Music is used consistently in our Sabbath School Program, Divine Worship Service, Vespers, and often at our mid-week Prayer Meetings.

What then is the role or purpose of music in our churches?

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)

I think that music is used (for me anyway) to uplift the soul, to remind us why we and who we are worshiping, to take our minds away from the cares of the world, as a means of prayer. I also think that as God calls us (all throughout the Psalms) to praise and worship in song and with musical instruments and in dance that this is a very important part of our services. Many times the songs can tell a message of Christ's love that even a sermon cannot. Music has to it a special quality that catches the whole soul - the mind, the body and the heart - that other venues cannot emulate.

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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*

For me, when I was still driving truck, it was a means of getting close to my best friend.

When you spend long periods of time alone, it can get to you.

On more than one accasion, when it was getting real lonely, a chorus or even the whole song would come into my mind, and as I 'sang' it, it drew my mind away from me and my lonliness, and put it on the one that was always so lonely here.
A kindred spirit if you will, it was like He was sitting with me in the cab, telling me He understood because He had been lonely as He walked here 2000 years ago.

Music can inspire, it can uplift and it can chase away the lonelys.

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Is what you're living for worth Christ dying for?

Gerry B.

What Is Appropriate Music?

Maintaining the purity of it’s music has been the concern of the Christian Church since it’s earliest days. Vigilance in this area is probably one of the most difficult and sensitive areas of church members who would be concerned about the kind of music that would be appropriate. Not everyone is concerned about it; but still, there are a few simple guidelines to play your tunes to.

The chapter entitled: “Poetry And Song,” in the book called “Education,” concludes with several paragraphs, under the subheading: “The Power Of Song.” The last few sentences concisely summarize the value of singing in both the home and the church:

“As part of the religious service; singing is as much an act of worship as is prayer. Indeed! Many a song is prayer! If a child is taught to realize this, [they] will think more of the meaning of the words[they] sing; and will be more susceptible to their power.”

Personally, I have a wide variety of taste for music as part of my worship. That taste changes from time to time as needs and situations arise. Last year, I frequently played a “racy tune,” by TD Jake called “Woman: Thou Art Loosed!” The song was basically a point of prayer by me, for my wife, at the time.

I’m sure I’d be railroaded out of some of our churches if I ever dared to play this tune there, but I don’t even play it myself anymore. It’s not really my preference of music style. But hey! The words have stayed with me; and so has my wife!

The following texts appeal to a quest for Biblical definition of the intended power of music:

“In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation will God appoint for walls and bulwarks.
2 Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:”

Isa.26:1-4

“12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.”

Jer.31:12

I probably have not answered all questions about what is proper music; but this will be a good starting point...More later when I have time!

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"The joy of the Lord will be your strength." (Neh.8:10).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

Sometimes, I think we are too quick to criticize music that we don't particularly like. When I read Psalms, it mentions almost every kind of instrument, from cymbals (drum sets?), harp (apparently refers to the guitar!), trumpets, etc. The list could go on forever!! Many cultures have a variety of instruments that have been a part of their history for as far back as it goes. Who are we to tell them that they are wrong in how they worship God in music.

I have to ask a question here. Who created music? I believe it was God. Who likes to take everything God creates to try and counterfeit and corrupt it? Satan. Both use music to their benefit. God uses it both to our benefit and to our glory. We must be diligent in not allowing Satan to corrupt our music, but we also must not allow Satan to corrupt our worship through nitpicking and senseless issues about musical taste differences. God can reach people through any kind of music. When we limit the varieties of music in our churches, are we trying to limit God's ability to use those uses?

Food for thought anyway.
_______________________________

Prayer Changes Things!
Sarah Moss

[This message has been edited by Mrs. Moss (edited August 03, 2000).]

Sometimes I use church music to my benefit.

It gives me the time to put last-minute sermon thoughts together--unless I have to play the piano for the singers.

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"He Restoreth My Soul"

Pastor Andrew

"Sing me another Hymn about Him!

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"The joy of the Lord will be your strength." (Neh.8:10).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited August 07, 2000).]

I read and agree with the posts about the purpose of music in our church services.

In order for the purpose of music in our church services to be fulfilled or realized, the music appropriate to meeting the purpose becomes very important.

I don't have any problem with the various musical instruments, however, it's the way they are used that would concern me.

The piano and the organ, the most common musical instruments used in our churches, can also be and are also used in the wrong way.

