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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#31997
04/23/03 07:10 PM
04/23/03 07:10 PM
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Active Member 2014
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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quote:
Harnessing the Mind.--All are free moral agents, and as such they must bring their thoughts to run in the right channel. Here is a wide field in which the mind can safely range. If Satan seeks to divert the mind to low and sensual things, bring it back again and place it on eternal things; and when the Lord sees the determined effort made to retain only pure thoughts, He will attract the mind, like the magnet, purify the thoughts, and enable them to cleanse themselves from every secret sin. "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5). {2MCP 595.2}
I praise God for the Spirit of Prophecy and the message above. I use to have a very bad time with my thoughts, etc. Then one day the I read the quote above and put it into practice. It did not happen all at once but everytime my mind wandered to things not pure and holy I would sing a pray, sing, etc. Then one day I noticed that my thoughts were more and more where they should be. Amen
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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#31998
04/25/03 04:19 AM
04/25/03 04:19 AM
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Permit me to return to the question "Why did Jesus say 'Go and sin no more'?"
I would suggest there is more than one type of sin. By saying "sin no more" to the woman, Jesus was obviously referring to the type of sin which is an action--something we do as opposed to what we are. Salvation comes to us in three phases:
Salvation from the penalty of sin,
Salvation from the power of sin,
Salvation from the presence of sin.
These are usually labeled Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification. Basically when we accept Jesus as Saviour, we are justified. That is we join God's team, our sins are all forgiven, God accepts us as His child, and we are saved. But generally speaking, we know little or nothing about the lifestyle of heaven. We enter a learning phase which we label sanctification--that lifetime experience Mrs. White speaks about in which we learn to live correctly. In this phase, just like a new-born child we make mistakes, we do things wrong, we test the limits, etc. These are our actions. How much of this do we label sin? If we misunderstand an instruction or do something the wrong way, does that make us a sinner? It is my opinion that these are not sins at all. The only action which can legitimately be labeled sin are those actions which bring harm to ourselves, our neighbor, or to our God and His cause. Ignoring those evil actions which are done knowingly and deliberately (they revert us back to "lawlessness"), most harmful actions are done ignorantly. It is these God is trying to inform us about and teach us to avoid. It was in this vein I believe Jesus was telling the woman to avoid the trouble she had gotten into. I believe He is telling us the same thing: "This is what is hurting you, quit doing it, or this is what is hurting your neighbor or Me, quit doing it!" The Bible seems to indicate the woman was already one of Jesus diciples, she just got caught in or more likely tricked into a bad situation.
This type of sin (action) is in a different catagory from attitude type of sin in I John 3:6 ("No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning") or verse 9 ("No one who is born of God will continue to sin") (see v 4).
Bob Lee
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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#31999
04/26/03 02:43 PM
04/26/03 02:43 PM
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Full Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 148
Naches, WA
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Here's a few things to keep in mind on this topic: quote:
"For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body." James 3:2 nkjv.
"Let us remember that we are struggling and falling, failing in speech and action to represent Christ, falling and rising again, despairing and hoping. Let us beware of dealing unkindly with those who, like ourselves, are subjects of temptation and who, like ourselves also, are the objects of Christ's unfailing love." 9T 222.
"We shall often have to bow down and weep at the feet of Jesus because of our shortcomings and mistakes, but we are not to be discouraged. Even if we are overcome by the enemy, we are not cast off, not forsaken and rejected of God. No; Christ is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Said the beloved John, "These things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." 1 John 2:1. And do not forget the words of Christ, "The Father Himself loveth you." John 16:27. He desires to restore you to Himself, to see His own purity and holiness reflected in you. And if you will but yield yourself to Him, He that hath begun a good work in you will carry it forward to the day of Jesus Christ." SC 64.
"The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature." SC 64.
"Man has fallen; and it will be the work of a lifetime, be it longer or shorter, to recover from that fall, and regain, through Christ, the image of the divine, which he lost by sin and continued transgression." 2T 448,
"The characters formed in this life will determine the future destiny. When Christ shall come, He will not change the character of any individual. Precious, probationary time is given to be improved in washing our robes of character and making them white in the blood of the Lamb. To remove the stains of sin requires the work of a lifetime. Every day renewed efforts in restraining and denying self are needed. Every day there are new battles to fight and victories to be gained. Every day the soul should be called out in earnest pleading with God for the mighty victories of the cross." 4T 429.
"At every stage of development our life may be perfect; yet if God's purpose for us is fulfilled, there will be continual advancement. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime." COL 65.
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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#32000
04/26/03 09:19 PM
04/26/03 09:19 PM
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![[Thank You]](graemlins/thanks.gif) Welcome, Stan, to Maritime SDA OnLine! I am happy to see that you accepted my personal invitation to join us here. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif) Thank you also for those quotes. In light of this topic what do those quotes mean? Are they saying that we can actually reach the point of sinning no more? If so, when?
