I am curious where everyone goes to church and what kind of music they hear in the church services. I'm not talking about Sabbath School but the Church service. Perhaps you could list the name of your church and if you sing contemporary christian music,out of the hymnal or both. Do you use the organ or a band (guitar-drums-etc) for your church service or some other instrument?

1. My Church is called "Touchet SDA Church"
2. We sing out of the hymnal only for Church services
3. Our Church uses primarily the organ for their services but also the piano with the opening and closing hymns.

Hmmm, no one here seems to go to church, or perhaps they have no music in their church?

Perhaps I should have listed this as a poll but I haven't done that before and figured this was just as good.

I go to the Washington, NC SDA Church; we sing from the hymnal only; and use the piano when someone's present who knows how to play it! There is no organ.

Every now and then the pastor will sing an appropriate contemporary song accompanying himself with acoustic guitar.

Here is what we do:

1. Our Church is called the "Fredericton SDA Church."

2. We sing mainly out of the hymnal for Church services, although we may sing a song now and then from a type of a Songs of Praise book that contains songs such as "Majesty."

3. Our Church uses primarily the piano for our when a person who knows how to play is present, otherwise, we use the CD Hymnals CDs or sing without any accompaniment. On very rare occasions we use the guitar.

Thanks John and Daryl for replying. Daryl, I love hearing a well played guitar for accompaniment of the hymns and songs--for a nice change occasionally.

I still enjoy a well played organist or pianist also. At our church we only have about 40 members who show up and we have 5 excellent pianists and 3 good organists!! So strange to have so many at one little church. But it is the only church in the area that is still using hymns only.

We live in a large SDA area and many of the other churches use either a combination of contemporary hymns with the hymnal or no hymnal at all.

But I enjoy other instruments as well as long as they are played well. Nothing worse than someone trying to accompany a song that cannot play well.

I go to the Spencerville Church in Silver Spring, Maryland. We have a very traditional service with the pipe organ accompanying congregational hymns from the hymnal. We also have a very good choir that sings a couple times a month. The choir director is James Bingham who has several hymns in the SDA Hymnal.

Tom

I attend the Sacramento Central SDA Church in Sacramento, CA

We use the church hymnal to sing from for the Church Service and use both piano and the organ.

Thank you Avalee and Tom for answering this question. Both your churches sound wonderful. Tom you are very fortunate to be able to attend a church with such talent!! It sounds like a very large church perhaps.

Avalee, isn't your church where Pastor Doug Batchelor is the Pastor? Wonder if I've ever seen you on TV? on 3ABN we hear the SS lessons on Thursday night and Sabbath mornings!

Tom--I feel like your "avatar" with the 'eye' looking at me like it wants to bite my head off just a bit intimidating and downright scary ..too bad you can't find one that is a bit more dignified - you know, something that looks just a bit more attorney-ish? Maybe just a wee bit more friendly-like?

Debbie,

Perhaps it would be well to allow one to define their own individuality themselves! Actually, if you knew who that picture portrayed you would understand that it is clearly not lacking in dignity. I see it as a serious picture. Since some were offended by my less serious ID, I thought being serious would be more acceptable way to present myself.

Would you prefer an actual picture of myself? How about this one? I hope this is not too scary, since it is really me!

Tom

[ January 25, 2005, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Tom Wetmore ]

Hi, I attend the Moncton Seventh-day Adventist Church in "Moncton" New Brunswick (Canada eh?)
Our church has about 50-70 attending members (about 120 on the books but that should be a whole other topic)

About half of our services use the SDA hymnal with the organ and piano. This was 100% of the time up until about 2 years ago when a singing group formed to lead the church in Praise service and the at the request of the board they now lead out in about 2 Sabbath services per month. This group uses the overhead projector with Powerpoint conected to one of the sound booth computers. We project on the front and back of the sanctuary so the singers up front don't need books either. The instruments used are the guitar and piano. (yikes we even have the guitar "plugged in") It is a contemporary style but the group is very responsible and prayerful in the songs that are chosen for worship. Some of the songs are from the "old hymnal" some from the "new hymnal" but most are from various contemporary artists.


