When I read the passages below I can see that God doesnt want for us to unify upon theological errors. Just as the Bible says to be joyful but not silly or jesting... there too is a huge difference between singing in the Spirit and stooping to the level that we were already warned of taking place in these last days, such as dancing and drums, etc.

I dont think it is right to use the Spirit of Prophecy in such a way that you will draw out some passages and apply them in an unfitting manner... giving them a meaning that were never intended by the Author. We can know that if we read all of what Sister White said on a subject instead of taking one idea we like and them trying to gather up verses that seem to support our ideas while ignoring those that don't.

Claudia

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Our High Calling, page 329, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: The Foundation of All True Peace
Jesus prayed that His followers might be one; but we are not to sacrifice the truth in order to secure this union, for we are to be sanctified through the truth. Here is the foundation of all true peace. Human wisdom would change all this, pronouncing this basis too narrow. Men would try to effect unity through concession to popular opinion, through compromise with the world, a sacrifice of vital godliness. But truth is God's basis for the unity of His people.

Sanctification, unity, peace--all are to be ours through the truth. The belief of the truth does not make men gloomy and uncomfortable. If you have peace in Christ, His precious blood is speaking pardon and hope to your soul. Yes, more, you have joy in the Holy Spirit, through accepting the precious promises. Jesus says, "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33. Therefore the world shall not overcome you if you believe in Me. It is a world that I have conquered. Because I have overcome, if you believe in Me, you shall overcome. . . .


Steps to Christ, page 120, paragraph 4
Chapter Title: Rejoicing in the Lord
Our Saviour was deeply serious and intensely in earnest, but never gloomy or morose. The life of those who imitate Him will be full of earnest purpose; they will have a deep sense of personal responsibility. Levity will be repressed; there will be no boisterous merriment, no rude jesting; but the religion of Jesus gives peace like a river. It does not quench the light of joy; it does not restrain cheerfulness nor cloud the sunny, smiling face. Christ came not to be ministered unto but to minister; and when His love reigns in the heart, we shall follow His example.

The Youth's Instructor, February 15, 1894, paragraph 3
Article Title: Words to the Young, Part IV
There must be a cleansing of the hands, and a purifying of the double mind. "Be afflicted, and weep and mourn: let your laughter be turned into mourning, and your joy into heaviness." It is right to be cheerful, and even joyful. It is right to cultivate cheerfulness of spirit through sanctification of the truth; but it is not right to indulge in foolish jesting and joking, in lightness and trifling, in words of criticism and condemnation of others. Those who observe such persons who make a profession of religion, know that they are deceived. They know that the hands of such professors need to be cleansed, their hearts need to be purified. They need to experience genuine repentance for sin. What have they to mourn over? They should mourn over their inclination to sin, over the danger they are in from inward corruption and from outward temptation. They should be afraid because they have so feeble a sense of the sinfulness of sin, and so little idea of what constitutes sin.

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Just to add to this, we are in the time of the Cleansing of the Sanctuary, the time of Judgment. Seriousness is in order, especially in God's House.

You are so right on this Claudia.

If the Holy Spirit is with a church meeting in fact, no production, no show actually functions. All are in awed reverence and deep seriousness of love and wonder. Nothing is faked; nothing is false. All know that God is walking among them, the human glitter and razz-ma-tazz falls limply from their hands.

I have seen it happen. I yearn for this event to repeat each Sabbath.

"...we are in the time of the Cleansing of the Sanctuary, the time of Judgment. Seriousness is in order, especially in God's House."

It's an unpopular message, but oh, soooo true!

I just wanted to add something to what I said in my above post.

I dont know about the rest of you but I have been very interested in watching and following all of the State Funeral of President Ronald Reagan on TV... on the CNN Channel.

The complete respect, reverence and even the precision and formality that was demonstrated toward him through this entire thing inspires real respect and amazement in those who watched, unless you were made of stone. I cried over and over again this past week because of the respectful way this funeral was conducted... it really moved me to tears. You dont have to have a casual party atmosphere in order to feel genuine emotion.

People sometimes think they have to act as if they were at a casual "let it all hang out" party when they are at Church, at God's house, and that this somehow demonstrates their "love" for God. But I think it eventually has just the opposite effect... in causing irreverence towards God... and then finally making one lose all respect for God and for what Jesus has done for us.

When I say "formality" I do not mean a formality as in rigidity of heart... I am talking about the appropriate awe we ought to feel when in the presence of God. If people realize the respect and formality they ought to have at President Ronald Reagan's funeral, you would think we could show even more respect when at Church in God's house.

Even Ronald Reagan who had respect for God and for his country, refused to take off his suit coat when in the White House, no matter even if it was hot and uncomfortable. When anyone tried to get him to do that he would say "oh NO, I would never do that here".

