Thomas mentioned in the clapping section of several instances where the Holy Spirit was demonstrated in Churches.

Has anyone on here studied this subject out and would you be willing to share your Bible verses and SOP quotes to show the difference between having the right Spirit in our church services and the wrong spirit?

This is a pretty wide field of study but if any of you have any thoughts on this, it would be appreciated.

It is impossible to estimate too largely the work that the Lord will accomplish through His proposed vesels in carrying out His mind and purpose. The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. . Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drama, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. II SM 36

But last January the Lord showed me that erroneous theories and methods would be brought into our camp meetings, and that the history of the past would be repeated. I felt greatly distressed. I was instructed to say that at these demonstrations demons in the form of men are present, working with all the ingenuity that Satan can employ to make the truth disgusting to sensible people; that the enemy was trying to arrange matters so that the camp meetings, which have been the means of bringing the truth of the third angel's message before multitudes, should lose their force and influence. II SM 37

Could not these "demonstrations" she speaks of include swaying with one's hands up in the air? Or perhaps a better way to say it is that it starts with the hands up in the air, along with the loud music she condemns, which leads to other "uncouth" things being demonstrated in our worship services.

[ April 28, 2005, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: debbie ]

Interesting Debbie. We see in the Bible where I believe Solomon stretched out his hands in prayer, and we see lifing of Holy Hands in th New Testament, and in other places in the Bible.
Perhaps this is the mixing of the Holy and commn to create a counterfeit revival of sorts? The distinctions are clear in the Bible and SOP that cover both ends.
What do you think?
God Bless,
Will

Debbie,

You will have to do better than that. This

quote:

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Could not these "demonstrations" she speaks of include swaying with one's hands up in the air? Or perhaps a better way to say it is that it starts with the hands up in the air, along with the loud music she condemns, which leads to other "uncouth" things being demonstrated in our worship services.

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is pure speculation and you know it. Now, either find a quote that acctually spells this out or admit defeat.

/Thomas

Debbie didn't make a statement, but simply asked a question, to which an intelligent answer would be acceptable.

I looked in the CD-rom of Ellen Whites writings and the only thing I could find about "raising hands" was in two places, LS 80 and 3T 273.

In the first book Life Sketches, Ellen White raises her hands in what looks like what I call an SOS prayer where she was in great need of help. It was not done in the Church Service, but looks like it was done in personal prayer.

In 3T 273, is the story of Elijah when he went in to let King Ahab know there would be no rain for 3 1/2 years. It says he (Elijah) raised his hands to Heaven as he spoke by the authority of the God of Heaven, etc. Again, this was not done in church.

I can't seem to find any examples of this being done in Church in the lifetime of EGW. However, it seems she does not condemn it if it is done personally and perhaps in dire straits.

However, it is in connection with prayer, not for the "outpouring" of the HS as the Pentecostals do in their worship services in an effort to speak in an unknown tongue.

But in 2 SM, she is speaking about "demonstrations" in connection with a church service or camp meeting. I have not yet figured out what those "demonstrations" are but will study this out as I have time.

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Quote: posted by Will

Perhaps this is the mixing of the Holy and commn to create a counterfeit revival of sorts?

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Interesting point. I frequent another forum that is made up of Christians from several denominations and someone posted a link to a video of a large Pentecostal-slain-in-the-spirit revival. So, I clicked the link to see what it was about.

There must have been several thousand people in the church. The first scenes were of some announcement type stuff. The cameras paned the audience, which looked like it was full of average people, all appearing sane and in control of their senses. After prayer, the band played, and as they played, people began to do the typical Charismatic stuff.

As I watched on, I just shook my head at the carryings on. It looked more and more like a frenzied free-for-all than any worship described in the Bible, save that of idols. People moaning, groaning, speaking in tongues, some raising hands, some rolling on the floor, etc. For a solid 20 minutes there was nothing but that scene of people completely throwing loose of their senses.

The woman who posted the link is of the variety who believes that everyone who has the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues. She described what she does to get herself in the “mood”. It starts with music and she even mentioned something to the effect of letting her mind go.

But, I can’t say that the raising of hands leads to this. I think it’s more letting one’s self get caught up with the emotion of the situation and letting the mind loose of rational control. The music, raising of hands, and mental abandonment—together lead to the type of carryings on that was in the video, but no one thing like raising hands and such, can do it without the mental abandonment.

I also don’t think that we should assume that when we see a fellow Adventist raising their hands, that they are necessarily throwing loose their senses…unless you see them fall to the floor speaking in tongues and carrying on so.

Jeff