You are right, I don't understand what you are saying. It now appears that it is OK in your opinion to provide needs of others, but not their wants on Sabbath. Therefore, the man with the withered hand NEEDED to have it healed.
	quote: Wedntgp ~ April 22, 2001 03:53 PM

You seem bent on taking certain quotes of mine out of context, in attempt to paint me in a bad light. Why is that, Wedntgp?!

Instead of composing a response to your accusation that implies that I would seat myself at the throne of the universe, and taking upon myself what each person needs or does not need, allow me to point you to other comments I have already made, comments which you seem to have ignored:

I love to please Him; and He loves to make me happy. He shows me the best way to honor and worship Him, and to find rest in Him. I would rather trust God's wisdom, than to lean on my own understandings. (the following was in response to a comment someone had made stating that what we do on the Sabbath is up to our own personal prone-to-human-error judgement call) It may be up to the individual; but it would be wise for the individual to not rely upon their own fallible judgement. Instead, the individual should be praying without ceasing, always listening and watching for the leading of God. So instead of it being up to the individual, it should be up to God, for He knows best and will not lead the individual astray, nor into harm's way.

quote: DenBorg

Wedntgp, do you have a problem with God calling the shots? Who do you want to be in charge of things: you?, me?, someone else? or God?

Personally, I choose God.

I would suggest that one of my best friends with a "withered" hand does not need it healed, but he would sure like it healed. Could you help me understand your position and what made the healing of this person a need? I suggest that healing is never needed, but is always wanted. I would suggest that scooping snow on Sabbath is never needed, but always wanted. I would suggest that food on Sabbath is never needed, but always wanted. (At least in virtually all cases, waiting until sundown to eat would not be terminal.) Define with more precision your definition of want and your definition of need. We need Christ. So is telling of Christ the only activity appropriate on Sabbath?

quote: Wedntgp ~ April 22, 2001 03:53 PM

If you wish to be as cynical as you are trying to describe me to be, Wedntgp, then you could even say that the "needs" of someone in a life-and-death situation are not truly "needs", for if they accept Christ, then they will be raised up in the first resurrection and then live forever. Their death would even seal their eternal life, for after death, they cannot change their mind.

Would you like to try to paint me in that light, Wedntgp?!

I see the relief of human suffering as "needs". "Needs" are not always in the context of "life-and-death", or in facing imminent death.

Wedntgp, you ask if I believe that telling others about Christ is the only acceptable Sabbath activity. I will refrain from composing an answer to that question, for I have already answered that question in my previous comments; if you have not read them with the honest intention of understanding what was said, then you would not have such an intention with any additional comments or with any rephrasing I could provide for you.

So, Wedntgp, if you truly want to understand me or my comments, you may start with previous comments in this thread and give them an honest reading. And in addition to that, I lift up the example of Christ's life. Did He only preach the gospel on Sabbath? Or were there other things which He also did? things which you've recently characterized as "wants" and not needs.

As has been stated, if we do it for others, we do it for Christ. Sabbath is for spending time with Christ. If my activity is for Christ, I am spending time with Him.
	quote: Wedntgp ~ April 22, 2001 03:53 PM

Here again I see the stance of What you do is totally unimportant. Why you do it is the only thing that counts.

As I've stated before, I do not agree with this philosophy; I believe their is inherent danger in such a belief. Perhaps this should be discussed in a different thread: Is what you do unimportant and inconsequential if your motives or intentions are good/honorable/favorable? Is it possible to do the wrong thing for the right reasons? And would having the right reasons nullify the negative impact of doing the wrong thing?

Did not Saul (who later became Paul), believe he was doing what was right when he was murdering Christians? (I may be wrong, but my understanding is that Saul believed he was doing the right thing, and that he was doing it for God) Did God respond with, "Saul, you are murdering Me! But that is OK, because your motives are right!" Did God respond with, "Saul, you are murdering Christians, but you are doing it for Me and that makes it OK."

After all, it must be alright, for someone has said:

If my activity is for Christ, I am spending time with Him.

What of those today who murder prostitutes and bums, but do so from "honorable intentions"? Are their actions of no import?

Think about Cain. Cain offered to God the fruit of his own labor. Cain was giving of himself. Not only was Cain offering a sacrifice, but he was sacrificing something important to him, which he labored over and put in much sweat and hard work. Surely God would appreciate something which came from himself which he worked so hard for. Wouldn't it be more meaningful for Cain to give something which was important to him and came from him, than to offer up something which came from someone else: one of his brother's lambs?