It isn't the instrument that's the problem. It's the way it is used. It's the beat and rhythm and the loudness of the musical instruments that can be the problem.

I have heard so called Christian music in which you couldn't hear the words over the musical instruments. That wouldn't be appropriate outside our churches let alone inside out churches.

Doesn't the Bible and the SOP have something to say about this?

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited August 07, 2000).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
It isn't the instrument that's the problem. It's the way it is used. It's the beat and rhythm and the loudness of the musical instruments that can be the problem.

---

I have a question here. . . Does the Psalmist tell us to worship quietly, or to praise quietly? I don't think that when Jesus comes again we will be quietly rejoicing over our salvation - we will be shouting it from the mountain tops, letting the Hosannas Ring from the clouds. It will not be a quiet occurrence. Not to say that quiet music does not have its place either, but when I feel like praising, I don't feel like doing it quietly - and it's more difficult (comfort-wise) to praise loudly if the music is soft and mellow.

Sometimes there is a fine line between Heavenly music and earthly music, because, yes, Satan can take a wonderful song and turn it into his tool with for some with the music. However, I also believe that God can use that same music to bring others to Him (for the record I am not suggesting that we bring this type of music into the sanctuary, I am just suggesting that we do not censor it outside the sanctuary).

For instance, my brother listened to Guns & Roses, etc. Now, I would much rather have had him listen to the worst of Petra (sorry, don't know any other group names) than Guns and Roses. Same time of music - different words, and I believe that words do make a difference.

When my husband and I listen to a song together, it is inevitable that he will come out knowing the exact tune with only a hint of the words, and I will come out knowing the words with only a hint of what the tune was. Differences.

I guess my point (if I seem to have one today) is that we cannot judge what another finds to be worship. God meets us where we are at, and if one finds heavy rock and roll uplifting (yikes!) then we cannot fault them. God will work on their heart, but sometimes it just takes a while for their heart to become changed.

(for the record, I do not listen to heavy rock music, but find all others enjoyable)

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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*

[This message has been edited by Mrs. Moss (edited August 11, 2000).]

It is not safe for the Lord's workers to take part in worldly entertainments. Association with worldliness in musical lines is looked upon as harmless by some Sabbathkeepers. But such ones are on dangerous ground. Thus Satan seeks to lead men and women astray, and thus he has gained control of souls. So smooth, so plausible is the working of the enemy that his wiles are not suspected, and many church members become lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God.--Manuscript 82, 1900. {3SM 332.2}

Brother U has a good knowledge of music, but his education in music was of a character to suit the stage rather than the solemn worship of God. Singing is just as much the worship of God in a religious meeting as speaking, and any oddity or peculiarity cultivated attracts the attention of the people and destroys the serious, solemn impression which should be the result of sacred music. Anything strange and eccentric in singing detracts from the seriousness and sacredness of religious service. {3SM 333.1

Dignified, Solemn, Impressive Music.--Bodily exercise profiteth little. Everything that is connected in any way with religious worship should be dignified, solemn, and impressive. God is not pleased when ministers professing to be Christ's representatives so misrepresent Christ as to throw the body into acting attitudes, making undignified and coarse gestures, unrefined, coarse gesticulations. All this amuses, and will excite the curiosity of those who wish to see strange, odd, and exciting things, but these things will not elevate the minds and hearts of those who witness them. {3SM 333.2}
The very same may be said of singing. You assume undignified attitudes. You put in all the power and volume of the voice you can. You drown the finer strains and notes of voices more musical than your own. This bodily exercise and the harsh, loud voice makes no melody to those who hear on earth and those who listen in heaven. This singing is defective and not acceptable to God as perfect, softened, sweet strains of music. There are no such exhibitions among the angels as I have sometimes seen in our meetings. Such harsh notes and gesticulations are not exhibited among the angel choir. Their singing does not grate upon the ear. It is soft and melodious and comes without this great effort I have witnessed. It is not forced and strained, requiring physical exercise. {3SM 333.3}
The Feelings Not Touched, the Heart Not Subdued.--Brother U is not aware how many are amused and disgusted. Some cannot repress thoughts not very
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sacred and feelings of levity to see the unrefined motions made in the singing. Brother U exhibits himself. His singing does not have an influence to subdue the heart and touch the feelings. Many have attended the meetings and listened to the words of truth spoken from the pulpit, which have convicted and solemnized their minds; but many times the way the singing has been conducted has not deepened the impression made. The demonstrations and bodily contortions, the unpleasant appearance of the strained, forced effort has appeared so out of place for the house of God, so comical, that the serious impressions made upon the minds have been removed. Those who believe the truth are not as highly thought of as before the singing. {3SM 333.4}
It Must Be "All in His Way."--Brother U's case has been a difficult one to manage. He has been like a child undisciplined and uneducated. When his course has been questioned, instead of taking reproof as a blessing, he has let his feelings get the better of his judgment and he has become discouraged and would do nothing. If he could not do in everything as he wanted to do, all in his way, he would not help at all. He has not taken hold of the work earnestly to reform his manners but has given up to mulish feelings that separate the angels from him and bring evil angels around him. The truth of God received in the heart commences its refining, sanctifying influence upon the life. {3SM 334.1}

