In the winter the Hebrew's were allowed to have fires for warmth. The man was gathering sticks in a season when that was not the case, he was deliberately doing what God had both forbidden and explained why. He was defying God deliberately.

Numbers 15:
22 ¶ And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses,
23 Even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations;
24 Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering.
25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
30 ¶ But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
37 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:
39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:
40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.
41 I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD your God.

"The mixed multitude that came up with the Israelites from Egypt were a source of continual temptation and trouble. They professed to have renounced idolatry and to worship the true God; but their early education and training had molded their habits and character, and they were more or less corrupted with idolatry and with irreverence for God. They were oftenest the ones to stir up strife and were the first to complain, and they leavened the camp with their idolatrous practices and their murmurings against God. {PP 408.3}

Soon after the return into the wilderness, an instance of Sabbath violation occurred, under circumstances that rendered it a case of peculiar guilt. The Lord's announcement that He would disinherit Israel had roused a spirit of rebellion. One of the people, angry at being excluded from Canaan, and determined to show his defiance of God's law, ventured upon the open transgression of the fourth commandment by going out to gather sticks upon the Sabbath. During the sojourn in the wilderness the kindling of fires upon the seventh day had been strictly prohibited. The prohibition was not to extend to the land of Canaan, where the severity of the climate would often render fires a necessity; but in the wilderness, fire was not needed for warmth. The act of this man was a willful and deliberate violation of the fourth commandment--a sin, not of thoughtlessness or ignorance, but of presumption. {PP 408.4}

He was taken in the act and brought before Moses. It had already been declared that Sabbathbreaking should be punished with death, but it had not yet been revealed how the penalty was to be inflicted. The case was brought by Moses before the Lord, and the direction was given, "The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp." Numbers 15:35. The sins of blasphemy and willful Sabbathbreaking received the same punishment, being equally an expression of contempt for the authority of God. {PP 409.1}

In our day there are many who reject the creation Sabbath as a Jewish institution and urge that if it is to be kept, the penalty of death must be inflicted for its violation; but we see that blasphemy received the same punishment as did Sabbathbreaking. Shall we therefore conclude that the third commandment also is to be set aside as applicable only to the Jews? Yet the argument drawn from the death penalty applies to the third, the fifth, and indeed to nearly all the ten precepts, equally with the fourth. Though God may not now punish the transgression of His law with temporal penalties, yet His word declares that the wages of sin is death; and in the final execution of the judgment it will be found that death is the portion of those who violate His sacred precepts. {PP 409.2}

During the entire forty years in the wilderness, the people were every week reminded of the sacred obligation of the Sabbath, by the miracle of the manna. Yet even this did not lead them to obedience. Though they did not venture upon so open and bold transgression as had received such signal punishment, yet there was great laxness in the observance of the fourth commandment. God declares through His prophet, "My Sabbaths they greatly polluted." Ezekiel 20:13-24. And this is enumerated among the reasons for the exclusion of the first generation from the Promised Land. Yet their children did not learn the lesson. Such was their neglect of the Sabbath during the forty years' wandering, that though God did not prevent them from entering Canaan, He declared that they should be scattered among the heathen after the settlement in the Land of Promise. {PP 409.3}

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Edward F Sutton

From a portion of Ed's post:

quote:

---

Soon after the return into the wilderness, an instance of Sabbath violation occurred, under circumstances that rendered it a case of peculiar guilt. The Lord's announcement that He would disinherit Israel had roused a spirit of rebellion. One of the people, angry at being excluded from Canaan, and determined to show his defiance of God's law, ventured upon the open transgression of the fourth commandment by going out to gather sticks upon the Sabbath. During the sojourn in the wilderness the kindling of fires upon the seventh day had been strictly prohibited. The prohibition was not to extend to the land of Canaan, where the severity of the climate would often render fires a necessity; but in the wilderness, fire was not needed for warmth. The act of this man was a willful and deliberate violation of the fourth commandment--a sin, not of thoughtlessness or ignorance, but of presumption. {PP 408.4}

---

This answers my question about the man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. It was the reason why he did it rather than it simply being the act itself. Does this, therefore, mean that we can do anything we want to do on the Sabbath, if our motive for doing it is right?

__________________________
Psalms 119:165 "Great peace
have they which love thy law:
and nothing shall offend them."

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited April 23, 2001).]

Would it be too bold to suggest that if your motive is right, you would want to do "right" things? So therefore the answer to your question, Daryl, would be yes, if your motive is right, you can do anything you want on Sabbath. Wouldn't that make the Sabbath a pure delight, doing only what you want to? Praise the Lord!!!!

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And the second is like it . . .

The man's actions were as wrong as his intentions. The knowledge he defied was given by the word of God through prophets. His motives and his actions were both rebellious. The Philistines moved the ark of the covenant on a cart. That was forbidden, but they did not have any opportunity to know that. The Hebrews did. Not just motives involved but revealed knowledge.

Deuteronomy 29:
29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

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Edward F Sutton

I keep seeing Christ's healing on Sabbath brought up, whether it was necessary or not.
The purpose of His healing on Sabbath was made apparent several times.
1)Mark 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

On the surface, this could relate to any problem of any kind, but, if we look at it in context we see the whole story:

1 ¶ And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

You see, He was setting a test of the heart condition of His listeners, and opening their eyes to the spirit iof the Sabbath commandment.
They had placed so many restrictions on what you could and couldn't do on the Lord's Sabbath, it had become a 'millstone' around the peoples necks.