Even though the man was not of our religious denominational beliefs, this man knew how to show proper respect for where he was at.

I am sorry but I believe that in our hearts we all know how we are to behave in the House of God... we can all read the passage below and we all know what it means. It doesnt mean we need to go set up some drums and have a party and belt out some song like we are at a night club. Sometimes honestly I feel as if it were almost an insult to even answer to these things when discussed. I honestly have a problem with even believing that anyone could honestly question this matter. We all know what is right...

Testimonies for the Church Volume Five, page 491, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Behavior in the House of God
"From the sacredness which was attached to the earthly sanctuary, Christians may learn how they should regard the place where the Lord meets with His people. There has been a great change, not for the better, but for the worse, in the habits and customs of the people in reference to religious worship. The precious, the sacred, things which connect us with God are fast losing their hold upon our minds and hearts, and are being brought down to the level of common things. The reverence which the people had anciently for the sanctuary where they met with God in sacred service has largely passed away. Nevertheless, God Himself gave the order of His service, exalting it high above everything of a temporal nature....

When the worshipers enter the place of meeting, they should do so with decorum, passing quietly to their seats. If there is a stove in the room, it is not proper to crowd about it in an indolent, careless attitude. Common talking, whispering, and laughing should not be permitted in the house of worship, either before or after the service. Ardent, active piety should characterize the worshipers.

If some have to wait a few minutes before the meeting begins, let them maintain a true spirit of devotion by silent meditation, keeping the heart uplifted to God in prayer that the service may be of special benefit to their own hearts and lead to the conviction and conversion of other souls. They should remember that heavenly messengers are in the house. We all lose much sweet communion with God by our restlessness, by not encouraging moments of reflection and prayer. The spiritual condition needs to be often reviewed and the mind and heart drawn toward the Sun of Righteousness. If when the people come into the house of worship, they have genuine reverence for the Lord and bear in mind that they are in His presence, there will be a sweet eloquence in silence. The whispering and laughing and talking which might be without sin in a common business place should find no sanction in the house where God is worshiped. The mind should be prepared to hear the word of God, that it may have due weight and suitably impress the heart."

The express purpose of this topic is to discuss a particular book. Please confine your comments to the book itself and what it has to say. The subject of the last four posts, wonderful though they may be, are off in some other direction. If you haven't read the book, please refrain from further comment or if you have a burden to express yourself, start another topic about what you want to discuss.

Thanks,

Tom

I agree with Tom.

The last few posts were interesting, however, they are off topic, therefore, they should either be reposted in a relevant existing topic, or create a new topic and post them there.

Please do not post any further here off topic.

Daryl,

Quite some time ago you indicated that you had Ed Christian's book and that you planned to read it. Have you finished it yet?

Tom

REBECCA SAINT JAMES is going to be in FREDERICTON, New Brunswick (right here in the Maritimes!) on Saturday evening JULY 31! This is one of only 2 Canadian stops for all of 2004! The only other location will be at the Calgary Stampede! Check out her web page for further info! This is sure to be a memorable evening of worship as Rebecca presents an evening of Praise and Worship with her CCM style that presents nothing but the love of Christ!

In Samuele Bacchiocchi's Endtime Issues #155, there is a critique on the book "Joyful Noise". This may be right, or may not be, but is directly related to the topic so....

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BOOK REVIEW
Ed Christian, Joyful Noise: A Sensible Look at Christian Music,
Hagerstown: Review and Herald Publishing Association, 2003, 173 pp. $12.99.

(Editorial Note. The reviewer, Wolfgang H. M. Stefani, is an Australian musician, scholar, pastor. He has earned graduate degrees in music, and a Ph.D. in Religious Education from Andrews University in 1993. His dissertation deals with "The Concept of God and Sacred Music Style." Stefani has taught church music,hymnology, philosophy of music, and religious education at the graduate and undergraduate levels. He has served for 14 years as a church musician: organist, pianist, minister of music, church music coordinator, and choir director. He has presented over 60 seminars on music in the United States, Mexico, Japan, Australia, France, Britain, Poland, and Scandinavia.)

Publication of Joyful Noise by Ed Christian has again raised the profile of the music debate.This is always valuable because there is still much to think through and learn about Christian discipleship in this complex arena of life. Joyful Noise is substantially a reworked collection of pre-published articles centered on criticism of Samuele Bacchiocchi's book, The Christian and Rock Music. It purports to be "a sensible look at Christian music" in order to bring healing on a sensitive subject and help alienated young people.

Christian's appeal that music should not become a stumbling block to unity and that all music must be put on the same evaluation table is commendable. His comments on MTV videos, entertainment, applause, the need for worship music to be more congregational than "special music;" why hymns have been rejected, and the need for good song leaders are timely. The final sixty or so pages of the book present as genuine reflections from the heart of someone with a pastoral concern for the church.

