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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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What Does "Ye Must Be Born Again" Mean & Involve?
#31941
04/16/03 03:20 AM
04/16/03 03:20 AM
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Nicodemus had an interesting visit and conversation with Jesus as quoted in part below: quote:
John 3 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Nicodemus asked how can these things be, or what does this mean. What then does it mean?
Is being born again instantaneous? Is it progressive? Is it the work of a lifetime? Are there conditions, and, if so, what? What does being born again involve?
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Re: What Does "Ye Must Be Born Again" Mean & Involve?
#31942
04/16/03 07:38 PM
04/16/03 07:38 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Rebirth is a process and a product. We are born again morally perfect. We begin at rebirth where Jesus began at birth.
1. The wind is heard among the branches of the trees, rustling the leaves and flowers; yet it is invisible, and no man knows whence it comes or whither it goes. So with the work of the Holy Spirit upon the heart. It can no more be explained than can the movements of the wind. A person may not be able to tell the exact time or place, or to trace all the circumstances in the process of conversion; but this does not prove him to be unconverted. By an agency as unseen as the wind, Christ is constantly working upon the heart. Little by little, perhaps unconsciously to the receiver, impressions are made that tend to draw the soul to Christ. These may be received through meditating upon Him, through reading the Scriptures, or through hearing the word from the living preacher. Suddenly, as the Spirit comes with more direct appeal, the soul gladly surrenders itself to Jesus. By many this is called sudden conversion; but it is the result of long wooing by the Spirit of God,--a patient, protracted process. {DA 172.3}
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Re: What Does "Ye Must Be Born Again" Mean & Involve?
#31943
04/16/03 07:46 PM
04/16/03 07:46 PM
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But isn't there something we need to do in order to be born again?
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Re: What Does "Ye Must Be Born Again" Mean & Involve?
#31944
04/18/03 03:15 AM
04/18/03 03:15 AM
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I guess I would have more questions than answers on this, so I'll throw them into the mix.
1.)Is rebirth the same as or different from "conversion"? Why or why not? If different, how is it different?
2.) Is rebirth the same as or different from "being saved" or "salvation"? Why or why not? If different, how is it different?
3.) What about justification? And sanctification? How do these terms compare to or differ from rebirth and/or conversion?
4.)If rebirth or conversion is a process what effect does that process have on our status of being saved while the process is continuing? How quickly and at what point does salvation occur? Are there degrees of salvation? Could one be described as being more saved the further along in the process one finds themselves? How would one know or is that even for us to know?
5.) Assuming this process as being ongoing over a period of time, what happens to one's salvation if there is a delay in the process? Or a setback?
6.) Are these just issues of sematics? Are we attempting to make distinctions without any substantive difference? Why or why not?
7.) Is salvation as simple as Paul and Silas stated it to the jailor, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved"? Are we making salvation more complicated and difficult than it was intended to be?
8.) What difference does knowing all these minute details do to add to our salvation? How essential is it for us to be able to exactly dissect and perfectly understand all of the details of salvation? Are we attempting remove any need for faith and trust in what is truly beyond our comprehension?
9.) How do all of the answers to the above harmonize or conflict with relationship theology?
10.) Last (for now) and most importantly, how did Jesus explain it? Does the light burden and easy yoke have anything to do with all of the above? Doesn't becoming like a little child speak of the simplicity of salvation?
11.) ... and the list goes on.
Tom
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Re: What Does "Ye Must Be Born Again" Mean & Involve?
#31945
04/17/03 04:40 PM
04/17/03 04:40 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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1.)Is rebirth the same as or different from "conversion"? Why or why not? If different, how is it different?
Rebirth and converted have shared meaning. The word "conversion" must be defined by the context. It is either a process or a product.
2.) Is rebirth the same as or different from "being saved" or "salvation"? Why or why not? If different, how is it different?
Rebirth and salvation occur simultaneously. We are saved when we are born again.
3.) What about justification? And sanctification? How do these terms compare to or differ from rebirth and/or conversion?
We are justified and sanctified when we are born again. Sanctification continues throughout eternity as we mature in the fruits of the Spirit.
4.)If rebirth or conversion is a process what effect does that process have on our status of being saved while the process is continuing? How quickly and at what point does salvation occur? Are there degrees of salvation? Could one be described as being more saved the further along in the process one finds themselves? How would one know or is that even for us to know?
Salvation (i.e., eternal life) is the same for everyone. But our reward in heaven varies. Some have more stars on their crown. We are unsaved until we are born again.
5.) Assuming this process as being ongoing over a period of time, what happens to one's salvation if there is a delay in the process? Or a setback?
If we refuse to confess and forsake our sins we are unsaved. We are not unsaved on account of unknown sins.
6.) Are these just issues of sematics? Are we attempting to make distinctions without any substantive difference? Why or why not?
Semantics and definitions are important, it's how we communicate the truth.
7.) Is salvation as simple as Paul and Silas stated it to the jailor, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved"? Are we making salvation more complicated and difficult than it was intended to be?
To believe in Jesus is to behave like Jesus. John 14:12.
8.) What difference does knowing all these minute details do to add to our salvation? How essential is it for us to be able to exactly dissect and perfectly understand all of the details of salvation? Are we attempting remove any need for faith and trust in what is truly beyond our comprehension?
We must understand the truth about rebirth, conversion and moral perfection, otherwise the truth cannot set us free.
9.) How do all of the answers to the above harmonize or conflict with relationship theology?
Relationship and rebirth are inseparable. One is not possible without the other.
10.) Last (for now) and most importantly, how did Jesus explain it? Does the light burden and easy yoke have anything to do with all of the above? Doesn't becoming like a little child speak of the simplicity of salvation?
The chapter in DA on Nicodemus and Steps to Christ explains Jesus' teachings on this subject very nicely.
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Re: What Does "Ye Must Be Born Again" Mean & Involve?
#31946
05/05/03 09:09 PM
05/05/03 09:09 PM
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quote:
Mike posted: The chapter in DA on Nicodemus and Steps to Christ explains Jesus' teachings on this subject very nicely.
Then, Mike, why don't you share the findings in those books here, which will now be in the Christian Living forum?
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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