Sabbath School: This new year we began a very different type of Sabbath School opening program.
Up until now there have been abou 5-15 in attendence for Sabbath School opening. The format was adult oriented. Sing 2 hymns,welcome, prayer, sing 2 hymns (with piano), read mission story, seperate for classes.
This has been changed to have the Children also present in the Sanctuary for the Sabbath School opening program.
The songs are set for young children (the adults have expressed their appreciation for these "camp songs") It is like bringing "Camp Meeting" to our home church. The children have an active role in the program with prayer, explaining the mission story by telling the story not reading it (they prepare all week for this and they take turns "wanting" to do it!) "Bible quizzes" and various oral Bible games being used (about 10-15 minutes) then there is a "transitional song" the name escapes me right now, but it is a very peaceful and worshipful piece. Then we all seperate for our study groups.

This past week we had 42 present at 9:25am, normally there would be about 5-10 present at this time (including the children)
So please pray that the Adults BUT esspecially the Children will want and continue to be "early for Sabbath School"

Tom, I'd rather see this picture than the last one and will reserve my comments about it for present.

Daniel, you have an interesting church service. I like having young people involved. I don't mind a (non plugged in) guitar occasionally but much of your type of church service I would not be comfortable in.

Ah Debbie, I'm disappointed that you are being so reserved about my fine portraiture of myself! Perhaps this one will inspire you to enthusiastic and flattering compliments...

By the way, were you at all surprised that I attend a church with such a conservatively traditional music format? And you should know tht here in the Washington, DC region we have many choices of SDA churches to attend, a number of which have good rousing praise services with a full range of contemporary instruments accompanying them. I say this only so you know that I do have a choice. I do feel sorry for those people who are stuck in church where there are no other SDA churches nearby from which to choose if they are not comfortable with what is happening at their church. But that goes beyond just music too.

Tom

Tom, I think you would be better off to go back to the artist--Rembrandt? Picasso? It was the self portrait but can't remember which... This picture is far worse than any you've had so far!!
How about a picture that reflects the way you think! That might be a good idea...

I'm not totally surprised at the church you attend. I enjoy a good quality of music too. However, what I enjoy more is a present truth filled sermon. I'm sure you have the best of both worlds in your church.

Debbie: I would be interested to understand why you would be uncomfortable at the Moncton SDA Church service.

We used to have hymns for every song Sabbath School and Church.

I have stated before..."On seperate occassions with 2 different friends (both totally blind) they each asked the same question durring the "Praise service" (between Sabbath School and Church) "Daniel, has someone passed away in your church this past week?" They asked this because of the somber way that the songs were played on the church organ. I then asked the organist about the tempo, and style of which the songs were played in. I was told by this very well musically educated musician, that the songs were played as they were written in our hymnal...
So I ask: If we a re to worship God in "SPIRIT and in TRUTH" How is it not acceptable to the Lord and a joy for His people to worship in a "Campmeeting" format?

Ah Debbie, now I feel insulted, becuase that is actually a picture of me! I think it does reflect the way I think... Eyes wide open... An appropriately serious expression on my face... A prodigious nose for sniffing out foolishness... And I think so hard it blew the hair right off the top of my head! But for you, I will change to my favorite picture of myself. So what do you think?

As for my church, you are right, we do have a great pastoral staff, so we get good sermons. We also have a variety of small group and activity options and a truly great K-12 day academy. It is an advantage of being in a larger church. However, with all the rest, if the music was good quality contemporary music, I would be just as content with my church. But since most of the members probably would prefer to keep the music traditional/classical, there is really no need to do anything different. People can go elsewhere to fill that need if they feel strongly about it. I like a very wide range of music styles, so I can be happy with most any format. The youth at our church are given considerable latitude to have music and a worship style that fits their tastes and needs. The youth leaders sponsor groups going to contemporary music festivals and concerts and the Friday evening youth program often has local contemporary Christian musicians, some from our church, to have the featured music.

Tom

Tom, I think you are enjoying some artistic fun with your computer, changing a picture to make it look BAD!! Now tell the truth and nothing but the truth here!!! Are you guilty as charged?

How about just a normal nice picture. I'm sure everyone would think that would be appropriate. However it just occurred to me you are not the norm (notice I didn't say "not normal!") - I'm back to the picture of the self-portrait of the artist--what's his name?? Or even the pumpkin if necessary but these others must go!!

Daniel, I will answer your questions a little later tonight.

[ January 28, 2005, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: debbie ]

The biggest difference for the church service when it comes to music is not which kind of music it is but wether it is played and sung with life. Is the song sung just because its what has always been sung or just because it is the newest song released but without any engagement, then it will kill and bury any service. If there is life in the mucisian/s and in the congregation when the song is sung, then again it does not matter so much how old or who wrote it. Ive seen the ironic situation where the old hymnal that was used before the present one was being insisted upon leaving much of the congregation bewildered as to the words and tunes, this only because it was "the old sda hymnal". A simple question of why generated contempt as to how such a question could be asked. Oh well, such things happend sometimes...

