23 02:36 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
|
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
|
|
So how did Paul view salvation?
Galatians 3: 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
The word translated here as redeemed from Greek means:
[*StrongsGreek*] 1805 exagorazo ex-ag-or-ad'-zo from 1537 and 59; to buy up, i.e. ransom; figuratively, to rescue from loss (improve opportunity):--redeem. see GREEK for 1537 see GREEK for 59
Galatiand 4: 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Now notice that Paul brings in the concept of inheritance which we see in the OT,
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
The word inherit comes from a Greek word meaning the following.
[*StrongsGreek*] 2816 kleronomeo klay-ron-om-eh'-o from 2818; to be an heir to (literally or figuratively):--be heir, (obtain by) inherit(-ance). see GREEK for 2818
So Paul agrees with the OT on both the concepts of inheritance and and the concepts of being redeemed as well as the concept of being sold to do sin.
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: Garywk]
#196880
10/23/23 03:00 PM
10/23/23 03:00 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
|
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
|
|
Here is more from Ellen White's comments on Romans 2: 4 from SDABC. 4 (Acts 5:31). Repentance the First Fruits of the Spirit?s Working?Repentance for sin is the first fruits of the working of the Holy Spirit in the life. It is the only rocess by which infinite purity reflects the image of Christ in His redeemed subjects. In Christ all fullness dwells. Science that is not in harmony with Him is of no value. He teaches us to count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord. This knowledge is the highest science that any man can reach (Manuscript 28, 1905). Our ransom has been paid by our Saviour. No one need be enslaved by Satan. Christ stands before us as our divine example, our all-powerful Helper. We have been bought with a price that it is impossible to compute. Who can measure the goodness and mercy of redeeming love (Manuscript 76, 1903)? From comments on Romans 6: 23 from SDABC. 23. A Voice Heard in Heaven?Transgression placed the whole world in jeopardy, under the death sentence. But in heaven there was heard a voice saying, ?I have found a ransom? (Letter 22, 1900).
Last edited by Garywk; 10/23/23 03:26 PM.
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: Garywk]
#196881
10/23/23 06:50 PM
10/23/23 06:50 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
|
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
|
|
The idea behind to redeem is to ransom as they are synonyms. The scriptures use them interchangeably. Here are a bunch of times scripture uses the word ransom.
Exodus 30: 12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the Lord, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.*n7 13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the Lord.
Psalm 49: 6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; 7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: 8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever:)
Isiah 49: 10 And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
Matthew 20: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Timothy 2: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: Garywk]
#196885
10/24/23 12:56 PM
10/24/23 12:56 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
|
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
|
|
Now I have a question for you. I ran across this studying ga'al the first time and I don't believe I fully understand this yet. Proverbs 21: 18 The wicked shall be a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright. Isaiah 41: 3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. The Hebrew word translated as ransom in both verses is not ga'al but another word. [*StrongsHebrew*] 3724 kopher ko'-fer from 3722; properly, a cover, i.e. (literally) a village (as covered in); (specifically) bitumen (as used for coating), and the henna plant (as used for dyeing); figuratively, a redemption-price:--bribe, camphire, pitch, ransom, satisfaction, sum of money, village. see HEBREW for 03722 God said He paid a price for Israel. A price that by implication says He bargained with the devil. That doesn't go along with what I know of the character of God, but the wording is too clear to really question as He paid a redemption price for Israel that consisted of idolaters, the devil's subjects. in exchange for Israel,
Last edited by Garywk; 10/24/23 01:03 PM.
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: Garywk]
#196886
10/25/23 03:32 AM
10/25/23 03:32 AM
|
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
|
|
No -- there's no bargaining with the devil, it's about God working with justice.
Proverbs 21:18 has the same thought as Prov. 11:8. 21:18 The wicked [shall be] a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright. 11:8 The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead.
While the "righteous" who were facing destruction, are delivered, the wicked, on the contrary, fall to the same danger that threatened the righteous, and by their fall open the way for the righteous to be delivered.
Sinful human beings all have the death sentence against them. This brings to the godless destruction, while it opens the way for the righteous to be delivered. The atonement of Christ brings satisfaction to the law's required death penalty for sin, thus redeeming those who come to Him for forgiveness and cleansing. This delivers the upright from the wrath which passes them by, but the very fact they needed to be ransomed in order to escape the wrath, means those who rejected the atonement, the wicked, must receive the wrath.
The story of Haman and Mordecai in the book of Esther, illustrates this concepts. Haman, suffering the fate he planned for Mordecai, opened the way for Israel's deliverance. The story of the plagues illustrate it as well -- blood on the doorposts shielded the Israelites, but the plague fell on the Egyptians and this opened the way for Israel's deliverance. Cyrus put an end to Babylon, but this opened the way for Israel's release from captivity.
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: dedication]
#196887
10/25/23 08:39 AM
10/25/23 08:39 AM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
|
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
|
|
No -- there's no bargaining with the devil, it's about God working with justice.
Proverbs 21:18 has the same thought as Prov. 11:8. 21:18 The wicked [shall be] a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright. 11:8 The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead.
While the "righteous" who were facing destruction, are delivered, the wicked, on the contrary, fall to the same danger that threatened the righteous, and by their fall open the way for the righteous to be delivered.
Sinful human beings all have the death sentence against them. This brings to the godless destruction, while it opens the way for the righteous to be delivered. The atonement of Christ brings satisfaction to the law's required death penalty for sin, thus redeeming those who come to Him for forgiveness and cleansing. This delivers the upright from the wrath which passes them by, but the very fact they needed to be ransomed in order to escape the wrath, means those who rejected the atonement, the wicked, must receive the wrath.
