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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33629
02/25/01 06:57 AM
02/25/01 06:57 AM
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Dear Father In Heaven & Lord Jesus & Holy Spirit, You said through the Bible that if any of us lack wisdom to ask You and You would generously impart it into us and not jump on us for not knowing or being confused. You didn't explain to Mary why she should pour the perfume on Jesus, but you moved her to do it. Please give us the respect and reverence for You and the hearing of Your voice to refrain when we ought and put in us the compassion to do when we ought, in full accordance with the letter and spirit of Your Sabbath. Please lead us to show our neighbours that we activly care ,as well as, respect and reverence You and please mentor us to know how You want us to do that. Too often we don't understand what we read we look only with our eyes and our heart's don't reach the words. Please teach us to be Sabbath keepers like Jesus does, and for His reasons. Thank You Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit for listening to my prayer, I don't guess too many prayers get posted in discussion threads outside of prayer forums. We go back and forth about how to keep Your law as if we knew. You have tried to help by revealing lots of instructions, please open our hearts cause they keep getting in the way of the minds You gave us. Please help us hear Your side of the story. Thank You for your help
Love Ed ------------------
Edward F Sutton
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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33630
04/20/01 08:04 PM
04/20/01 08:04 PM
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Jesus healed the man with the withered hand on Sabbath. The hand had been that way for years. It was not an emergency nor was the Sabbath the only time Jesus could have healed him. Are we limited to only working in emergency situations on Sabbath for the good of our fellow man, or is any activity that shows love and concern for others appropriate for Sabbath. If my neighbor is ill, and his crop needs harvested, is it OK to do on Sabbath? Could I mow the ill neighbors yard on Sabbath? Could I clean their house? Take them to go grocery shopping if their car is broken down? What is the impact of Jesus' example on these questions? |
| quote: Wedntgp |
I realize this thread has been inactive for a while, but I thought I'd make some comments anyway. The question had been raised that if Jesus could heal on the Sabbath, why can't (or shouldn't) we mow the neighbor's lawn on the Sabbath? After all, the man Jesus healed had been paralized/blind all his life; it wasn't an emergency situation. Yet mowing one's lawn lacks that certain 'humane' element that is present in the healing of someone. There is much more compassion and sympathy (i.e. humane) for mankind in the act of healing a person, than there is for mowing a lawn. Although Jesus healed people on the Sabbath (and I don't think He healed only on the Sabbath), somehow I do not think He would have built a house for someone on the Sabbath, even though He was a carpenter. Instead, I believe He would have done something like building the house during the week, and then spending the Sabbath with that someone, teaching them of God, in their new home. We do not have to wait until the Sabbath to minister to our neighbors. It can be hard to explain why I would do certain things on the Sabbath, and not others. But I believe the Lord leads me in this regard. Giving some examples might explain it best; certain situations simply seem different than others. If on the Sabbath I learn of a family had no food, I would prepare a meal for them and visit with them that Sabbath; and then buy them some groceries the next day and help however I may afterwards. Their personal and immediate needs would be more directly attended to this way; they could simply eat without having to worry about putting groceries away, and then also have to cook the meal for themselves. If an ill neighbor could not mow his lawn, I would mow it either before the Sabbath, or afterwards. But on Sabbath, I would do things like visit with the neighbor, and take care of their kids so they can rest better; yet if they required medicine and they had run out, I would get them some from the drugstore. (This is not to say I wouldn't watch their kids or get their medicine during the week.) If I were a plumber, I would help with the free plumbing throughout the week, and on Sabbath talk to those interested about my special Friend. (not saying that the Sabbath would be the only time to talk about Him) If there were a plumbing emergency on Sabbath, I would attend to it. If someone needed gold-plated fixtures installed to replace their plain-looking fixtures, I would do that some other time. As far as the "emergency test" goes, it is true that many of Christ's healings were not "emergencies". That is, the person would have lived until the next day. A hungry family would also be a "nonemergency" situation; for they would live until the next day, and you can feed them then. Yet the healing of the blind and paralized, and the feeding of the hungry, though they may not be considered 'emergencies', still differ from other 'nonemergency situations' such as mowing a yard, or installing gold-plated plumbing fixtures. The first relieves human suffering (the humane element); the second does not. The story of the lady who Jesus was going to come visit was also mentioned. The things which the needy in the story asked for were very different than things like "mowing my lawn", "installing new plumbing fixtures", etc. Instead, they needed things like food, or clothing; things which are essential to life. Somehow, things such as feeding the poor, getting medicine for someone in need, fixing a flat tire of a distressed traveller, etc. just have a different nature about them than does mowing someone's lawn, or installing gold-plated plumbing fixtures, etc. Does any of this make sense? -Dennis Borg
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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33631
04/20/01 11:02 PM
04/20/01 11:02 PM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 44
USA
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With great pleassure and relish, I do absolutely nothing on the Sabbath. As far as helping our fellow man (in non-emergency situations that can wait), I think that is a judgement call on the part of the individual. There are too many variables to try and have a one-rule-fits-all.
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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33632
04/21/01 12:11 AM
04/21/01 12:11 AM
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With great pleassure and relish, I do absolutely nothing on the Sabbath. |
| quote: me again |
With all due respect, that is really very sad; not at all how God intends for us to honor and worship Him.