/Thomas

I go to the New Carlisle SDA Church in New Carlisle OH. When I first came to New Carlisle we used to hire an organist (from another denomination) for our services it was nice to have the live organist however it's a bit hypocritical for us to refuse to work on the Sabbath then hire someone to play for us. So we found an alternative. The music from the hymnal can be purchased on 30+ CD's one channel is piano the other organ. we combine the two to get both. The only problems we encounter are when the individual running the sound system hits the wrong button or program's in the wrong song. Other than that it's very nice. Not as good as a live organist or pianist but since we have nobody that plays either this works out well and we are not causing someone else to work on the Sabbath. Now some may think we lost an opportunity to witness but she did this for many years and when not playing sat in the second row doing crossword puzzles or reading books and magazines.

As I said the CD's work well. In order to make things easier we have a CD player that holds 100 CD's and you can program the player as to which disc and which track you want and in what order.

Have a Blessed Sabbath.
Chris

IMO there are other doubts one can have about a "christian" who does crossword puzzles during church service...

/Thomas

Debbie,
We attend the Montrose Seventh-day Adventist Church, in Colorado. Our music for church service comes from the hymnal and is accompanied by the organ and/or piano. Sometimes it is a bit too somber, depends upon the musician. We use a song leader(s), but they don't always try to enthuse the congregation to sing from the heart. Overall, it is satisfactory.

Murian

I'm a member of the College Place Village SDA church, in College Place, Washington, USA. The total membership of our church is about 1,850, but has only an average attendance of about 600 people per Sabbath, split between two services. The worship services are eclectic, in the hope that everyone, from whatever their backround and musical tastes, will experience true worship. My wife is the Music Director, and she and the pastor are doing their best to get as many members involved is sharing their musical gifts. I would say that overall, the music would be on the conservative side when compared to other SDAs churches of similar size in the NAD.

Brooks

I go to a small church in Lawrence KS. We sing from the hymnal during church services. In Sabbath School we sometimes sing from the Songs of Praise book.

We use an upright piano and small electric organ to accompany. We used to have a guitar at times, but the guitarist is going to another church.

Sometimes for special music a tape is used for accompaniment. Usually (almost always) the tapes are on the tame side (i.e. not with strong rhythmic beating from drums).

I'm kinda new here. I have been on the site, registered before, but it has been almost 4 years since I have been back, only because now I finally have a reliable computer. I go to the Fairplain SDA Church in Benton Harbor, MI. We sing only from the church hymnal, but I truly enjoy the special music, mostly because it is not from the hymnal. We have at least two pianists and 2 organists. I really don't know exactly how many of each we have. But we always have the piano and the organ for each song. One of the organists can get pretty creative with the songs, tho. Like when the kids go up front for the children's story, she plays this pretty song that almost seems like it should be in a music box. This particular one is related to "Uncle Arthur," although I don't remember exactly how. So, she would have to be pretty creative, right?

God bless!

Angie

Thomas, I think you have said it exactly right. Our music needs to have "life" in it--it should be sung with paying attention to the words and with happiness/exuberance.

Daniel R: I am not in favor of "games" in the church services. Perhaps during the children's SS time in their individual rooms but not during the adult SS time. However, I also do not care for boring "reading the mission story" blah type of services either. There is a balance.

The SS time is for missions primarily and it is possible to have very interesting "mission" stories, not just from the mission book put out each quarter, but from personal experiences, using video/pictures, etc. It is to be done in such a way as to animate people in the pews to help support or go as a missionary theirselves.

I am fully in support of having the children involved in the adult SS occasionally. They can recite their memorized memory verses or perhaps the older children can tell what local "missions" they are doing in the community.

However I am not in support of any type of drama, skits or pantomines, theatrics. I am also not in support of "dead" or boring services.

Chris: I'm not sure what to think about paying an organist on Sabbath. If your church felt it wasn't right, then I agree with their decision. To follow the tapes is an excellent idea too. But I hope you can find a good organist or pianist soon.

Murian, I couldn't agree with you more about the "somber" services. There is a place perhaps for that during the communion service or a funeral service. While we are to be reverent during the church services, we also should be happy, praising the Lord in song and one thing that a song leader can do while leading out in a hymn, have the men sing one verse alone, then the women. There are other things one can do to help the service to be a happy one--not highly syncopated and jazzy--but praiseful and happy.