The Power of Music.--Music is of heavenly origin. There is great power in music. It was music from the angelic throng that thrilled the hearts of the
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shepherds on Bethlehem's plains and swept round the world. It is in music that our praises rise to Him who is the embodiment of purity and harmony. It is with music and songs of victory that the redeemed shall finally enter upon the immortal reward. {3SM 334.4}
There is something peculiarly sacred in the human voice. Its harmony and its subdued and heaven-inspired pathos exceeds every musical instrument. Vocal music is one of God's gifts to men, an instrument that cannot be surpassed or equaled when God's love abounds in the soul. Singing with the spirit and the understanding also is a great addition to devotional services in the house of God. {3SM 335.1}
How this gift has been debased! When sanctified and refined it would accomplish great good in breaking down the barriers of prejudice and hardhearted unbelief, and would be the means of converting souls. It is not enough to understand the rudiments of singing, but with the understanding, with the knowledge, must be such a connection with heaven that angels can sing through us. {3SM 335.2}

This is a sample of what I found in the EGW estate.
Funny, this is the first time I saw these quotes.
Oh, well, have to search a little better, I guess.

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What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.
Gerry B.

Some of you may be familiar with some of the heavy duty rock and roll bands...I wish I wasn't; but it is a part of my past...

There is an example I'd like to point out about so called "Christian Rock."

The group called "Black Sabbath" used to be SDA's. They have a HeavyMetal Satan worship repertoir that is nothing short of shocking. Just before singing their song "Selling My Soul," the singer yells out: "Don't forget! The real sabbath is coming around to you!!!"

What bothers me, is that I am hearing similar tunes, with Christian lyrics, and I ask all those who say; "Why should the devil have all the good music?" Do you really believe that? Is the bumper sticker true that I saw the other week: "Jesus Rocks!"

Those who say "Rock & Roll will never die," are not right! It will, and it has! I had a brother who was fast heading down the lane to rock and roll stardom. He was doing the opening show for the big names, like Bon Jovi etc. I started to pray for him, and wouldn't you know it...A couple of years later, all he wants to do is play classical music!

I was at a so called christian concert a while ago with a new christian. Suddenly, a band came on stage that was just like Black Sabbath - except they sang christian lyrics...I was really concerned that the person I was with would be very adversely affected so I started to pray...I just said: "O Lord! Please don't let this sway her...."

And wouldn't you know it. The lead singer, right in the middle of a real metal song, went blank! She yelled out in horror: "Oh no! I forgot the words!"

Could these examples be indications of what we need to do more of if we encounter "christian rock in the church?"

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"The joy of the Lord will be your strength." (Neh.8:10).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

Music has the power to uplift or to destroy.

I am amazed by the number of people that say ' It's ok to listen to this because it has Christian lyrics'.

I would like to ask a question, again, that no one, as yet, has answered.

When you put one rotten apple in a bushel of good ones, leave it there over a period of time, what happens?

Usuing the same logic, if you put into your mind the mind numbing rock beat over a period of time, what happens?

No matter how you dress it up, a pig is still a pig; is it not?

The same goes for 'christian rock', a pig in a different dress.

This statement I use as my signature came on a little sign I put in the back window of my vehicle:
WHAT IS POPULAR IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT,
WHAT IS RIGHT IS NOT ALWAYS POPULAR!

Because something is popular doesn't mean that it is right, Christianity isn't a democracy where the majority rules, remember, He is coming back for the REMNANT, not the whole bolt.

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What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.
Gerry B.