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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#32001
04/26/03 11:35 PM
04/26/03 11:35 PM
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SDA
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Active Member 2020
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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Yes Welcome Stan, and thank you for those quotes. My son, 13 is having trouble accepting the idea of perfection. With those quotes in mind that you posted above, all I could tell him is that God promises to change us to be like Him, but those who are the furthest along that road of sanctification are the last to say "I am perfect". Fortunately, my father-in-law is one of those who is far along, and I said to my son, it's a mystery of how God does it, and even the smartest pastor's have trouble explaining it, but in addition to the Bible's promises that sin will not have dominion over us, we have the lives of people like your grandfather, so we know it works!
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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#32002
04/27/03 04:23 PM
04/27/03 04:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 148
Naches, WA
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Thanks for the welcomes, Daryl and Mark. I do enjoy, and benefit from, dialog on Bible topics. Here are some additional important quotes for this thread that may help answer Daryl's question: quote:
"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory..." Jude 1:24.
"He who has not sufficient faith in Christ to believe that he can keep him from sinning, has not the faith that will give him an entrance into the kingdom of God." EGW in RH 3-10-1904.
Now let's put that in context:
quote:
The humility that bears fruit, filling the soul with a sense of the love of God, will speak for the one who has cherished it, in the great day when men will be rewarded according as their works have been. Happy will be the one of whom it can then be said, "The Spirit never stirred this man's soul in vain. He went forward and upward from strength to strength. Self was not woven into his life. Each message of correction and counsel he received as a blessing from God. Thus the way was prepared for him to receive still greater blessings, because God did not speak to him in vain. Each step upward on the ladder of progress prepared him to climb still higher. From the top of the ladder the bright beams of God's glory shone upon him. He did not think of resting, but sought constantly to attain to the wisdom and righteousness of Christ. Ever he pressed toward the mark of the prize of his high calling in Christ."
This experience every one who is saved must have. In the day of judgment the course of the man who has retained the frailty and imperfection of humanity will not be vindicated. For him there will be no place in heaven; he could not enjoy the perfection of the saints in light. He who has not sufficient faith in Christ to believe that he can keep him from sinning, has not the faith that will give him an entrance into the kingdom of God. EGW in RH 3-10-1904.
I will explain further in the next post.
Stan
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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#32003
04/27/03 10:27 PM
04/27/03 10:27 PM
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Full Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 148
Naches, WA
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quote:
Christ had two natures, the nature of a man and the nature of God. In him divinity and humanity were combined. Upon his mediatorial work hangs the hope of the perishing world. NO ONE but Christ has ever succeeded in living a perfect life, in living a pure, spotless character. He exhibited a perfect humanity, COMBINED WITH DIETY, and by preserving each nature distinct, he has given to the world a representation of the character of God and the character of a perfect man. He shows us what God is, and WHAT MAN MAY BECOME--godlike in character. EGW in the General Conference Bulletin 10-1-1899.
Christ came to make us "partakers of the divine nature," and His life declares that HUMANITY, COMBINED WITH DIVINITY, DOES NOT COMMIT SIN. (Repeat, “HUMANITY, COMBINED WITH DIVINITY, DOES NOT COMMIT SIN”!). MH 180.
Keep in mind that Christ did NOT overcome in His own divine nature. He “emptied Himself” and was then strengthened to overcome by the same power promised to us — the power of the Holy Spirit. HUMANITY AND DIVINITY COMBINED:
quote:
To Jesus, who emptied Himself (Phil 2:7) for the salvation of lost humanity, the Holy Spirit was given without measure (John 3:34). So it will be given to every follower of Christ when the whole heart is surrendered for His indwelling (Luke 11:13). Our Lord Himself has given the command, "Be filled with the Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18), and this command is also a promise of its fulfillment. It was the good pleasure of the Father that in Christ should "all the FULLNESS dwell," and "in Him ye are made full." Colossians 1:19, R.V.; 2:10, R.V. MB 20.
The indwelling of the Spirit will be shown by the outflowing of heavenly LOVE. The divine fullness will flow through the consecrated human agent, to be given forth to others….The religion of Christ means more than the forgiveness of sin; it means taking away our sins, and filling the vacuum with the graces of the Holy Spirit. It means divine illumination, rejoicing in God. It means a heart emptied of self, and blessed with the abiding presence of Christ. COL 419.
Just in proportion as we empty the soul temple of self-sufficiency, self-dependence, and self-exaltation, will we realize the work that needs to be done to purify the soul, body, and spirit before we can be filled with all the fulness of God. When this work is done the power of God will be revealed, and the truth will be a mighty power in enlightening the mind, sanctifying the soul and spirit. Then genuine conversions will be made to Bible truth. EGW in Bible Training School 10-1-1910.
