Tammy,

Aren't there other nearby SDA churches that you can attend?

Also, did you approach the pastors wife regarding what happened to you and others in what you saw in relation to her low cut dress?

This is the most conservative church within probably a hundred miles every direction.

Yes, 6 months ago, I emailed a copy of "The Ribbon of Blue" to the Pastor, as I overheard him say he was going to speak on "Dress Reform" in an upcoming sermon. So, I emailed it to him and told him that it might give him some food for his sermon and asked him to share it with his wife. I said I would like to give a copy of it to all the women in the church. He became very angry with me for sharing it with him....

I've pretty much given up on conference churches...homechurch is looking better all the time.

Did he ever give a sermon on dress reform? It would have been interesting what he would have said about it in his sermon.

No...no sermon...how could he? He preaches in very vague words, so that liberals can read into it what they want, and conservatives read into what they want, that way, they both come away from the sermon thinking he preached the truth...very deceptive....

Tammy, what would you do if an under-dressed lady was interested in learning about Jesus at your home church? Would you instruct her on how not to dress? Or, would you first demonstrate the love of God by accepting her as she is, and then lead her into all truth?

I'm not asking this question to condone under-dressed church members who should know better, especially the pastor's wife. However, times have changed. Most members have never heard of dress reform, including pastors and their wives. Short skirts and low cut blouses are commonplace in the world and in the church.

Most men I talked to about it don't even notice it. It's like going into an African village where women go around topless and no one thinks about it. It's not an issue. The people who worry about it, nowadays, seem to be the ones who cannot control impure thoughts, which sadly seems to be those who hold up the highest standards.

I wonder why it is like that? Why does it seem to bother the most godly in the church and yet it seems not to phase the most worldly in the church?

A possible answer is that the worldly may be desensitized to it. Just as smokers are not bothered by 2nd-hand smoke, those who are accustomed to indulging impure thoughts are not bothered by temptations to indulge impure thoughts.

If you look at it that way, you might see why the ones who are not bothered may be those who cannot, or will not, control impure thoughts. OTOH, those who are intent on controlling impure thoughts, and crucifying self, are very sensitive to that which wars against their souls.

Jesus, our Example, reacted this way: "... as the sinless one His nature recoiled from evil..." {SC 93.4} I think it bothers Him. So you shouldn't wonder why it bothers godly church members; they're in good company.

Plus, if something bothers the godly, but is accepted by the worldly, you should really stop and consider if that thing is good for your soul. "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." James 4:4

Yeah, I know what you mean. Please don't misunderstand me. I knew I was taking a risk in my last post. Again, I am not "condoning under-dressed" women or men. Nor am I trying to say ungodly members who choose not to control impure impure thoughts are setting a standard we should adopt. Please hear me.

I am talking specifically about people who are not bothered by impure thoughts when they see under-dressed members in church. As you say, they are desensitized, and it takes a lot more nudity to tempt them. Of course there are those who get aroused no matter what. Between these two kinds of people lies the majority.

I'm not so sure being desensitized is "evil". The dress reform Sister White spoke about totally condemns what we think is modest nowadays. Women wearing pants was considered evil even by worldly standards. But today when we see women wearing modest pants it does not tempt us with impure thoughts.

Why the change?

Mountain Man, one of the biggest reasons the church is in the condition it is, is because it employs so many Pastors that are soft on sin, like you.

Yes, times have changed, but God's standard hasn't changed at all. What was immodest before, is STILL immodest today, whether you are in the US or in Africa. The people in Africa who run around with no clothes are not the ones who have become Christians, they are the heathens...soon as they become Christians, they put modest clothes on...just like the two demon possessed men whom Jesus healed.

I find that hard to believe...we are talking about women who are members, not worldly women. And your very next words show that you are making an excuse for female members of the church, including Pastor's wives.

I have to say, you really anger me with statements like this. I don't know why you bother calling yourself an Adventist Pastor. You need to read the Spirit of Prophecy, cause if you did, you wouldn't be saying things like this.



Our churches have become demoralized, because we have too many Pastors like you, who see no need to raise the standard. Not only do you see no need to raise it, you accuse those who do raise it of being .

[Excellent point, Asyago: quote]Jesus, our Example, reacted this way: "... as the sinless one His nature recoiled from evil..." {SC 93.4} I think it bothers Him. So you shouldn't wonder why it bothers godly church members; they're in good company. [/quote]

By your own admission, you are admitting you are among . You have no business being a Pastor.

Another false statement to support your liberal, worldly stand. It doesn't matter if it is Africa or the US, all people, whether in the world or in the church, know that men are turned on by nudity.

If you weren't an Adventist Pastor, I wouldn't speak so plain, but you are, and by your influence, you are leading many men to hell. I had no respect for you before, so I can't say I lost any here...but you have definently confirmed me in what kind of Christian I thought you were before.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself...I can promise you, God is ashamed of you. You ought to quit "playing church".

Tammy, your accusations are unjustified. Please read my last two posts more carefully. I am simply stating the obvious, but by doing so I am not lowering the standard. I am fully sold on dress reform, but not exactly the way it is described in the SOP. I feel it is okay for women to wear modest pants nowadays. Do you agree? Or, do you think it is immodest and unholy?

Hmm, lets see here, I read something like this before in my overview study of christian thought. I think this idea might first have been raised by a group known as Donatists. Nothing new under the sun is there?