2)Matthew 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Luke 14:5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?

The leaders of the nation of Isreal would not hesitate to remove an animal from a pit on the sabbath, but, they would not think of lifting a finger to help their fellow man.Matthew 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

And the story in Luke is like it:
Luke 14:1 ¶ And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.
2 And, behold, there was a certain man before him which had the dropsy.
3 And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
4 And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him, and let him go;
5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
6 And they could not answer him again to these things.

Could not? Or would not out of the hardness of their hearts?

The main purpose of the Sabbath healings was to open the eyes of the Pharisees, and other leaders, to the way they were treating the 'apple' of God's eye, His crowning creation, man.

They were more concerned with temporal things and not at all about spiritual.

My $0.02

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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2

Excellent post Gerry

The only difference I may have is your statement that the MAIN reason Christ healed on the Sabbath is to teach the theologians a lesson. I still read the story as portraying Christ's love for man being the focus, but He was able to use the experience to show that this love trumped the restrictive rules and limited attitude of those who saw, and those of us who read. Christ's ministry focused on love. Therefore our ministry needs to do the same. And we, as the theologians of Christ's day, need to learn that unselfish love exhibited by action should not be considered sin, no matter what day that action is exhibited. Keep in mind that I believe the focus is unselfish love, or motive, or why we do the action.

I went to the Strong's dictionary and looked up the word work as used in the 4th commandment, it dealt with our secular employment.

The day to day activity of earning a living.
We are to lay aside our working for a living, employment in other words.
That is where we make a mistake, we are also not to seek our own pleasure (things we do any other time).

I heard Elder Brooks speak one time about working on the sabbath, he said we are not to just lay around doing nothing, there is a work we can do on sabbath, relieve the suffering of others, meet the need of others, open our heart to those that have a need of understanding and share the love of Christ with everybody.
If a neighbors roof is blown off on sabbath, do something to keep the weather out, make the house comfortable and safe from the weather, I'm not advocating putting a roof on, just keepimg the weather out.
If you see an eldery person along the road with a flat tire or out of gas, stop and help them, don't leave them standing there( younger ones as well)

Like I said in the SDA Today forum, lack of planning on your/my part does not constitute an emergency on God's part.
There are things that happen unexpectedly, meet the need.

But just because we want something doesn't mean we need it.
Needs are to be met when needed, wants can wait until a better time to be met.

Gerry,

The phrase "seeking your own pleasure" is not the best translation as its contemporary meaning is quite different than in the time of King James. (See my early post on Isaiah 58) A better translation in more contemporary expression is perhaps "doing as you please" or quite simply, being selfish or doing something for selfish reasons. The context in Isaiah 58 puts a distinct meaning on that phrase as used in Isaiah 58:13 regarding the Sabbath. The very same phrase is used earlier in the chapter, with an explaination of what it means regarding fasting. See what God, through the prophet Isaiah, said He meant in that context in verses 3-4 when He said "doing as you please." "Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please and exploit your workers. Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife and striking each other with wicked fists." And in case that isn't clear enough then continue on in verses 6-7 to see the contrasting behavior or how God truly wants us to worship Him, by correcting injustice, setting free the oppressed, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, finding shelter for the homeless and we are to start our kindness in our own household.

It has absolutely nothing to do with recreational activity or doing something you enjoy. Otherwise enjoying worshiping in Church, eating a good meal, enjoying a nature walk all would be breaking the Sabbath, because I find pleasure and satisfaction in doing all of them. Understanding the phrase wrongly also renders verse 13 self-contradicting by first saying don't do anything pleasurable and then instructing us to call the Sabbath a delight. By understanding the context it really makes much sense. So go out and enjoy yourself on Sabbath! And nothing brings greater joy and satisfaction than to help someone by easing their burdens, whatever they may be. Don't be selfish - share a Sabbath day's blessing with somebody. No emergency is necessary.

Tom

It seems to me that this Sabbath issue has become complicated in this thread. But in my mind, it remains simple.

-- Rest. Don't plan to work. If an emergency happens where someone needs your help, then work work work to help your neighbor out of his jam.

-- The day is "hallowed" by God Himself. Honor Him by recoginizing His presence. Be relaxed in Him. Confer with Him. If you feel led, read the Bible, or mediate on the scriptures you've already been reading all week.

-- A person who does physical labor all week might be inclined to be less active on the Sabbath.

-- A person who is sedentary all week might be inclined to be more physically active on the Sabbath.

No matter what anyone says, the issue remains so simple to me.

Sometimes it takes me a while to get my thoughts out. This is one of them.
I know what I want to say, but, it doesn't come out the way I expect it to.

By seeking our own pleasure, I had in mind playing games, amusing ourselves to the exclusion of others.
Doing as we please without regard to the consequences.

Sabbath is a day of rest form our earning a living, not being guided by the urge to obtain more of the worlds goods.
There is nothing wrong with doing what needs to be done.
Jesus is our prime example in this.

Too often we harp on what we can't do on sabbath instead of what we can do.
I can feed a hungry person, I can walk with someone that is hurting, I can offer an arm to a needy individual.

But the best thing of all, when I show love and concern for others, I am actually showing love for my creator as well.
Jesus said that "in as much as ye did it unto the least of them my brothers, ye did it unto me".Mt.25:40

If we do not do it, it is the same as not doing it for Him.
Let's take a look at what we can do on Sabbath to make it a delight.

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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8