Paul prayed that we might be, "strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man...that WE might be filled with all the FULLNESS of God," among other things. Ephesians 3:14-19. Since this gives us the power for victorious living, we need to pray more for the Holy Spirit to work in our lives.
quote:
And this I pray, that your LOVE may abound yet MORE AND MORE in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and WITHOUT OFFENCE till the day of Christ. Philippians 1:9-10.
And the Lord make you to INCREASE and abound in LOVE one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: To the end he may establish your hearts UNBLAMEABLE in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. 1 Thes 3:12-13.
LOVE to man is the earthward manifestation of the LOVE of God. It was to implant this LOVE, to make us children of one family, that the King of glory became one with us. And when His parting words are fulfilled, "LOVE one another, as I have loved you" (John 15:12); WHEN WE LOVE the world as He has loved it, then for us His mission is accomplished. WE ARE FITTED FOR HEAVEN; for we have heaven in our hearts. DA 641.
While our love will continually grow throughout eternity (MH 466; EGW in RH 10-22-1908), notice that it will “eventually” become the primary motive in the church in a general way:
quote:
THE CHURCH is the repository of the riches of the grace of Christ; and through THE CHURCH will eventually be made manifest, even to "the principalities and powers in heavenly places," the final and full display of the LOVE of God. Ephesians 3:10. AA 9.
While we see many problem areas in the church, let’s remember promises like this to give us encouragement. Bailing out is not the answer.
Stan
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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#32004
04/29/03 04:30 PM
04/29/03 04:30 PM
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SDA
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Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Jesus' promise is - Be perfect even as God is perfect. He didn't say, Go and work on becoming perfect. He simply said, Be perfect. There is a huge difference between being perfect and becoming perfect. And Jesus said, Be perfect. So who are we to argue with God?
Obviously Jesus' promise of moral purity and perfection has nothing to do with our sinful nature or our moral strengths or weaknesses. Nor does it depend on years of sinning and repenting less and less until we're too old to care. The promises of God do not depend on old age.
People who argue against God's promises are serving the wrong side of the great controversy. Either Jesus' promises of perfection are true or they are not. If they are true then God is right. If they're not then Satan is right. The sooner the world can take sides the sooner Jesus can return.
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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#32005
04/29/03 05:18 PM
04/29/03 05:18 PM
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Active Member 2014
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Amen Mike...God has not told us to "try and be perfect". He tells us to "be perfect" I like this Spirit of Prophecy quote that talks about this and shows us that it is through Jesus we can become perfect in our sphere as He was perfect in His sphere. It is all a matter of what we are choosing to do. We can either choose to sin or choose not to sin. It is really that simple. So how come we as humans have such a problem with this? I think it is because deep down we like what we are doing and do not want to give it up so we hang on to this saying, "I am only human". Well Jesus was human also...and he overcame...How? quote:
Perfection Now?
God's Amazing Grace
Page 230
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48.\
When God gave His Son to the world, He made it possible for men and women to be perfect by the use of every capability of their beings to the glory of God. In Christ He gave to them the riches of His grace, and a knowledge of His will. As they would empty themselves of self, and learn to walk in humility, leaning on God for guidance, men would be enabled to fulfill God's high purpose for them.
Perfection of character is based upon that which Christ is to us. If we have constant dependence on the merits of our Saviour, and walk in His footsteps, we shall be like Him, pure and undefiled.
Our Saviour does not require impossibilities of any soul. He expects nothing of His disciples that He is not willing to give them grace and strength to perform. He would not call upon them to be perfect if He had not at His command every perfection of grace to bestow on the ones upon whom He would confer so high and holy a privilege. . . .
Our work is to strive to attain in our sphere of action the perfection that Christ in His life on the earth attained in every phase of character. He is our example. In all things we are to strive to honor God in character. . . . We are to be wholly dependent on the power that He has promised to give us.
Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was.
Our Saviour is a Saviour for the perfection of the whole man. He is not the God of part of the being only. The grace of Christ works to the disciplining of the whole human fabric. He made all. He has redeemed all. He has made the mind, the strength, the body as well as the soul, partaker of the divine nature, and all is His purchased possession. He must be served with the whole mind, heart, soul, and strength. Then the Lord will be glorified in His saints in even the common, temporal things with which they are connected. "Holiness unto the Lord" will be in the inscription placed upon them.
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Re: Can We Actually Go And Sin No More?
#32006
04/29/03 09:53 PM
04/29/03 09:53 PM
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Maybe one of the reasons we argue so much over the text "Be ye therefore perfect", is because it might be expressing Christ's goal for us, his wish for us. Maybe some of us mistake it to mean that Christ requires us to be perfect, or else.
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