Yet God did not say, "Cain, you disobeyed me, but your motives where in the right place, so that makes everything right."

Now, no one here as suggested that there is nothing wrong with murder as long as the motive for the murder is right. But I bring up these illustrations to bring up a point:

Both what we do, and why we do it, are important. You cannot sacrifice one for the other, and still have that intimate relationship with God. When one gives his life to Christ, He won't change only the person's motives, but will also change the person's behavior (i.e. actions) You cannot ask God to change your "motives", but to leave your "actions" untouched.

[This message has been edited by DenBorg (edited June 21, 2001).]

So, as I understand what you are saying, it would be OK for the dentist to fix teeth on Sabbath, which is his occupation, and what he does best, because that has to do with health, but it is not ok for the plumber to eliminate human discomfort because it does not have to do with healing, even though that is what he does best and the manner in which he feels comfortable serving his fellow man?
	quote: Wedntgp ~ April 21, 2001 03:19 AM

Somehow you seem to have missed one of my plumbing-related comments. For there were two plumbing scenarios which I described; one of which I would tend to on Sabbath and one which I would not tend to on Sabbath. Yet, Wedntgp, you seem to have willfully ignored one of them.

But perhaps you have a point, Wedntgp. For recently I have noticed the intense human discomfort in not having gold-plated faucet fixtures installed in one's bathroom, and the paralyzing agony of having grass in the yard that is a-half inch too long! Surely these are needs which absolutely must be done for your neighbor on Sabbath, and not the day before or the day after.

Sarcasm aside, I still believe as I mentioned before, and as someone else had also previously mentioned:

One does not have to wait for the Sabbath hours before he/she can perform acts of kindness in doing good deeds for others which may not be considered "dire needs."

The Sabbath is not the only time to exhibit our Christian love. Christianity is not about a day; it is about a life, a life with Christ and walking with Him and relying upon Him for guidance.

You are absolutely right about this, Wedntgp: "Talk is cheap, action is where its at." Which is precisely why I believe my activities are important, as are my motives. Both the what and the why are important. This is why I want to obey God in all things, including in how I observe the Sabbath; not to earn His favor or to earn salvation; but because He saved me and is changing my life.

What better witness is there, than to be seen following God and also seeing the wonderful blessings that result from walking with Him?

[This message has been edited by DenBorg (edited June 21, 2001).]

A good injection of Romans 14 would be good to put into our Sabbath discussion. Often we look at the following text as one we try to explain away along with the other "Sunday texts" but it contains a great principle for what we "can and can't do" on Sabbath.

"Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it." Romans 14:4-6a

The principle here is that stuff that is appropriate is only appropriate if it is so "in God's sight" (Coram Deo). What "Coram Deo" is for each person tends to vary with a whole bunch of presuppositions, maturity levels, conception of reality, etc.

The Godly forbearance that Paul seems to be advocating on this issue is something that was for the good of the Christian church. If it was not displayed, the early group of believers could have quickly gone "belly-up." So with us.

Remember that throughout the centuries the Jews didn't keep the Sabbath so much as the Sabbath kept the Jews.

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You have done many good things for me, Lord, just as you promised. I believe in your commands; now teach me good judgment and knowledge. Psalm 119:65-66 NLT

[This message has been edited by DenBorg (edited June 26, 2001).]

Does this, therefore, mean that we can do anything we want to do on the Sabbath, if our motive for doing it is right?
	quote: Daryl Fawcett

and in response, DrD commented:

Would it be too bold to suggest that if your motive is right, you would want to do "right" things? So therefore the answer to your question, Daryl, would be yes, if your motive is right, you can do anything you want on Sabbath. Wouldn't that make the Sabbath a pure delight, doing only what you want to? Praise the Lord!!!!
	quote: DrD

It is a good question, and I can appreciate DrD's reply.

I remember a very similiar question being asked by our teachers in my Sabbath school class years back. Something along the lines of: "If you are a Christian and have given your life to God, can you then do anything you want?" I do not recall the teachers ever giving a definitive answer, but instead let us discuss and debate amongst ourselves. It is a question that I've pondered over the years since.