[This message has been edited by Gerry Buck (edited August 22, 2000).]

"Those things which have been in the past, will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare BY THE WAY IN WHICH IT IS CONDUCTED.

God calls upon His people, who have the light before them, in the Word and in the testimonies, to read, and consider, and to take heed.

Clear and definite instruction has been given IN ORDER THAT ALL MAY UNDERSTAND.

But the itching desire to originate something new, results in strange doctrines, and largely destroys the influence of those who would be a power for good." (2SM 37-38).

This counsel alerts concerned Christians to the dangers that can occurr in the thoughtless, or unwise use of even "religious music."

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"We are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets; Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Cornerstone!" (Eph.2:20).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

I guess if she forgot the words they didn't mean much to her.
I have always been perplexed by music. It is such a nebulous entity. I mean what is it really?
I have always said it is the words that count and qualified it by saying the words should be the focus and not to complement the music as is often the case in "Rock" music.
I do know that God is not praised by the listless and lifeless funeral like way in which many hymns are sung week after week. SOP talks about how we should have new songs introduced regularly to give life and new meaning to our services. And yet it seems as though a song has to be around for at least a century before it can qualify as spiritual or acceptable.
Strange.

SOP also tells us that it should not be 'of the world'.
She said that we do not honor God when we sing 'religious' songs with a melody from 'show tunes'.

Scripture also tells us that we are not to mix the things of God with the things of the devil.

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What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.
Gerry B.

That's all well and good in theory, but who defines what is of this world and what isn't? What does that even mean? To the avg person it just sounds like a bunch of pious drivel. I mean we have hymns in our hymnal that share the tune with songs that don't have Christian lyrics. Does that mean they are worldly and should be abandoned? Scripture is full of a variety of instruments that are used to praise God so the instrumentation can't be the problem. Does anybody have any clear (as opposed to vague generalities) counsel on this topic, as to what music is uplifting and what music isn't?

Do you want chapter and verse?
I can't give you that.
I can only share my 50 plus years of living, the things I've seen and taken part in.
I grew up in the rock and roll early years.
I attended several concerts, and saw what passed as entertainment, and how the groups and fans 'behaved'.

I was over 30 before being found of God, and had a lot of baggage that needed to be shorn away.
I have attended some 'christian rock' concerts, and you know what? I saw absolutely NO difference from what I had seen in a secular one.
And I do mean no difference.
When I had a sattelite, we were able to get in a christian station, they played 'christian rock' videos.

I thought MTV was stupid, these people put them all to shame with all the girations and wild jerky moves.
Dancing in the aisles to music that had no place in a christians library.
They even have a top ten, just like the Billboard Review.

I watch as our church leaders say there is nothing wrong with this type of nonsense, them listen as they lament the fact that so many of our young people don't seem to reverence things as we do.
I also watched as my oldest moved away from the church, lured first by christian rock, them turned on to secular music.
I had an argument with an individual about this in the past, but my daughter set him straight when she told him that it was the draw of the music that did it.

We have to be very careful about what our children listen to, and we need to be careful of what we put into our heads as well.

You can't get out what you don't put in.
If you put garbage into a receptacle, that is all you can get out of it.

I agree with you in principle. There is some music that I find offensive, but if chapter and verse can't be given, what right do I have to define offensive and inoffensive? I think there is some music that is definitely bad and some that is good, but what about the majority of music that lies inbetween? There was a time when the organ was considered satanic and not to let inside a church. Now some think anything but an organ is heresy. Some hate guitars yet a harp is very similar and so is the "Holy Violin". There's A LOT of grey area here that no one seems to be able to shed any light on.

What I am posting here I had posted on another forum months ago. I have made only a few modifications. Ellen White wrote 100 years ago about the kind of music that is referred to as Christian rock, gospel, CCM, etc. You see, this type of music is not new. Adventists were using it in campmeeting in Indiana in 1900.

From Elder Haskell's letter to EGW (quoted in the EGW biography, "The Early Elmshaven Years"

quote:

---

To describe it, I hardly know what to say. It is beyond all description. I have never seen any company held with a firmer grasp by a certain number of the leading ministers, than they are held in Indiana. Brother R. S. Donnell is president, and they have an experience in getting the people ready for translation. They call it the "cleansing message." Others call it the "holy flesh"; and when I say the "cleansing message" and the "holy flesh," no doubt these terms will bring to your mind experiences that illustrate what we saw....