As far as helping our fellow man (in non-emergency situations that can wait), I think that is a judgement call on the part of the individual. There are too many variables to try and have a one-rule-fits-all. |
| quote: me again |
It may be up to the individual; but it would be wise for the individual to not rely upon their own fallible judgement. Instead, the individual should be praying without ceasing, always listening and watching for the leading of God.So instead of it being up to the individual, it should be up to God, for He knows best and will not lead the individual astray, nor into harm's way. As far as the apparent sentiment of "too many rules and variables to worry about, so just don't worry about it, and just do whatever feels good to you" (leastwise, that is the impression I got), I would suggest turning your eyes upon Jesus. Focus on Him, instead of upon the "rules and variables." Then it may not feel burdensome to you to do as God asks. I do not see God's laws and guidelines for happy living in harmony with the universe as laborous and burdensome. He has written His law upon my heart and my mind. As my relationship with Him grows as I spend more and more time with Him, He reveals things in my life which need changing. I trust Him for the power, desire, and faith to be changed; and I permit His work of sanctification in my life. I love to please Him; and He loves to make me happy. He shows me the best way to honor and worship Him, and to find rest in Him. -Dennis Borg
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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33633
04/21/01 01:25 AM
04/21/01 01:25 AM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 44
USA
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With great pleassure and relish, I do absolutely nothing on the Sabbath. |
| [b]quote: me again |
I have such peace, as I never had when I plowed the earth 7 days a week.
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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33634
04/21/01 01:28 AM
04/21/01 01:28 AM
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Charter Member
Veteran Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 881
Michigan, USA
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I believe you have the right idea DenBorg. ------------------
The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.
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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33635
04/21/01 06:19 AM
04/21/01 06:19 AM
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OP
Full Member
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 132
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So, as I understand what you are saying, it would be OK for the dentist to fix teeth on Sabbath, which is his occupation, and what he does best, because that has to do with health, but it is not ok for the plumber to eliminate human discomfort because it does not have to do with healing, even though that is what he does best and the manner in which he feels comfortable serving his fellow man? You haven't convinced me yet. The over riding principle of all activities is love, and not whether the activity deals with health or better living, in my opinion. But then, if you engage in an activity you believe to be sin, it is sin. Because you are doing something that you believe is separating you from God. Separation from God is what sin is. I will mow lawns, scoop walks, and engage in activities that show my neighbor what Christian love is all about. Not all neighbors want a personal visit, but a helpful hand in times of need shows that we care for them enough to engage in activities not generally pleasant for them. Talk is cheap, action is where its at.
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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33636
04/21/01 01:45 PM
04/21/01 01:45 PM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 44
USA
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With great pleassure and relish, I do absolutely nothing on the Sabbath. |
| [b]quote: me again |
quote:
Replied by DenBorg:
That is really very sad.
I have found such joy, peace and satisfaction in doing this on His day. If my fellow man needs help on the Lord's day, I will be the first to help. I also read the Bible, enjoy quiet time and occasionally socialize with others. For six days a week, I run non-stop. I work 40+ hours a week AND I'm a full time college student. Sometimes I suffer from exhaustion and when the Friday evening sunset arrives, I feel like collapsing. In reference to my above quote, DenBorg, in your opinion, should I repent?  Scripture please. quote:
Replied by DenBorg:
That is not at all how God intends for us to honor and worship Him.
Again, should I repent? Scripture please.
[This message has been edited by me again (edited April 21, 2001).]
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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33637
04/21/01 01:57 PM
04/21/01 01:57 PM
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Full Member
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 221
USA
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Picture the experience Christ paints for us in the 25th Chapter of Matthew. Christ is coming in His glory. He is separating people one from another. He is saying to those on His right hand, "Come into my kingdom, for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, and you took me in: I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me. Those on His right hand say "when did we do those things." And He will answer, "Insomuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothern, you did it to Me, as long as you did not do it on Sabbath. And He will turn to those on His left hand and they will say "we did those things Lord." "I know," is His response, "but you did them on Sabbath!" A little ridiculous, huh? Sabbath is the day we spend with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And the verses that I have twisted to meet the philosophy I have read in this chat, say that when we help others we are spending time with Christ. What better way to spend Sabbath than helping others, whether or not it is an activity we would do for ourselves on Sabbath. If we are doing it for "My brothern" we are spending time with Jesus. It appears that what is important is not what we are doing, but who are we doing it for, and if we are doing it for His brothern, we are spending time with Him, what a blessing that will bring to the Sabbath. ------------------
And the second is like it . . .
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Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential
#33638
04/22/01 02:46 AM
04/22/01 02:46 AM
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So, as I understand what you are saying, it would be OK for the dentist to fix teeth on Sabbath, which is his occupation, and what he does best, because that has to do with health, but it is not ok for the plumber to eliminate human discomfort because it does not have to do with healing, even though that is what he does best and the manner in which he feels comfortable serving his fellow man? |
| quote: Wedntgp |
Nope, you haven't understood what I am saying.
You haven't convinced me yet. |
| quote: Wedntgp |
Respectfully, I am not here to convince you of anything; that is not my job.  I am curious, though; is that why you posted your question? For us to convince you of something?Your comments haven't swayed me to believe that any and all activities under the sun are all equally effective means (or even good means) of worship and witnessing. I would rather trust God's wisdom, than to lean on my own understandings. -Dennis Borg
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