Back then, my response was much like DrD's; and his point is valid. And I understand this point to be: "When you give your life to Jesus, and walk with Him, you are changed and will not want to do anything that will hurt Him, nor anything that would separate you from Him." The logical conclusion might then be that you could then do anything you please.

The problem I see with this today, however, is that it seems to assume that the change in us by Him is instantaneous; that our character and personal judgement instantly becomes perfect and infallible.

It seems to me that "I'm a Christian, and I walk with God. I love Him and don't want to hurt Him, nor do anything that would harm my relationship with Him. Therefore I can now do anything I desire." can all-to-easily promote self-reliance.

We need to remember that sanctification, God's purifying work in our lives, is an on-going process. It is not a one-time event, and *poof!* you're suddenly perfect. Rather, it is a process that happens during the course of our lives here on Earth. This corruption has not yet put on incorruption. This process of God working in our lives will be instantly made complete in a twinkling of an eye on that great and glorious day of His return.

But meanwhile, we need to remember that we need to depend upon Him daily, and seek His guidance. Even Jesus did not do His own will while He lived here on Earth; but instead He did the will of His Father in heaven.

Our own personal judgements are still prone to human error. Even though we are walking with God, we do not always know what is best for us. True, the longer we walk with Him, the better we know Him and the closer we walk with Him and the more we become like Him; but even still, our own personal judgments are not infallible.

The following verse comes to mind:

Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
	quote: Proverbs 3:5,6

The way I see it, leaning on Jesus would not make the Sabbath any less a delight; in fact, quite the opposite, it would make it a tremendous delight by spending it with Him. This would be true not only for the Sabbath, but for your whole life.

I would appreciate further comments on this.

-Dennis Borg

quote:

---

Originally posted by DenBorg:
If someone needed gold-plated fixtures installed to replace their plain-looking fixtures, I would do that some other time.

---

Let's get real here. This plumber is doing charity work for poor people. I know what it is like to be "financially challenged." There was a time long ago when we lived so far below the poverty level we would have felt incredibly wealthy to have been at the poverty level! Believe me, except for those relatively few persons whose only ambition in life is to take advantage of the generosity and gullibility of those around them, people who are poor enough to be willing to humble their pride and accept such acts of charity are not in the habit of wanting things like gold-plated fixtures! They would just be glad to be able to remove the pail catching the drips under the sink, replace the vice-grips with a real faucet handle, or have the sewage line vented where it should be, instead of directly into the bathroom (like in the house my daughter recently moved out of).

And as for when this particular plumber chooses to do this charity work that God has called him to do, you do not know his circumstances, or whether he even has the option of doing it on some other day of the week. Have you ever been self-employed in this type of business? We’ve been there too. (In fact, it was the very same time that we were living so far below the poverty level.) Self-employed tradesmen generally put in long hours, and despite what most people conclude from the hourly rates they charge, few of them are getting rich. Overhead in such businesses is very high. It may be that by the time this plumber is finished with the paying jobs that put a roof over his family’s heads and food on the table, he is too tired to go out and do still more manual labor each day. Or maybe he figures his family needs to see him on other days of the week than just Sabbath. Even if that is all day, it just can’t make up for no contact at all on the other six days – and self-employed people do often work six or seven days a week, particularly when emergencies come up.

If he doesn’t normally work on Sundays, he might actually reserve that one day of the week to do whatever work around his own house needs to be done, and for family events. (For those whose extended families are not SDA, or even any kind of Christian, like mine, Sabbath is not the time to spend in their company, trying to ignore the vulgar talk and frequent profanity, the smoking and drinking, or simply listening to the political arguments or just plain gossip.) And what father should never have time to go along on family outings to places that wouldn’t be suitable to visit on Sabbath? Only the most dedicated family men will make the effort to set aside time for such things, when the demands of a business are so great.

It is all well and good for you to speculate as to what you would do in such circumstances, even though you likely don’t have the faintest idea what your life would actually be like if you really did have such a career, but if you are going to take it upon yourself to sit in judgment on this plumber himself, I say to you, “Who are you that judgest another man’s servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth.” Romans 14:4. If God has called him to this work, God, and only God, has the right to tell him when he should do it.

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The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.

Inorder to believe God you must follow this process.

(A.) God sets the terms, you follow them.

The Bible & SOP are those terms.

(KJV) Deuteronomy 29:29 sets the tone of the terms.