There is a great power that goes with the movement that is on foot there. It would almost bring anybody within its scope, if they are at all conscientious, and sit and listen with the least degree of favor, because of the music that is brought to play in the ceremony. They have an organ, one bass viol, three fiddles, two flutes, three tambourines, three horns, and a big bass drum, and perhaps other instruments which I have not mentioned. They are as much trained in their musical line as any Salvation Army choir that you ever heard. In fact, their revival effort is simply a complete copy of the Salvation Army method, and when they get on a high key, you cannot hear a word from the congregation in their singing, nor hear anything, unless it be shrieks of those who are half insane. I do not think I overdraw it at all.—S. N. Haskell to EGW, Sept. 25, 1900.

---

EGW replied to Elder Haskell (found in Manuscript Releases vol. 21, pages 126-133)

quote:

---

It is impossible to estimate too largely the work that the Lord will accomplish through His proposed vessels in carrying out His mind and purpose. The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working.

When the camp meeting is ended, the good which ought to have been done and which might have been done by the presentation of sacred truth, is not accomplished. Those participating in the supposed revival receive impressions which lead them adrift. They cannot tell what they formerly knew regarding Bible principles.

No encouragement should be given to this kind of worship. The same kind of influence came in after the passing of the time in 1844. The same kind of representations were made. Men became excited, and were worked by the power thought to be the power of God. They turned their bodies over and over, like a carriage wheel, claiming that they could not do this except by supernatural power. There was a belief that the dead were raised and had ascended to heaven....

I will not go into all the painful history; it is too much. But last January the Lord showed me that erroneous theories and methods would be brought into our camp meetings, and that the history of the past would be repeated. I felt greatly distressed. I was instructed to say that at these demonstrations demons in the form of men are present, working with all the ingenuity that Satan can employ to make the truth disgusting to sensible people; that the enemy was trying to arrange matters so that the camp meetings, which have been the means of bringing the truth of the third angel's message before multitudes, should lose their force and influence.

The third angel's message is to be given in straight lines. It is to be kept free from every thread of the cheap, miserable inventions of men's theories, prepared by the father of lies, and disguised as was the brilliant serpent used by Satan as a medium of deceiving our first parents. Thus Satan tries to put his stamp upon the work God would have stand forth in purity.

The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with such a confusion of noise and multitude of sounds as passed before me last January. Satan works amid the din and confusion of such music, which, properly conducted, would be a praise and glory to God. He makes its effect like the poison sting of the serpent.

Those things which have been in the past will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted. God calls upon His people, who have the light before them in the Word and in the Testimonies, to read and consider, and to take heed. Clear and definite instruction has been given in order that all may understand. But the itching desire to originate something new results in strange doctrines, and largely destroys the influence of those who would be a power for good if they held firm the beginning of their confidence in the truth the Lord had given them.

---

Here we have a very clear description of what kind of music is not acceptable to God and its effects on the human listener.

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________________________
Even so come, Lord Jesus
Linda

One of the most significant aspects of music is its effects on the body which have documented in research by people who are not Christians. I found the following information on the internet. The book being cited is from:

quote:

---

"David Tame (another unbeliever), in his 1984 book, The Secret Power of Music.

(e) " ‘To the question, 'Does music affect man's physical body?' modern research applies in the clear affirmative. There is scarcely a single function of the body which cannot be affected by musical tones [score] ... Investigation has shown that music affects digestion, internal secretions, circulation, nutrition and respiration. Even neural networks of the brain have been found to be sensitive to harmonic principles" (p. 136).

(f) " ‘Researchers have discovered that consonant and dissonant chords, different intervals, and other features of music [score] all exert a profound effect upon man's pulse and respiration-upon their rate and upon whether their rhythm is constant, or interrupted and jumpy. Blood pressure is lowered by sustained chords and raised by crisp, repeated ones. [It has also been found that the tension of the larynx is affected by melodies, that sound stimuli can have a negative effect upon the skeletal muscles, that rock rhythms cause the heart beat to lose its perfect rhythm, and that certain rhythms can even cause a rare malady known as "musicogenic epilepsy" (76 documented cases as of 1984), with which some of its victims have been tormented to the point of committing suicide or murder.] ... We can see, then, that music affects the body in two distinct ways: directly, as the effect of sound upon the cells and organs, and indirectly, by affecting the emotions, which then in turn influence numerous bodily processes' " (p. 137).
______________________________

"Even Allan Bloom (an unbeliever), in his book The Closing of the American Mind, makes some interesting observations concerning the moral effects of music on people (pp. 68-81):...