Brooks: I have been to your church! It has lovely music from musicians who are well trained, including your wife!!

Tom E: I'm glad your accompaniment tapes are without a strong beat as this detracts from the words of the song!

Angie: WELCOME BACK!! We're so glad you are here.
I am glad you have an organist that plays appropriately for the children's story! What she/he is doing is playing it like a little children's song should be played. I do this too. It often will sound happy and sweet.

I also like other songs besides the hymnal. However I am very careful that they are not highly syncopated or jazzy or worldly sounding. There are some beautiful ones out there that I often play on the organ.

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to reply to everyone!

OK Debbie. How do you know that I am not editing these photos to actually improve the way I look? Which avatar would you guess looks the most like me? And what makes you think that they do not show my authentic self? I have only been showing you the many faces of my multi-dimensional self.

This new one is about as normal as it is going to get! And so I cannot be accused of wandering totally off-topic, you notice that it has a musical theme... Which raises another interesting church music idea. Would you be comfortable with the sax for church since it has become so distinctly associated with jazz music?

Tom

Hmmm, I do think I like this one better. You still look just a bit scary, but not quite so bad. So you think this one is the closest to how you really look?

What do I think about the sax used in the church services? I have no problem with them. I don't personally care so much for the tones they produce (not a favorite) but I've heard some very beautiful music played in church on the sax. Just because the instrument is played incorrectly doesn't mean the instrument is wrong--right?

excellent statement Debbie.
This applies to all instruments because an instrument can not be "born in sin", but it can be played in a sinful manner, just as it can be played in an appropriate manner.
It is nice to see that we can agree in a topic.

Daniel, it IS nice that there is something we can agree on. So now I am left wondering exactly what do we disagree on?

I attend the Tawas Seventh-Day Adventist church in Michigan, USA.
We also have the CD assortment as our piano players and organist moved away.
Here it is either feast or famine when it comes to 'live' music.
We use the hymnal for worship, but our Pastor plays guitar and he and his wife have sung special music with a slight country air. (The real stuff, not this nonsense they call country.)

Debbie, we sort of gave up looking instead we are paying for piano lessons for one of our members and hopefully she will someday become our pianist or organist.

Hi Chris....You know I still can not get use to seeing you with all that hair.

Hi all,
Currently, I attend the Alpena, MI church and we use the hymnal. Usually, when someone does special music, tho, it is not from the hymnal. There is one gentleman who plays guitar and sings and he has a kind of old style country/bluegrass flair to his music. I love it!@ Of course, that is what I grew up with. I have told this man that he should record some songs. He said he has thought about it, but it costs $$$$$ to be able to do it. Well, at least I can enjoy his voice for a couple more months anyway.

My only problem with people playing the piano or organ during church service is that they slow the songs down so bad that it feels like you are trudging thru it. I almost fall asleep halfway thru it! Think about #337, the faster moving version of "Redeemed." Now, at the right tempo, it should take about 1.5 minutes to sing the whole song (give or take about 15 seconds). Unfortunately, most of the time, we have people play it at a tempo that stretches the song to 2.5-3 minutes. So, it isn't just the songs we sing, it is how they are played.Singing the song too slow can be just as bad as singing it with a syncopated rhythm.

Now, since we are talking about the music sung/played in church, does anyone know what the Hinsdale, IL church is like? I have contacted one of the Hinsdale pastors and received a reply. This pastor forwarded my email the the Glen Ellyn, IL pastor, but I have yet to hear from him. Any info about the Hinsdale church would be greatly appreciated.

The music at Hinsdale is mixed, so it is hard to categorize. I'd say it is mostly traditional, with piano, organ, and a mix of hymns and praise songs. There are elements of the present day also such as video projector screens, some modern praise music with the words on the screens, etc. Music is very professional. Several piano players are career musicians, and a Rodgers organ rep? comes in as a guest and plays from time to time, etc. We have everything from occasional classical performances with a chamber orchestra to modern contemporary specials with a sound track. Oh, and I forgot to mention the choir & men's chorus who perform occasionally also. I suppose this is somewhat typical of bigger churches. Basically, were spoiled! Or really blessed, to be more politically correct.

There is also an afternoon service in the smaller chapel called 180 that is more contemporary, with a band including guitars, piano, a bass, & drums oriented somewhat more to the younger & seeker crowd. Several baptisms have occured as a result of this ministry over the past few years.

Susan wrote: "Singing the song too slow can be just as bad as singing it with a syncopated rhythm."