The internal & external terms are set with their twin limits upon what is enjoined(supposed to do & why) and what is forbidden and why. Then you lay hold of God's merits and motives & strength to follow those internal terms of doing & not doing. You ask for and receive repentance where Scripture & SOP show repentance is due . By faith that acts upon what God has revealed you grasp the promises from Jesus and follow Him.

These basics you progress with, but never outgrow. They continue till you enter eternity. Then they bloom indeed where no tempter ever disturbs the belivers again.

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Edward F Sutton

Let's get real here. This plumber is doing charity work for poor people. ... ... ... It is all well and good for you to speculate as to what you would do in such circumstances, even though you likely don’t have the faintest idea what your life would actually be like if you really did have such a career, but if you are going to take it upon yourself to sit in judgment on this plumber himself, I say to you, “Who are you that judgest another man’s servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth.” Romans 14:4. If God has called him to this work, God, and only God, has the right to tell him when he should do it.

quote: Cathy Sears

I have not spoken one single, solitary word about "this plumber" which Wedntpg told us about at 1:38 PM ADT on Feb 4, 2001, neither in agreement nor in disagreement in regard to what "this plumber" did. Nor have I ever suggested that "this plumber" was actually installing gold-plated fixtures for the poor and needy in that town.

So, who is Cathy Sears to judge another's servant? (Romans 14:4)

While I have not commented whatsoever on "this plumber", I have used hypothetical illustrations to depict principles which I apply to my own life. One such illustration just so happened to contain the topic of plumbing, but in no wise referred to that particular plumber nor his/her actions. Read again my comments about the hypothetical plumbing situations:

If I were a plumber, ... ... If there were a plumbing emergency on Sabbath, I would attend to it. If someone needed gold-plated fixtures installed to replace their plain-looking fixtures, I would do that some other time.
	quote: DenBorg

You will find absolutely no reference to "this plumber" nor to the work which "this plumber" did in that town of poor and needy people, in any of my prior comments. In fact, this is the only post in which I have ever made any reference whatsoever to that plumber and what he/she did in that town; and even still, I have made absolutely no comments either in approval or in disapproval of his/her actions.

But for some unknown reason, Cathy, you seem to think that whenever I mention "plumbing", that I must be talking about "this plumber", as if "this plumber" is the only plumber in the whole history of the whole world.

And as for when this particular plumber chooses to do this charity work that God has called him to do, you do not know his circumstances, or whether he even has the option of doing it on some other day of the week. Have you ever been self-employed in this type of business?
	quote: Cathy Sears

But please take careful note, Cathy, that this principle which I stated was not aimed at "this plumber"; in fact, I never even mentioned "this plumber" in that particular comment (nor have I in any of my comments). My comment here merely says that nobody has to selfishly horde his/her own time during the first six days of the week, and then do charity only on the Sabbath. In other words, we should not be selfish throughout the week, and then be unselfish only on the Sabbath. While this is true for "this plumber", I did not specifically address "this plumber", but to followers of Christ in general as a whole.

Why do you presume to know, Cathy, that I disapprove of "this plumber's" actions? Do you know my heart? Can you read my mind? For you couldn't be any more wrong in your presumption!

Now, that being said, Cathy, you may agree or disagree with this principle which I mentioned concerning doing good only on Sabbath. But I find it very interresting that when I make mention of this principle, you accuse me of being judgemental. But you yourself, Cathy, said this very thing: "I am firmly convinced that my entire life everything I have and am belongs to God. Not just one tenth of my material increase and one seventh of my time, but 100% of my time, talents, abilities, and material resources." Yet you do not accuse yourself of being judgemental of "this plumber". (page 2 of this thread)

Then, in response to Won Bae who said the same thing about being selfish with time and putting off until the Sabbath to do missionary work, you replied, "You have made a very good point, Won Bae. Most people in our society these days are far too busy, not just making money, but with social engagements, amusements, and their own personal projects." And then three paragraphs later, you specifically address "this plumber", stating that the principles you just described would also apply to him/her: "And that goes for the plumber too." (page 2 of this thread)

So, when Won Bae said it, you agreed, and you re-echo the same in your own words. But when I say the very same thing, you accuse me of being judgemental. What is up with this double-standard, Cathy?!