However, the central thrust and apparent purpose of the publication needs greater depth and exhibits a cutting tone and weak arguments. Those who believe that Christian decision-making in music is largely a matter of subjective taste-that "any style of music can be used to convey a Christian message" and that "God approves and blesses, no matter what the style of music" as long as the lyrics support faith and Christian unity is not threatened-will find this book a welcome confirmation of their viewpoint.

However, readers who sense the subject's complexities and who recognize the need for something more objective will be disappointed with the lack of penetrating analysis on issues grappled with for centuries. Some key concerns are as follows:

By framing his discussion as a reaction to Bacchiocchi's book, the author ignores the debate's wider context that transcends Christian denominational boundaries, world religions, cultures, and centuries. If resolution to the music debate was as simple as Christian suggests, why wasn't it resolved generations ago? Christian gives the impression that the music argument is essentially a battle between elitist Western classical music lovers and those who are pro-CCM (Contemporary Christian Music). This issue, however, is much more complex.

Christian's assertion that biblical references to music are "less useful than we think" while at the same time ignoring Ellen White materials is both surprising and unwarranted. In contrast, his emphasis on the so-called biblical imperatives of enthusiasm, clapping, and dancing leave one wondering what was so wrong with the Holy Flesh Movement in Indiana in 1900 which was opposed by Ellen White.

A disappointing feature of Joyful Noise is its cutting criticism of scholars in different fields of expertise. For example, the author caricatures Calvin M. Johansson's position by painting an imaginary picture of his preferred church as "dead or dying." In reality, Johansson is a professor at an Assemblies of God college and is known for his writings about Charismatic worship music practices.

Throughout the book, Christian's constant mantra is that musical style is neutral. He simply asserts this, never offering evidence for it. Although he admits that, "there are some styles . . . that even without words are dark and menacing," he keeps affirming that "God can be praised in every style." Ultimately, what Christian is saying seems to boil down to doing whatever you feel is right for you. Such subjectivity is not really helpful when people sense the need for guidance. Undoubtedly, people
come to know God through a variety of music styles, but God still holds his servants responsible for how they have represented him.

If we adopt Christian's view that all styles of music are equally valid and that congregational offence is a significant arbiter of what ought to be done in a worship setting, we actually legitimize the pretext for people to worship with whatever music they find congenial and to form special interest worship groups based on similarity of musical taste. By this reasoning, rather than nurturing unity, music could become an even more divisive force within our church.

Although Christian speaks about his vision in terms of church relations and worship which is laudable, he fails to enunciate a musical vision -a vision of what "could be" musically in the church. His music philosophy is thoroughly pragmatic. It does not necessitate or call for Adventist musicians, as part of our wholistic message, to make a unique artistic contribution as a singular aesthetic witness to the world.

The fate of our young people is far too important to let our music drift randomly with no distinctive vision of what "ought to be" to guide it. Musically, as in all other arenas of life, P.T. Forsyth's comment is pertinent: "Unless there is within us that which is above us we shall soon yield to that which is around us." I believe that there are young people within our ranks who, with their youthful idealism, enthusiasm, and God-given talent, would rise to the challenge of a viable alternative musical vision. Sadly, Joyful Noise misses that opportunity.

What is curiously absent from Bacchiocchi's editorial note at the begining of the book review by Stefani is that Stefani himself was a significant contributor to Bacchiocchi's own book. This tends to cast a different hue to the color of what would otherwise appear to be Stefani's objective lament that, "A disappointing feature of Joyful Noise is its cutting criticism of scholars in different fields of expertise."

Admittedly, Christian describes the chapter written by Stefani as "not objectionable" but perhaps most "cutting" to Stefani was that Christian had very little at all to say about Stefani's chapter. But as a significant contributor to and resource for Bacchiocchi's book, true reviewer objectivity seems in question and one is tempted to speculate that Bacchiocchi's choice of Stefani to do this "book review" for his own newsletter was a carefully calculated counter-defense of his own book because all Christian had to say about Stefani's contribution was that his chapter was "not objectionable" and that it had "more reputable sources than the other authors." That somewhat bland accolade of one of Bacchiocchi's strongest resources for his book was perhaps more of a left-handed compliment and difficult to take by such a notorious polemicist as Bacchiocchi. Bacchiocchi's own chapters and ideas in his book receive the most criticism and careful attention by Christian in Joyful Noise. But most telling of Bacchiocchi's motivation and attitude toward constructive crticism of his writing is his own correspondence with Christian on the topic. Christian shared with Bacchiocchi an early version of his critique of Bacchiocchi's book. Bacchiocchi refused to even read it.

I guess the question remains, Daniel, will you read the book yourself and judge it for yourself? What was EGW's statement about being mere reflectors of other men's thought?

Tom