(c) " ‘Were we to scour the globe in search of the most aggressively malevolent and unmistakably evil music is existence, it is more than likely that nothing would be found anywhere to surpass voodoo in these attributes ... as the rhythmic accompaniment to satanic rituals and orgies, voodoo is the quintessence of tonal evil. ... Its multiple rhythms [score], rather than uniting into an integrated whole, are performed in a certain kind of conflict with one another. ... What is certain is that to hear this music is to become instantly encompassed by the sound of its raw, livid power. ... Musicologists and historians are in no doubt that the drum rhythms of Africa were carried to America and were transmitted and translated into the style of music which became known as jazz. Since jazz and the blues were the parents of rock and roll, this also means that there exists a direct line of descent from the voodoo ceremonies of Africa, through jazz, to rock and roll and all the other forms of rock music today' " (pp. 189-190).

---

Michael Jackson, when questioned about the lewd, sexual movements that he makes when he is performing on stage (he was on the Oprah Winfrey show at the time, 1993) said that he doesn't do it consciously, it is the rhythm of the music that makes him do it.

A book I have, "Music, the Brain, and Ecstasy" by Robert Jourdain, describes polyrhythms as impossible for the brain to generate as it cannot generate two rhythms at the same time. He gives an example by telling us to try a create a polyrhythm. With one hand begin tapping out one-two, one-two. With the other hand, tap three times for every two taps of the other hand beginning both beats at the same time. He says not to be surprised if you can't do it. It is almost impossible to manage. He goes on to say that polyrhythms were used in some classical music (I wonder how many people have ever thought about problems with classical music, but I won't go there) then makes this statement, "There's a good deal of polyrhythm in jazz, but not much elsewhere in the West. It's found extensively in the traditional music of the Middle East, Asia, and above all, Africa." A more subtle form of polyrhythm is syncopation "in which beats are accentuated apart from the regular metrical pattern."

If the brain cannot generate two rhythms at once, what does it do when it hears two rhythms at once? Consider what Sister White said about the kind of music that was being played in Indiana:

"The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions....
"A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing." (2 SM)

The human body is a finely tuned electrical machine. It must keep a certain rhythm or the body will be thrown out of balance. The heart beats with a certain rhythm. If it loses that rhythm, it begins to fibrillate, sort of like a flutter that doesn't pump any blood. If it cannot be shocked into beating normally again, the person dies. Breathing is rhythmic; even walking has a rhythm to it. I don't go to gyms to work out because of the music. If you ask management why they play rock (and play it loud), they will tell you it is because it makes people move. It stimulates them. Certain kinds of rhythms will set the body in motion, especially those found in rock, jazz, and R&B. When was the last time a hymn made someone want to get up a boogie or just tap their feet? Dairy farmers won't play rock of any kind in the barns. The cows can't give their milk. A student decided to see what effect rock music had on animals. He had to stop the experiment at 24 hours because the mice were all dead. Plants don't usually grow to rock music. If it's harmful to plants and animals, how can it be any different for humans?

I want so much just to make my children understand. I want other youth and those not so young who are caught up in any kind of rock music to understand that God doesn't work through methods that "confuse the senses of rational beings." He speaks in the still small voice. God wasn't in the whirlwind or the earthquake. He was the still small voice, and when Elijah heard it, he bowed before the Lord. God still speaks to us through our frontal lobe, through the part of the brain that reasons and decides right from wrong. He doesn't bypass the frontal lobe and go straight for the thalamus, the pleasure center of the brain. It is Satan who works through our senses, but God goes to the heart, the mind. "Come now, let us reason together, saith the Lord."

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Even so come, Lord Jesus
Linda

I once attened a CCM concert with some church friends. They, otherwise "normal" appearing people, started dancing in the aisles. I got that sickening feeling akin to sharing a seat in the bus with someone who is drunk. It's just not cool to be around anyone who is in an altered state!

For a week after that concert I would jump at the sound of a pencil tapping on a desk--it made me so skittish and nervous. It's been over 15 years. I don't think enough time has passed till I'd ever want to go and hear another CCM "superstar."