Ed Sutton, on page 2 of this thread, commented that broken teeth and gashed lips should be taken care of now, even on Sabbath; but crowns and cleanings can wait. That broken hips go the the ER and perhaps surgery, and the face lift waits. The sad and lonely are talked to and comforted now, on Sabbath, after Sabbath, and before Sabbath.

Yet you do not accuse Ed of being judgemental of "this plumber"; perhaps because he made no mention of plumbing.

But also on page 2, Daryl Fawcett comments that if he were a plumber, he would tend to an immediate plumbing need in a situation which could not wait, such as a broken faucet or whatever which is allowing water to gush out into the room. But as far as menial routine noncritical plumbing which could wait for another day, Daryl would do that some other time other than Sabbath.

Yet you do not accuse Daryl of judging "this plumber", and he does make specific mention of "plumbing"

It is all well and good for you to speculate as to what you would do in such circumstances, even though you likely don’t have the faintest idea what your life would actually be like if you really did have such a career, ... ...
	quote: Cathy Sears

My walk with God today defines my response to the circumstances of tomorrow; and that response shall be built upon the principles and truths which He has revealed to me today, not upon the shifting sands found in the heat-of-the-moment passions of tomorrow's circumstances.

If you disagree with this principle, Cathy, then so be it.

The only things with which I had expressed disagreement with are the following points, which have been made either explicitly or implicitly:

1.	The implication that everything which people desire are needs; that there is no distinction between wants and needs.
	I believe that there is a difference between "needs" and "wants". Furthermore, there are needs which do not pertain to thwarting off imminent death or perilous circumstances. Someone may want gold-plated ... no, wait ... someone will incorrectly assume I am attacking "this plumber" .... Someone may want a brand new car, but not actually need it. Someone else may also want a new car, and actually need it; usually this person is not demanding a brand-new Lexus, Cadillac, or a Dodge Viper, but rather a nice car in good or excellent condition which can be depended upon. Some kid may want a ton of candy, but not need it. Someone may want a million dollars, but not need it. Someone may want and need healing, food, a tire fixed, some important errands run, or prescriptions filled, or a myriad of other possible needs. Wedntgp asserts that there is no difference between wants and needs. The only thing which is a "need", according to Wedntgp, is for people to hear the gospel of Christ; everything else is merely a "want"; except, perhaps, in cases where imminent danger or death is present. I disagree. Most often, needs are also wants; but not all wants are needs. Sometimes, people may not want something which they need, usually because they do not perceive the need. But none-the-less, needs and wants are not synonymous.
2.	What we do is of no consequence, as long as we have good intentions. I believe that both actions and motives are important and that they go hand-in-hand; that we should not rely upon our own fallible human judgement on what we should or should not do, but rather yield to the will of God, and depend upon His wisdom instead of upon human frailty. See Proverbs 3:5,6
3.	A person's activities may consist of anything under the sun, so long as it is "done for some other person."
	This is kind of a combination of #1 and #2. Suffice it to say that I also disagree with this for reasons given above.
4.	That what a person should or should not do should be left up to that person's own personal judgement."
	I believe that we should not presume to be self-reliant; that we should constantly be looking to God for wisdom, understanding, and guidance. That should we depend upon our own error-prone judgement, then we are begging for trouble. See Proverbs 3:5,6

Now, Cathy, you or anyone else may disagree with me on any or all of the above four points; but if you do disagree, then just simply disagree. Do not falsely accuse me of judging someone about whom I've never commented!

[This message has been edited by DenBorg (edited June 27, 2001).]

This thankless gut wrenching choice started at the last passover that became communion, crushed Him unto death in Gethsemene, kept raging inside Him all through the beatings of the kangaroo court, and burst His heart on Calvary & for our sake killed Him by His own choice, a lightening rod for all the lost guilty law breakers. We the putrid and He the perfect, we got to live and ride the cart, he was mangled & killed under it.

Jesus inspired the terms of the obedience of which the Bible & SOP calls obedience & the non obedience of which the same inspired works calls treason.

At heart we are all traitors, until we strive to believe with our hearts and obey what is said to obey & refrain according to what is commanded to refrain from. Until then we do not even give believable lip service to loyalty to Jesus Christ. We are not able to receive His merits while either in defiance or neglect of Scripture and SOP for they we are a minded to consume all blessings upon our lusts.

Consider these two things, actions & motives according to knowledge. These things show themselves over time, sometimes faster than others.