Susan, can you give us an example of what you mean by singing the song (you were referring to songs out of the SDA Hymnal) with a syncopated rhythm?

I'm curious whether contributors to this forum are dismayed by contemporary renditions of traditonal worship songs.

How about when Junior screeches out "Jesus Loves Me" on his pint-sized violin? Does that bother anyone?

I'm I "dismayed by contemporary renditions of traditonal worship songs"?

Not at all, I think whenever we can get people singing the old songs with their messages we are all blessed. New renditions will someday be the old traditional songs for our kids and grand kids.

It might bother my ears when junior screeches out Jesus Loves Me on a violin but it warms my heart to see him praising the Creator.

Redfog

I believe there should be a balance here concerning Junior "screeching" on his violin for the church service. The Spirit of Prophecy outlines basic principles for good music in our churches.

To "screech" is not one of them. Mrs. White speaks of learning how to sing and play instruments properly and nicely in the services. If junior has learned how to play his violin well and makes a small mistake, this can be overlooked.

One of the basic purposes of singing or playing an instrument well is to touch hearts so that they are more open to the influence of the Holy Spirit. This is why so often the special music is just before the Pastor gets up to preach. The music is to prepare hearts to be open to what God wants them to hear from His Word.

Karl,
First off, my name is not Susan, it is STEPHANIE. Big difference.

Second, I was commenting on something stated on page one about syncopated rhythms. One person said they are bad (not a direct quote, just paraphrasing) and I was just saying that singing too slow can have an undesirable effect as well. However, I have heard a song played on piano and drums, during a music seminar presented by my (then) pastor, Karl Tsatalbasidis. I believe the song was "Redeemed" and you would not have recognized it as the same song. However, I have heard three versions of that same song, sung. Two are in the hymnal, one I learned at a retreat. While most of the older generation (the people I know anyway) prefers the faster version in the hymnal (#337), I prefer the other two versions. The third one is a cross between the other two. It is hard to explain it. I hope there are some people on here who know what I'm saying. It would be so nice to have someone sing it & put it online so I could explain it better. Actually, it would be nice to have that for all the versions of the song...hehe

Anyway, I think I have rambled enough.... I hope you understand what I am trying to say.....

Stephanie, if you were quoting (paraphrasing) me about what I said about syncopation, I don't believe I said it was "bad." What I said was that "highly syncopated music" isn't the best for the church services. Maybe you were quoting someone else.??

If the music makes you want to move/dance, then it is best to leave it out of the church services. Some of the hymns have some syncopation but not the kind that makes you want to dance.

There are several types of syncopation and if a song has enough to make you desire to move to the beat or dance, then that is the type of music not appropriate to have in the church services. If one wants to listen to it at home, in the car or other places, that is a personal decision.

By the way Stephanie, sounds like you are feeling better after your surgery! Nice to hear you on here!!

To be honest, I don't feel like dancing or moving to the beat with a lot of songs...... even those that others believe should not be in worship service.....I guess it's just the way I am made up...However, there are some types that just should not be in the church service. I acknowledge that readily. I mean, if someone sings a song, and the background music is so loud, and I don't mean just that the PA system is turned up too high, that it detracts from the message of the lyrics, then it shouldn't be sung in church service. I admit, I listen to such groups as Petra, DC Talk, MercyMe, FFH, Point of Grace, Casting Crowns, etc. Some songs by each are suitable to sing as special music, but others should not be sung in worship service. I mean, I might sing "Who Am I" by Casting Crowns as special music, but I wouldn't sing their song "If We Are the Body" Why? Because I feel that the background music would not set the mind to the message the pastor has prepared. If you check out their website, you will know what I mean. Now, if I am cleaning the house, or driving down the road, yeah, I'll play the other song. It helps me stay busy and keeps me awake

About the comment on being "bad" music, I guess I didn't really mean bad, necessarily. I just meant that they are maybe, bad for the church service...... sound a little better? Just that too much of a beat, etc. doesn't belong in worship service... usually gives me a headache anyway.... hehehe

Thanks for the welcome back, Debbie! I AM feeling better!

Wow, Steph

I think we corporately need "If We Are the Body" a lot more than we do "Who am I?"

Our religion is far too self-centered.

I go to the Zanesville Seventh-day Adventist Chirch, not to be confused with the Zanesville Seventh-day Adventist Hillside Mission. We mostly sing out of the hymnal and the "He is Our Song" book. We have piano, and when we are realy blessed, we have an organ too.