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As the Happy Moments Roll,

Pastor Andrew

It is so hard to believe that anyone could really think that only the words determine the character of music, that no style of music is evil in and of itself. Everyone knows about mood music - the soothing stuff they play at the dentist's office to relax the nervous patients, the ominous stuff they play at the "danger" points in movies, etc. But if you try to share these facts with some people, they refuse to believe any of it.

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The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.

It is obvious that music affects the body. Anyone that denies that is foolish. However ALL music does affect us, whether for better or worse. And Linda, what you have posted is excellent material, and it describes to me at least, music that puts you in an almost trance like state and moves you to do thinfs you wouldn't normally do, or a drunken state as Pastor Andrew described it. However, that still leaves a wide gulf between music that is generally accepted in Christian circles and music that is considered bad. For example, Ray Boltz is considered a contemporary christian musician. I enjoy some of his songs and some I can do without, but none of them alter my normal behaviour in an extreme or negative way. Contemporary suimply means current, and EGW encouraged us to always be developing new songs, keeping our experience fresh.
David's Worship in Song --Daily revelations of the character and majesty of his Creator filled the young poet's heart with adoration and rejoicing. In contemplation of God and His works, the faculties of David's mind and heart were developing and strengthening for the work of his after-life. He was daily coming into a more intimate communion with God. His mind was constantly penetrating into new depths for fresh themes to inspire his song and to wake the music of his harp. The rich melody of his voice, poured out upon the air, echoed from the hills as if responsive to the rejoicing of the angels' songs in heaven.--PP 642.
Manuscript Releases Volume Twenty, page 269, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: The Need for Simplicity and Consecration in School Work
We need to prepare the way of the Lord, according to the light given. We need to have a new experience. We need to offer praise and thanksgiving to God, not only in the congregation, but in the home life. Let the voices of His heritage be heard recounting the works of the Lord. Speak of His goodness, tell of His power. Whom have I in heaven but Thee? And there is none upon the earth that I desire but Thee. We need more songs of praise and less murmuring and complaining.

There are more such quotes and better ones but I haven't the time. My point is that music is vitally important and because it is new does not make it bad, nor does the instrument on which it is played make it bad. Perhaps, "By their fruits you shall know them is a better guideline"

I agree with you Dan. Many of today's musicians, such as Ray Boltz, have some good music and some that is not so good. Personally, I sing a lot of Ray Boltz's music for church, because he expresses so well what I feel. My favorite is "I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb," and the first time I sang it, a conference official who was our guest speaker that day, was so moved by the sentiment of the song that he spent the first several minutes of his sermon time telling what it meant to him, and he ended his sermon by saying, "I want to pledge allegiance to the Lamb."

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The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.

Praise the Lord Cathy. I have found that songs are really powerful when they mean something personal to the singer. Keep praising God with the talent He has given.

Wow guys! talk about shooting fish in a barrol. put some sheet music in and see what happens. You know there are rules God himself told us to fallow from the bible about Sabbith. I do know that I love the church I first came to when I became adventist, one thing that I hated but now hold dear when I visit is the piano player. she has a VERY firm touch on those keys. I feel like i'm at home when I hear her. thats her style, it isn't upbeat, just firm. If there is toe tapping music, or rhythmicly inclined music we run the risc in church of falling into our feelings, and satin loves us to depend on our feelings. It really depends on what is going on at church. if we are in the sanctuary, we should be more reverent. if we are studying bible certainly lets have respect. If we are having a tallent show, we can get more respectfully uplifting being carefull not to join the secular world of course. Music can show grief, respect, as well as joy and jubilation, but when the music gets us to loose ourselves, our thoughts go to places it wouldn't normally and we loose ourselves than we know it isn't right. But thats where we have to also be carefull about judging. if someone is enjoying a rendition of amazing grace by elvis prescily, thats for God to decide not us. if we are listning to amazing grace by ac/dc, than I think that may be safe to say we should truly pray before condeming the act:}, but you get my meaning I hope. If it feels wrong, pray and study about it and stay out of that situation untill you get an answer from God, not just what feels right or seems right.

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
We are not to mix the things of Christ with the things of Belial [the devil], a prime example is the mixture of 'Godly' lyrics with the music of the synagouge of satan.

Some things are better left alone, this is one.
It worms it's way into your mind and becomes a part of you.

We need to be concetrating on the word of God and the life and example of Jesus the Christ.

By beholding, we become.
A simple fact that has proven out time after time.

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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8