Jesus said those who love Him obey Him knowingly. Jesus also said those who hate Him disobey Him knowingly .

John 14:
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Proverbs 15:12 A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him: neither will he go unto the wise.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The person who does not choose to surrender to the Lordship of Jesus and obey what is written in Scripture & SOP (knowing what it means yet turning away) is surrendering to the lordship of Satan. It is called entering into temptation and committing sin. That done often becomes a habit & a trend.

The remedy is repent and confess your sins to Jesus and if reconverted be rebaptized - thus re covenanting with God again.

Now how would I know this is true, because I have been in that situation & done that. I have been a scorner, a spiritually darkened commandment breaker, even an open Sabbath breaker. In time God re-reached me & I was motivated & enabled to repent & was rebaptized.

How many intend to obey what they presently understand about Sabbath Keeping from the terms God has set?
Reset the tones of conversation to a more humble demeanor. This topic of conscious loyalty or conscious disloyalty cost Jesus His life to settle.

Things are getting too heated between brethren. The real issues are being lost in the volleys and exchanges. Jesus is worth more than heated repartee online, He is the Lord of this topic. Lord of the Sabbath.

When it is posted what the reasons for the existence of & nature of Sabbath, things will go much further in discovering what ought and ought not be on Sabbath.

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Edward F Sutton

You should not be so quick to jump to conclusions and take offense. My comments were not directed at you personally. If they were, I would have mentioned your name at the beginning of the post, as I have done in this one. While you may not have ever stated that the plumber whose case opened this thread was breaking the Sabbath by doing his charitable works on the Sabbath, others have, and my words about not judging were directed, once again, to them and to anyone else who may be inclined to agree.

I said nothing any different in that last post than I’ve said before, except in relation to the quoted words about the gold-plated fixtures, which have been repeated several times in this thread since you first mentioned them. I had no objection to your saying that in the first place, only to the fact that it has been repeated so often since. Any mention of such luxuries as gold-plated fixtures is totally irrelevant to the original intent of this discussion, which is supposed to be focused on meeting the real needs of those around us, whether it is acceptable to do so on the Sabbath, and whether it is appropriate to make judgments about someone else’s Sabbath missionary work.

Nobody has made even a hint of a suggestion that anything like installing gold-plated fixtures for someone could be even remotely considered appropriate for the Sabbath. But the phrase has been repeated so many times since you first injected it into the discussion, as to give the impression that the whole point of this discussion is luxury vs. necessity. And I am getting sick and tired of encountering the phrase. So all I really was trying to say in my last post was, “ENOUGH WITH THE GOLD-PLATED FIXTURES ALREADY! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC AT HAND!”

Now do you get it? Maybe I should have just said that in the first place. Please forgive me for not taking the time to thoroughly examine every word before posting, to be absolutely certain that no one could possibly misunderstand any of it. I really don’t have time for that, so I’ve decided that I will no longer be participating in this discussion, or in any others that have the potential for offending anyone who does not share my opinion and takes it personally when someone presents an opposing opinion. (And before you get offended, I did not say that you got offended because I disagreed with you!)

As for my previous statements that you feel are contradictory, if you would read everything I’ve said on this thread, instead of just looking for things to criticize in retaliation for my perceived offense against you, you would discover that I have also stated that no one could possibly make a correct judgment of the plumber’s case without a personal knowledge of his situation. It could be that he really does spend a lot of time during the week on his own selfish interests, or puts in long hours in order to accumulate material possessions, thus robbing God by using the sacred hours for work which he could easily do at some other time, were he to arrange his time according to God’s priorities. Or it could instead be true that he has no choice but to put in long hours of work in order to supply only the basic necessities for his family, thus leaving him with no other time to see to the needs of his fellow man except the time that God has blessed to be used for His work. But it could also be that neither is correct. There are many facets to any situation that must be known before anyone could rightfully pass judgment on the actions of others, which is why God is the only One who has any right to judge.

I don’t see any contradiction in my mentioning two opposing possibilities, especially in light of my above, already stated conviction. Since we have no right to judge another person’s convictions, the only point in even discussing this matter is that it is always useful (and important) for each of us to prayerfully examine our own hearts and lives in order to learn whether we personally might be falling into one sin or another, and might have need for a change in our own priorities and practise.

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The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.