The story of Haman and Mordecai in the book of Esther, illustrates this concepts. Haman, suffering the fate he planned for Mordecai, opened the way for Israel's deliverance. The story of the plagues illustrate it as well -- blood on the doorposts shielded the Israelites, but the plague fell on the Egyptians and this opened the way for Israel's deliverance. Cyrus put an end to Babylon, but this opened the way for Israel's release from captivity.
But your explanation is in conflict with the definition of ransom and a lot of scripture. Noun: ransom ran-sum
Money demanded for the return of a captured person - ransom money Payment for the release of someone The act of freeing from captivity or punishment
Verb: ransom ran-sum
(crime) exchange or buy back for money; under threat - redeem
Derived forms: ransomed, ransoms, ransoming
Type of: change, cost, defrayal, defrayment, exchange, interchange, payment, recovery, retrieval Isaiah 41: 3 is pretty hard to ignore. Isaiah 41: 3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. The entire law in Leviticus is about buying back that which was sold. Your explanation also is in conflict with the entire wording of the reason for, and effect of, the law in Leviticus. Scripture is very specific as it names different the nations involved. Also, scripture tells us that God required that the Isrelites were to redeem the first born of all their children and livestock because God had killed the first born of all the people and livestock in Egypt in the final plague as they were holy to Him because of the slaughter .of the first born of Egypt.
Last edited by Garywk; 10/25/23 08:51 AM.
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: Garywk]
#196888
10/25/23 06:58 PM
10/25/23 06:58 PM
|
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
|
|
Well if you see my explanation wrong -- What are you trying to say? Are you then interpreting scripture as saying the death of the wicked is the redemption price paid to save the forgiven, in Prov. 21:18 and 11:8 and that a righteous God would bargain with the Devil.?????? Are you saying God would offer the Devil nations x y z to destroy in exchange for other sinners He'd like to save??????
That' s not what I read in scripture. That's twisting the meaning into common sinful way of understanding what God's redemption is all about.
The atonement of Christ (the sinless One taking the penalty of the guilty) brings satisfaction to the law's required death penalty for sin, and it is ONLY this that redemption is offered to those who come to Him for forgiveness and cleansing. This is the ONLY thing that delivers the forgiven from the wrath that falls on sinners. That wrath passes them by because they are covered by the righteousness of Christ, but the very fact they needed to be ransomed in order to escape the wrath, means EVERYONE who rejected Christ's atonement, are not ransomed, and they will receive the wrath and face destruction.
.
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: dedication]
#196889
10/25/23 08:22 PM
10/25/23 08:22 PM
|
OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Veteran Member
|
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
|
|
Well if you see my explanation wrong -- What are you trying to say? Are you then interpreting scripture as saying the death of the wicked is the redemption price paid to save the forgiven, in Prov. 21:18 and 11:8 and that a righteous God would bargain with the Devil.?????? Are you saying God would offer the Devil nations x y z to destroy in exchange for other sinners He'd like to save??????
That' s not what I read in scripture. That's twisting the meaning into common sinful way of understanding what God's redemption is all about.
The atonement of Christ (the sinless One taking the penalty of the guilty) brings satisfaction to the law's required death penalty for sin, and it is ONLY this that redemption is offered to those who come to Him for forgiveness and cleansing. This is the ONLY thing that delivers the forgiven from the wrath that falls on sinners. That wrath passes them by because they are covered by the righteousness of Christ, but the very fact they needed to be ransomed in order to escape the wrath, means EVERYONE who rejected Christ's atonement, are not ransomed, and they will receive the wrath and face destruction.
. No. I'm saying what I said before. There is something here that I have thought about off and on for a decade and still do not understand. The definition of both redeem and ransom, as they are synonyms, and Isaiah 41: 3 and both texts in Proverbs all point to the same thing as does the description of the law in Leviticus. I don't see how and why God would play games with the devil but everything to do with the law of inheritance points to that. I can't just toss that out and contradict scripture. I'm caught on the horns of a dilemma. I guess I'll just have to wait some more for God to explain it to me as He's done this for me before. I haven't understood something and have just set it aside and it's been shown me when I've been researching another subject or just reading scripture. The light has just come on at some point. One time it took 30+ years before the answer was presented to me.
|
|
|
Re: How many here have studies theHebrew Concept of ga'al
[Re: Garywk]
#196892
10/26/23 05:23 PM
10/26/23 05:23 PM
|
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Canada
|
|
Just a thought -- Christ redeemed everyone, his sacrifice is all sufficient to take away every sinners sin. He met the demands of the law for every sinners death. None need die the second death.
BUT
Not all are ransomed. Why?
It's like this --- everyone in this world is in bondage to sin, they are "imprisoned" in sin. They are held hostage. Christ has the perfect key ready to give to everyone. The key was purchased at great price by Christ. He has redeemed them, he has met all requirements' for their release. BUT the hostages must now accept the key in order for the ransom to take effect and be released. The devil is holding them, doing his best to keep them from reaching out and taking the key of redemption. The Holy Spirit is doing His best to encourage them to take the key, accept the ransom price and be free in Christ.
When Christ made provision for redemption He took the sins of the whole world upon Himself, the ransom price was made available to free every person. But those who refused to accept the ransom Christ provided for them, must pay their own ransom price. They will "pay" not only for their own sins but be punished for all the sins they caused the redeemed to commit. The Azazel ritual on the day of atonement shows the antagonists will bear punishment for sins they CAUSED others to commit in their attempts to hold them hostage. (See PP 358+)
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|