This link may generate some discussion!


http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0300whatson/0800events/page.cfm?objectid=12647919&method=full&siteid=50061

LK

Soundless music seems to fall into the realm of subliminal messages. Some say neither is of any use because we can't consciously precevie them, but undeniably companies spent big money "just in case."

I'm sure record industry folk have known for quite a while about "soundless music."

Very interesting. It would also be interesting to see the effects of ultra-high frequency that is out of the human hearing range on the other end of the sound spectrum.

Various animals communicate outside of our hearing range. Elephants are known to "talk" to each other over great distances using very low frequency sound. And there is some indication of emotional expression among elephants, what appears to be mourning, rage, etc. It is also understood that many animals can sense our emotion whether or not we overtly express it in human terms. From personal experience and observation I know that dogs and horses sense fear, confidence, happiness, etc. in humans and will respond accordingly, even when such emotion may not be easily observable by most people. Perhaps we communicate our emotions in "soundless music" to them. A fearful person's "quaking in their boots" may give off low frequency vibrations detectable by animals.

Anyway, I find it interesting that emotional response to this "soundless music" is not consistent in evoking the same type of emotional response. At appears to act more as an intensifier of an individual's present emotion. It is also interesting that organ music is recognized as using such low frequency sound which could explain emotional responses to certain church music used as altar-call background music, etc. Actually this seems consistent with the effect of bass in music that serves to intensify the music, underlining and accentuate the harmony of the other parts.

Given the wide variety of taste in music and the attending emotion surrounding one's personal preferences in music, this provides an objective indication by using subliminal sound that emotion and sound are closely linked and music as organized sound is the language of the heart or emotions. The intensity of modern music and its use of a strong bass line accounts of the intensity of the relative emotions it evokes in fans and foes alike. But remember that this is nothing new - remember a bit of Bach on the pipe organ.

Tom

Enjoy the 8 or less cycles / second from the bass on these organs.

http://gryphone.home.mindspring.com/largest.html

Eat your heart out bach.


By the way, in the late 60's I read of experiments with hyposonics. If I remember right - around the 8 cycles per second range, it could produce an resonance of the same frequency (8 cycles/sec) in objects, buildings, people etc. This is the principle of why soldiers break stride & cadence crossing bridges. A corresponding resonance builds up in the bridge, capaple of damage or destruction of the bridge if strong enough.

In this article found during a Google search - "eight cycles per second" is the assertion that subsonic frequencies exist in CCM and are a part of Rock music.

http://www.present-truth.org/Gospel-Rock.htm

Who could induce qualified technitians to analyze live or recorded music with equipment & software like "SoundForge" style audio pre & post production software & give an independent analysis of old fashioned SDA Hymns, CCM, and Rock music ? I do not have the sofware or I would just out of scientific curiosity . Be nice to have subjects wired up full 10/20 eeg hookup & sleep study monitoring equipment listening with headphones to a three types of music - in a lit room, and then a dark room, with B/P(non invasive blood pressure sensing equipment) & ECO2 (End Tidal CO2 sensing equipment.

Thank you for that URL, Ed.

And what is worse still is the soundless and loud music combined.

Yikes! When I first saw this discussion - I thought it was some kind of a joke. But how intensely interesting this is. It shows how evil CCM really is - - - like some of us have been telling us. (Claudia for example.)

I wonder if Diane Bish has played this Huge organ. I would bet that she knows about these super low frequencies. If anyone hasnt heard her play - they havent heard organ music.

As a final note can you imagine the wonderous music we will hear in heaven - where everything will be holy and pure?
--Ðøug

Ed told me about the article posted by Larry. I finally took the time to read it. Most interesting, so interesting that I decided to do a little research on infrasonics online.

There is an infrasound detector system worldwide, built for the purpose of detecting illegal nuclear testing. All explosions cause infrasonic waves, including meteors entering the earth's atmosphere. Scientists have begun looking at what these detectors are finding related to the weather. Even NOAA is doing research into infrasound and earthquakes, tornadoes, and volcanoes. A university in Texas with a detection device recorded infrasonic sounds from the space shuttle Columbia prior to and during its breakup in February.

Some people and a lot of animals have always exhibited strange sensations and unusual behaviors just before and during some of these events. Could it be that they are sensing the infrasonic waves that are being generated before audible sounds can be detected by the human ear? If such sounds are being used in the manufacture of music, then it stands to reason that the producers are aware that it has an effect on the human body, and consequently, on the human mind.

Just to get an idea of infrasonic detection, here are a couple of websites. Infrasound Resource Guide and Listen Up! Infrasound Is Talking

Check this kids online tutorial out. Notice theatrical use of infrasound to affect your perceptions & emotions & physical feelings.

http://www.usoe.k12.ut.us/curr/science/core/6th/sciber6/SOUND/INTSOUND/introsnd.htm

http://www.usoe.k12.ut.us/curr/science/core/6th/sciber6/SOUND/PITCH/pitch.htm

http://www.explorescience.com/activities/activity_list.cfm?categoryID=3

http://www.explorescience.com/activities/Activity_page.cfm?ActivityID=44

http://www.explorescience.com/activities/activity_page.cfm?activityID=47

I read here and got interested & did more online checking. What I was used to calling hyposconics is actually called infrasound.

It seems that pipe organ designers / builders, have known about this for quite awhile & add or adapt tube(s) to add infrasonics to the bass end below the hearing range to make you both really feel the music & add a sense of awe.

But infrasconics is heard by animals and can also destroy people & solid objects & buildings & bridges & so on at the various ranges, pitches, amplitudes and so forth.

In fact there is something called the Taos Hum, which may involve infrasonics in it's frequency spectrums.

http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/hum/hum.html

http://www.earthpulse.com/science/taoshum.html

http://homepages.tesco.net/~John.Dawes2/arthur.htm

http://www.amasci.com/hum/bristol.html

[ May 11, 2003, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: Edward F Sutton ]

In fact Linda has downloaded quite a bit of sacred music in MP3 format and burns CD's for the house, car, friends etc. There is a group(Sentforth) that does "By the Rivers of Babylon". Which I like, but it is very short.

Well they also do "Today is the day of salvation." But it is definitly CCM. So after listening for a while (over and over) I find that after awhile I tune down or tune out the words and gravitate to the music and the physical sensations the music brings - and using the software equalizer - guess which range gives the most sensations & physical responces ?

The range that infrasonics dwell at(they are there @ lower ranges - Bass & below), all ranges of the equalizer probably allow them through because it may not be designed to filter them out.

But besides the other acoustics & the physiology involved, infrasconics adds to the list of tools to manipulate physiology, thought patterns & mental associations, and physical habit patterns and desires and emotions and along with the rest of the marketing sciences added in and - tuned to a fine art - create vast herds of "cash cows" from sound & light & electromagnetics. The actual concert & CD's & Music Video's (sound & light), TV - Internet - Movie advertizing (electromagnetics). All of which we become trained and conditioned to desire - then must have - buy & rebuy residual products & so on & so on - the industry feeds till (back then the flood came and washed them all away) or in our day the awakening comes via circumstances when the door is also already shut too.

The CCM Industry is just a religious front for the larger Music Industry @ large. It is just being "Purpose Driven" holding "seeker services" for a seeker market, in this case CCM buyers. If you don't buy their products or be part of the "global religion" which is developing that CCM fuels the physiologic sonic hightened "rave" experience for - the industry doesn't want to know you.

"You" and your salvation & walk with God via Scripture is not on this industry's adgenda, but your addictive process & $$$$ spent on it sure is.

I find that I can get an acoustic "high" relativley quickly with CCM, and and emotional "High" follows beside and / or with it. However it decreases my desire or ability to listen to God's voice and increases my ability / desire to listen to my emotions, and decrease the effectiveness and willingness to use the needed inhibitory processes and reason - in whatever circumstances that arise at a later time, untill I have slept it off.

Then the tendency is to desire a new auditory "sonic fix" of CCM as soon after awakening as possible, to get a "renewal" of this experience, along with the physical / mental responces that it creates. As an augnent to or usually a replacement for prayer, or depth of the prayer communion experience.

I am starting to recognize this process & recognize "withdrawal symptoms" from this song. While my remberance of the words is spotty, the organic not quite just mental rememberance of the music is absolute, but also physical.

I guess I am sentisized to the process by life history & that is why it has reoccured so rapidly. While it is not a comfortable process, it is good that through introspection, I am recognizing this. While immersing in this CCM song, the desire for introspection was silenced for the most part, not extinguished totaly - but rendered ineffective to the goals of introspection and thus increasing restlessness and burnout inside.

When you need to go deep, but persist in shallow, and the deep calling to deep won't let you rest, but shallow remains as far as you are willing to go, a strong underlying current of spiritual stress & tension is created.

Very interesting, Ed, especially the following:

quote:

---

Posted by Ed Sutton:
I find that I can get an acoustic "high" relativley quickly with CCM, and and emotional "High" follows beside and / or with it. However it decreases my desire or ability to listen to God's voice and increases my ability / desire to listen to my emotions, and decrease the effectiveness and willingness to use the needed inhibitory processes and reason - in whatever circumstances that arise at a later time, untill I have slept it off.

---

Could that be why there are so many people attending the Charasmatic type churches to get an emotional high our of it through their music?

Yup.

I had a more detailed answer, but the power flickered for the second time since on MSDAOL this afternoon & it's history.

It is the same brain chemical phenomenon as a weekend rave, but far less extreem. The spiritual ramifications are different too, unless the ravers are also the church goers too.

A lot of the questions and comments here are dealt with in my new book from Review & Herald, "Joyful Noise: A Sensible Look at Christian Music."

I'm not sure of the usefulness of infrasound if it makes the depressed more depressed and the happy more happy. Inconsitency of effect would not be a selling point, any more than a drug company would market a drug proven to make the depressed feel even more depressed. Also, given that few speakers on the market today play notes below the spectrum of human hearing, putting something like this on a CD would be a waste of effort. Be careful that you don't get caught up in another conspiracy theory, like the ludicrous "back masking" stories that were so popular in the 70s and that my daughter is still being taught in academy. (I recently listened to a set of tapes of poems read by the great Christian author J. R. R. Tolkien. The last tape sounded very weird. I thought at first that he was speaking in Finnish. It turned out that somehow the entire tape had been recorded backwards. I couldn't understand a word of it, but I immediately went out and bought a new car--no, that's just a joke-it had no effect at all except annoyance at not being able to hear it properly.)

I remember reading about the Army experiments with sound weapons. My recollection is that in order to generate a sound low enough to cause damage, the speaker cone had to be the height of an eight story building. Indeed, I think they tried using an elevator shaft for this purpose.

There are some pipe organs that generate notes so low that we almost feel them rather than hear them. They are so low that most of us can't tell for sure what pitch the notes are at. They are thought to fill listeners with feelings of awe and terror at God's presence, but they sure get in the way of vigorous hymnsinging.

I thought I would bring this interesting and informative topic to the top of the list as I feel there is probably more that can be discussed here.

I am not up on "soundless" music but I have a question that may be related to this topic. It seems I remember hearing in the news concerning what happened at Waco, Texas that the BATF used rock music to try to irritate Koresh and his followers (before they started their buildings on fire) but I am wondering if they might have used this "soundless" music? Anyone know about this?